President Trump's cabinet

[Icebound]

Expert adviser K. T. McFarland had predicted in early 2015 that ISIS would "thrive" because of Obama policies.  It is still on her website.

Has ISIS "Thrived" or "declined"? 

 

[sharkman]

30 minutes ago, Icebound said:

Expert adviser K. T. McFarland had predicted in early 2015 that ISIS would "thrive" because of Obama policies.  It is still on her website.

Has ISIS "Thrived" or "declined"? 

 

They came into existence quite possibly because Obama pulled the American military out of Iraq. Now I know that those of you who refuse to think objectively or even critically are immediately going to knee jerk respond to that statement.  But for those of you who are simply willing to consider that perhaps Obama wasn't perfect, and may have made some mistakes, I give you the rise of ISIS.

After American troops left Iraq and ISIS started to grow, there were continued YEARS of news stories of them growing and attacking towns.  Killing homosexuals, those from different religions and whomever else they felt like.  Blowing up shrines, holy places and generally creating mass fear among the nearby populace.  

The problem at this point was that Obama had clearly signalled to the world that he would not respond with much force, when he threatened Syria if they used Chemical weapons in their civil war.  He said that would be crossing a red line in the sand.  Well, in short order, Syria crossed that line and Obama backed down.  Despots, dictators and terrorists the world over saw that and knew they could get away with more mayhem with Obama in power.  

So ISIS grew year after year, and started recruiting Canadian and American simpletons to join their forces.  Obama would lob a few missiles now and then, but ISIS just considers those deaths the cost of doing business, it hasn't slowed them down.  Which brings us to the present day.  A month or so before a presidential election Obama aids this campaign to get ISIS out of Mosul, and that was no coincidence(Its well known that military campaigns tend to rally Americans to their leader).  But it failed, and his legacy( of failure) will not be preserved.  

Will Trump finally put boots on the ground, now that ISIS has had 6 or 7 years to get established and dig in?  I dunno, but to wipe out ISIS now will cost many more solder lives than it would have in 2010, and certainly the blame goes to Obama.

 

BTW,  all of the hand wringing over what Trump might do or appoint on this forum from certain members is pointless.  The left is whining about him and the alt right, conveniently forgetting that Obama was tied to the radical left, and many of his stupid decisions and executive orders came out of that.  Pay back's a bitch.

Edited November 25, 2016 by sharkman

[?Impact]

30 minutes ago, sharkman said:

They came into existence quite possibly because Obama pulled the American military out of Iraq.

Nice that you put that at the top of your post, making the rest entirely meaningless. In 2008 George W. Bush signed the status of forces agreement between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq that stated U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011. 

[BubberMiley]

1 hour ago, sharkman said:

They came into existence quite possibly because Obama pulled the American military out of Iraq. Now I know that those of you who refuse to think objectively or even critically are immediately going to knee jerk respond to that statement.  But for those of you who are simply willing to consider that perhaps Obama wasn't perfect, and may have made some mistakes, I give you the rise of ISIS.

 

BTW,  all of the hand wringing over what Trump might do or appoint on this forum from certain members is pointless.  The left is whining about him and the alt right, conveniently forgetting that Obama was tied to the radical left, and many of his stupid decisions and executive orders came out of that.  Pay back's a bitch.

Actually, Bush signed the agreement to remove the American military from Iraq. You should get your facts straight before basing long-winded theories on them.

And, to a great deal, it is not just "the left" whining about Trump. The "right" is, for the most part, as well.

And if you're going to make grand declarations that Obama is "tied to the radical left", you should back that up with actual real-world examples of why you think this way. Otherwise, you just seem like a typical low-information Trump-supporting wingnut.

Edited November 25, 2016 by BubberMiley

[sharkman]

Hello, the facts on the ground were changing by  2011.  Then there was the plan to leave 10,000 troops in Iraq that Obama refused to sign, and you refuse to acknowledge.   Iraq would have been happy to keep some troops but Obama didn't pursue the matter.   Either way, Obama was at the helm and wanted the troops out of Iraq, so out they came, and the rest is history.  

And why, after ISIS had become a real threat, did he not put troops back in Iraq?  Simple and done to do that, but the guy who blamed a youtube video for the death of an ambassador and let Syria cross his "red line in the sand" wasn't going to do anything about it.  You know it and I know it.

[?Impact]

20 minutes ago, sharkman said:

Then there was the plan to leave 10,000 troops in Iraq that Obama refused to sign, and you refuse to acknowledge.

Yes, there were discussions later on about keeping 10,000 troops in Iraq but that deal fell apart because the Iraqi Parliament would not accept the demand that American troops be given immunity from prosecution by Iraqis. Are you saying that Obama should have conceded, and allowed American Military personnel be subject to prosecution by Iraq? While not perfect, United States soldiers are held to account by the Uniform Code of Military Justice and not foreign laws.

Edited November 25, 2016 by ?Impact

[BubberMiley]

19 minutes ago, sharkman said:

 

And why, after ISIS had become a real threat, did he not put troops back in Iraq?  Simple and done to do that, but the guy who blamed a youtube video for the death of an ambassador and let Syria cross his "red line in the sand" wasn't going to do anything about it.  You know it and I know it.

You think it is "simple" to put soldiers in harm's way on the ground in Iraq? Would it also be simple to have them there for years and years to ensure another power vacuum doesn't happen as soon as they leave again? How long would it take before it would get complicated?

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Icebound said:

You have to remember that it not not just enemies that you are attacking.   Your shells will be killing a large amount of civilians, as well.

Iraqi forces on the ground claim that a surprise attack would have given ISIS way more momentum in their recruitment drives.... whereas now, the civilian population clearly sees their atrocities for what they are.   Also, the slower approach is providing some intelligence from the civilian underground.

It is not stupid at all to save civilian lives.

I know what you mean. They wanted to save civilian lives on the basis that they would leave Mosul but they didn't achieve that. Once ISIS heard of the coming invasion and the premise that civilians should get out, they prevented anyone from leaving. They butchered alotta people, left them partially buried in mass graves, right in the path of the oncoming troops. Because they knew they would find them. A gruesome welcome.

In addition ISIS now had the time to build up their resources, get their fighters ready, weapons, make defense plans. They booby-trapped every house that's on the way in.
What they have set up there now is not unlike Stalingrad in 1942.

Notice how quiet the news is about Mosul? It speaks volumes. It doesn't take a genius to figure this shit out.

Edited November 25, 2016 by OftenWrong

[Rue]

A tad bit of thread drift boyz and girlz. Twas about Donny's cabinet. Who is sec. of state, treasury, commerce. We must wait or what? Why was Romney there. Did they promise him Sec. of State. That would be smart or have they promised it to Rudolph the Red Nosed former Mayor.

Dennis Rodman. Keep an eye on him. Don't put him near any cabinet especially a liquor one.

 

[kimmy]

On 11/24/2016 at 4:03 PM, Argus said:

Not only never worked in education but her kids went to private schools.

Betsy deVos is a long-time advocate of charter schools and "voucher programs" which has been a Republican wet dream for a long time and is the main Trump campaign promise regarding education, so deVos fits in perfectly.  If people are worried about what deVos will do as Secretary of Education, they should have worked harder to avoid Trump winning in the first place, because deVos just represents policies that Republicans have wanted for a long time.

 -k

[kimmy]

On 11/24/2016 at 4:02 PM, Argus said:

Has she ever even been out of the United States? Has she seen a map? Most countries like their UN ambassador to know something about the world.

Hey, who cares?  It seems like a lot of the names being thrown around are just there because they're popular conservatives who liberals hate. Laura Ingraham? Joe Arpaio?  David Clarke?  Sarah Palin?  Why not get Ann Coulter? Rush Limbaugh? Hey, maybe they could make Ted Nugent the Secretary of Partying Too Hard!  Maybe they could make the guy from Duck Dynasty the Secretary of the Interior.

 -k

[kimmy]

Interesting rumor that El Trumpo is considering Hawaiian congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard for Secretary of State.

Gabbard is young, a military veteran-- she served in Iraq with a medical unit-- and she is considered a "rising star".

What would make her a very unusual pick is that she's a Democrat.  During the Democratic primaries, she was one of the fiercest Bernie Sanders supporters. But what she and Trump have in common is that they oppose interventionist global policy. It's the reason she refused to endorse Hillary, and it's the message she delivered to Trump during their meeting.

This seems like a long-shot and pretty "out of left field", and given that she's only 35 and has only served at the state and congress level so far, experience would obviously be a huge question mark. None the less it's interesting that Trump met with her at all.

 -k

[Icebound]

1 hour ago, kimmy said:

Interesting rumor that El Trumpo is considering Hawaiian congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard for Secretary of State.

....

 -k

There is a quote from somewhere:

"Rep. Gabbard stands on principle, not politics, and that makes her an impeccable choice for Secretary of State. "

... if "principle" is what one wants.....

[OftenWrong]

On 2016-11-21 at 8:37 PM, Wilber said:

They have been fortifying their defences and digging tunnels for months. They are surrounded, how do they bring in extra resources?

A week since you posted that, and the place is still surrounded. No one is making a move, it seems. People are being systematically butchered, Meanwhile, Iraqis troops have cut off supplies going into Mosul. How does that help the innocents?

Slaughter of innocents continues in battle for Mosul

Fri November 25, 2016
"The terror group's tactic of desperation as nearly 100,000 fighters advance toward Mosul is to simply lob mortars indiscriminately toward government-controlled areas."

Wow that's a lot of fighters...

 

Mosul completely surrounded by Iraqi-led troops, paramilitary forces say

"The PMU said the crucial Mosul-Raqqa route had finally been shut.
ISIS had been able to send resources from its heartland, Raqqa in Syria -- including fighters, suicide squads and explosives -- to Mosul through this route. It was also used as an escape route for senior ISIS members and their families, who fled Mosul for Syria, civilians have told CNN."

Lots of time for the leaders to escape, when you're given two months notice that troops are coming. Seems like there's been no progress for weeks, lots of troops waiting to starve them out. Tell me about the General again, the guy who said Trump was wrong and this is the best way to eliminate ISIS from Mosul.

Trump had this one right when he said the mission was "going badly".

[eyeball]

The mission has been going badly ever since it was Accomplished.

[Argus]

So Trump has appointed to his cabinet, some of the very same people he campaigned against: Wall street billionaires and bankers. Drain that swamp! LOL

Hedge fund manager Whitney Tilson was feeling happy Wednesday morning.

After Donald Trump ridiculed Wall Street on the campaign trail, the President-elect tapped former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. executive Steven Mnuchin to be his Treasury secretary and billionaire investor Wilbur Ross to lead the Commerce Department. Trump even met with Goldman Sachs President Gary Cohn inside Trump Tower.

It would suit Tilson just fine if voters who backed Trump because he promised to rein in Wall Street are furious now that he’s surrounding himself with bankers and billionaires.

“I can take glee in that -- I think Donald Trump conned them,” said Tilson, who runs Kase Capital Management. “I worried that he was going to do crazy things that would blow the system up. So the fact that he’s appointing people from within the system is a good thing.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/wall-street-wins-again-as-trump-chooses-bankers-and-billionaires

 

[cannuck]

Let's just see what the Trump cabinet can and can not accomplish.

IF he can put Pruit in EPA, that will signal something that US business has needed for a LL-OO-NN-GG time - bring that rogue band of loonies under control.  Yes, every country needs to take care of its environment, but NOT at a rate and level that will make it uncompetitive and destroy its economy (the real economy that actually makes things and creates wealth, not the Casino Capitalist economy of Wall Street and big finance).

I would like to think he could slay the Uniparty's biggest dragon (Goldman Sucks and Wall Street), but it looks as if he will have to stroke the kitty before it can be put in a bag and dumped in the river - IF he can get that far.

I am liking this Trump guy more every day.

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by cannuck

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, cannuck said:

Yes, every country needs to take care of its environment, but NOT at a rate and level that will make it uncompetitive and destroy its economy (the real economy that actually makes things and creates wealth, not the Casino Capitalist economy of Wall Street and big finance).

On the contrary I'd suggest the Casino is the only game in town because the real economy is based on a real environment that is being drawn down below the level of sustainability and productivity.  I guess all the dazzle and hoopla of Wall Street has increased people's willingness to engage in the very same sort of risky behaviour people in real casinos do.  In our case however its the House that's gone all in and its putting the whole planet on the brink in the process. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by eyeball

[Argus]

5 hours ago, cannuck said:

I would like to think he could slay the Uniparty's biggest dragon (Goldman Sucks and Wall Street), but it looks as if he will have to stroke the kitty before it can be put in a bag and dumped in the river - IF he can get that far.

Well, I am no expert, but all the people on Wall Street are delighted, and the bank stocks, including that of Goldman Sachs, are soaring, and have been since Trump's election. That would seem to indicate the experts believe that whatever Trump is going to do it is going to be a wonderful time for bankers.

[eyeball]

Trump really seems to be growing on Argus. I've never doubted he would.  

[bush_cheney2004]

On 11/25/2016 at 3:45 PM, sharkman said:

Hello, the facts on the ground were changing by  2011.  Then there was the plan to leave 10,000 troops in Iraq that Obama refused to sign, and you refuse to acknowledge.   Iraq would have been happy to keep some troops but Obama didn't pursue the matter.   Either way, Obama was at the helm and wanted the troops out of Iraq, so out they came, and the rest is history.  

 

Agreed...President Obama was C-in-C and was responsible for U.S. policy in Iraq regardless of what the previous Bush administration signed.   The funny part is that the same Bush critics are now crediting him for getting U.S. troops out of Iraq because things went sideways after Obama took office.   Can't have it both ways.

Personally, I want a President Trump to relent on Assad's continued rule in Syria to remove one order of complexity and support Russia's contribution to stability in the region (against ISIS).

[bush_cheney2004]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Trump really seems to be growing on Argus. I've never doubted he would.  

 

Many others are working through the five phases of grief as well.   President Trump is going to be a lot of "fun".

[Omni]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...President Obama was C-in-C and was responsible for U.S. policy in Iraq regardless of what the previous Bush administration signed.   The funny part is that the same Bush critics are now crediting him for getting U.S. troops out of Iraq because things went sideways after Obama took office.   Can't have it both ways.

Personally, I want a President Trump to relent on Assad's continued rule in Syria to remove one order of complexity and support Russia's contribution to stability in the region (against ISIS).

I'd like to see where you got the idea Bush was getting US troops OUT of Iraq.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Omni said:

I'd like to see where you got the idea Bush was getting US troops OUT of Iraq.

 

Thousands of U.S. troops left Iraq before Obama became president...many went to Afghanistan after President Obama took office.  

President Trump can move troops around too.   That's what presidents do.

[Omni]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Thousands of U.S. troops left Iraq before Obama became president...many went to Afghanistan after President Obama took office.  

President Trump can move troops around too.   That's what presidents do.

The troops in Iraq were at their highest during the last year of Bush. Luckily Patreaeus convinced Bush they should get the hell out of there so he sent some home but then a bunch to another waste of time war in Afghanistan, and look at the mess that left. Lets hope your Trump reads a bit about history from time to time and takes a lesson from it.