Another example of Religion in Public Schools

[Boges]

http://www.citynews.ca/2017/01/10/debate-muslim-prayer-heats-pdsb-meeting/

Quote

A heated debate over religion in schools saw once person thrown from a meeting at the Peel District School Board (PDSB) on Tuesday.

A revised operational procedure, allowing Muslim students to use their own sermons during Friday prayers, was received by trustees — sparking debate.

While the Muslim community applauded the decision, many other community members said religion has no place in schools.

The Peel school board brought forth a new procedure in the fall requiring Muslim students to choose from six pre-written sermons during their Friday prayers — meaning students could only use sermons approved by the board.

The Peel Board said this was to create consistency across its schools.

However, students said it violated their right to religious freedom.

“It’s easier to relate to another student, another peer, who can speak to the circumstances of other students who are of the same age and of the same context,” one student explained. “That’s far more inspiring to students who are listening than someone who may be older and not understanding the same context as a teenager lives in, in regular life.”

So the Peel Board reversed its decision, allowing Muslim students to once again write their own sermons, and presented it to trustees on Tuesday. But not before several community members voiced their concerns about accommodating religion in schools.

I don't believe my public school every entertained school sanctioned Christian prayer. 

Also what if a school has no Muslim teachers to supervise? Will a quota be created for Muslim teachers to ensure that students aren't crafting sermons preaching radical Islam? 

I'm pretty sure any Christian student preaching Fundamentalist Evangelical doctrine would have been dept with pretty fast. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't forget the "safe space" card...being played here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/peel-board-muslim-prayer-policy-1.3930264

[H10]

Meh, I lean towards accomodation, peel has a huge muslim population, Canada is a multicultural mosaic, people have this right.

[kimmy]

I think my highschool might have had a Jesus club where students could go pray together in their spare time.  I believe there was also a Dungeons And Dragons club and an Anime club.

I don't see a problem, in principle, with students meeting together on school property at lunch hour or before class or after class to participate in shared interests, be that religious or non-religious.

However, I do think the possibility of radicalized mooks using the opportunity to preach to their peers is a reasonable concern. I think supervision is probably for the best.

 -k

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, kimmy said:

I think my highschool might have had a Jesus club where students could go pray together in their spare time.  I believe there was also a Dungeons And Dragons club and an Anime club.

I don't see a problem, in principle, with students meeting together on school property at lunch hour or before class or after class to participate in shared interests, be that religious or non-religious.

However, I do think the possibility of radicalized mooks using the opportunity to preach to their peers is a reasonable concern. I think supervision is probably for the best.

Exactly.

As far as I know, Christians don't have a religious requirement to pray during the days on weekdays.  I also agree the students should be doing the sermons during lunch/recess or before/after school and not during school time.  That's when any extracurricular activities are almost always done.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

So what do these "sermons" involve?  Every Friday a group of Muslims get together and one or more of them read a sermon out loud for each other, and then they pray on them?

[Altai]

People who "dont believe in God" tells that people who "believe in God" has no place in schools. 


 

[kimmy]

People can pray in school if they choose.  They don't get to make everybody else pray, and they don't get to disrupt everybody else while they're praying.

 -k

[drummindiver]

13 hours ago, hernanday said:

Meh, I lean towards accomodation, peel has a huge muslim population, Canada is a multicultural mosaic, people have this right.

You cant give it to Peel and not everywhere else. I'm sure a prayer room will be well used in Inuvik. snarc

[drummindiver]

3 hours ago, Altai said:

People who "dont believe in God" tells that people who "believe in God" has no place in schools. 


 

People who pay no taxes to fund prayer rooms tells people who pay taxes to pay for prayer rooms.

[H10]

2 hours ago, drummindiver said:

You cant give it to Peel and not everywhere else. I'm sure a prayer room will be well used in Inuvik. snarc

I'd be surprised if there was a single muslim out there, lol.

Its not just Peel, it is meeting the needs of the people who live there, we live in a diverse country, one size will not fit all, if there are enough people who want prayers, let them have it.  No sweat off my back.  We live in a country where one man can put his penis into another man's rectum and two men can kiss each other and cross dress in public but if you want to pray in public that should be debated?  GTFO with your political correctness!

[?Impact]

 Any Muslim, Christian, etc. club should be held to the exact same standards as any Political club (e.g. young Liberals, campus Conservatives, etc.), any other special interest club (chess, robotics, etc.) or any sports club (soccer, volleyball, etc.). If they are required to find a faculty advisor, then that needs to be held equally to all. If they have to have minimum enrolment, then so be it. If they get access to school facilities (meeting place, gym, etc.) then so be it. If they have to have their sermons or speeches pre-screened, then so be it. The point is there needs to be equality. This decision by the Peel Regional board to screen sermons on Tuesday for Friday means that any speech made at a political club must also be pre-screened 3 days prior to being delivered.

[The_Squid]

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

This decision by the Peel Regional board to screen sermons on Tuesday for Friday means that any speech made at a political club must also be pre-screened 3 days prior to being delivered.

Not necessarily...   Perhaps a previous sermon mentioned something unethical and/or violent and there was a complaint.  They need to ensure the "sermon" doesn't violate other student's rights or make them uncomfortable.  Sometimes a club/group will need special attention if they have violated school rules in the past.    

Are the boys and girls segregated?  If they are, that should be halted immediately.

Edited January 12, 2017 by The_Squid

[?Impact]

1 minute ago, The_Squid said:

Sometimes a club/group will need special attention if they have violated school rules in the past.

Valid point, but should that apply to the individual, the group, or across the entire board?

[The_Squid]

3 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Valid point, but should that apply to the individual, the group, or across the entire board?

The individual and the group, if the group didn't immediately condemn it and go to the teacher to report it.

ETA:  I have no idea if this is the case here.  Details are skinny in the OP.

Edited January 12, 2017 by The_Squid

[-TSS-]

I'm so disappointed with the mankind as in this time and age people are still obsessed with medieval superstitious claptrap and some want to impose the same rubbish on other people.

Religion should be nothing else than a private matter and there should be no connection between the any church and the state. Well, at least you people over there on the other side of the pond have that one right. I wish we did too.

 

[eyeball]

I don't think we have the problem licked on this side of the pond at all, we're still skating on some pretty thin ice over here.

[The_Squid]

On 2017-01-14 at 0:41 PM, -TSS- said:

I'm so disappointed with the mankind as in this time and age people are still obsessed with medieval superstitious claptrap and some want to impose the same rubbish on other people.

Religion should be nothing else than a private matter and there should be no connection between the any church and the state. Well, at least you people over there on the other side of the pond have that one right. I wish we did too.

 

 

On 2017-01-14 at 0:45 PM, eyeball said:

I don't think we have the problem licked on this side of the pond at all, we're still skating on some pretty thin ice over here.

 

 

Finland and Canada have very similar numbers of religious vs non-religious people.   Canada still has ridiculous religious holdovers that don't seem to be changed due to fear of upsetting the religious minority.   Blasphemy laws....  god in the anthem... god in the preamble to the constitution...   public funding of religious schools....  etc.

[?Impact]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:34 PM, The_Squid said:

Finland and Canada have very similar numbers of religious vs non-religious people. 

The root of our problem is the Statistics we keep. Every other census (10 years), we are asked what is your religion even if you no longer practice it. All those kids that were baptized and then never again saw the inside of a church are considered religious. 

[eyeball]

What about the night I ate a mushroom and saw God, does that count?

[cybercoma]

.

Edited January 30, 2017 by cybercoma

[PIK]

There is a reason why people go to church or mosque. Keep it out of schools. This non stop immigration is goiong to kill tyhis country. In 50 yrs canada will not be the country that is was known for,it will be just a mess.

[The_Squid]

3 hours ago, PIK said:

There is a reason why people go to church or mosque. Keep it out of schools. This non stop immigration is goiong to kill tyhis country. In 50 yrs canada will not be the country that is was known for,it will be just a mess.

In Canada, Christianity has been BY FAR the largest violator of church/school separation.  

[blackbird]

On 2017-01-11 at 3:49 PM, hernanday said:

Meh, I lean towards accomodation, peel has a huge muslim population, Canada is a multicultural mosaic, people have this right.

I think public schools have banned christian prayer and distribution of Gideon bibles from their premises.  Years ago in Canada, there were public schools where christian bible stories were taught or read and christianity was given a prominent place.  With the gradual immigration of many non-christian peoples, people started to demand that out of respect for our immigrant friends, christianity would stop being taught in schools or given any special recognition.  That is where we are at now.  So why should school boards in London Ontario have turned gymnasiums into mosques on Fridays?   I don't agree that people have that right.   There is a limit to rights.  Because of the very reason that Canada is made up of many cultures and religions, we cannot favour one over another in a public institution.  Everyone should understand that and respect the principle of public institutions being secular.  That is another reason why someone's face should not be covered in the citizenship ceremony.  There are certain things that define Canada.  Favouring one religion in public institutions is not something we should acquiesce to.  Public schools, universities, courtrooms, and anywhere police and government serves the public should operate in a secular way. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by blackbird

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Public schools, universities, courtrooms, and anywhere police and government serves the public should operate in a secular way. 

So you are suggesting that the school week be Sunday through Thursday then?