Transgender

[cybercoma]

Who's talking about mixing genders in public showers? Has that EVER been brought up by any trans person?

How about instead of creating fantasy problems you actually shut up and listen to trans people about the issues they face.

[TimG]

Who's talking about mixing genders in public showers? Has that EVER been brought up by any trans person?

What? You are actually admitting that a trans-person is not actually the sex they claim to be and cannot be treated as such by society! Because if you really believed that society should be forced to accept whatever self-identified sex someone claims then society could not complain about a man claiming to be a woman and insisting on using the ladies showers at the local swimming pool. Edited May 18, 2016 by TimG

[cybercoma]

Refer me to any public statement by a trans person on public showers.

[TimG]

Refer me to any public statement by a trans person on public showers.

You are missing the point entirely. The argument being made constantly is society must treat these people as the sex they claim to be regardless of the biological facts. No one may be currently asking for use of showers but it is a inevitable consequence of the publicly stated position. If you are arguing that bathroom rights should NOT be extended to public showers then you are repudiating the publicly stated argument and actually agree with critics who say biology matters.

This is not the first time trans-advocates have tripped over their own rhetoric. The entire 'transgender is normal but no so normal that we should be expected to live with bodies that nature gave us' argument is another example.

Edited May 18, 2016 by TimG

[overthere]

Ambrose has said she plans to vote for the legislation.

That will likely screw up the Liberal plan to try to get it stalled in the Senate.

[Hal 9000]

Who's talking about mixing genders in public showers? Has that EVER been brought up by any trans person?

How about instead of creating fantasy problems you actually shut up and listen to trans people about the issues they face.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/16/transgender-bathroom-rule-matter-dignity-obama-says/84460430/

You see, the term "bathroom issue" or "bathroom bill" is an attempt to cover the more serious concerns - that being change rooms and showers. If you aren't aware that the issue encompasses locker rooms and showers, it's obviously worked on some people.

Everytime you hear someone oppose and claim that they don't want their daughter sharing a changeroom with a "male bodied" person, the response is usually, "it's just a bathroom", but it's not. It's much more than that, and the liberals want to downplay the shower/changeroom aspect.

We accept fitness gyms that are female only because many women want that privacy to workout and do their thing without male bodied people in the area, now that idea will have to change also.

I said earlier that I'm getting beyond the point of caring. We've seen issues arise in Seattle and New York where swim teams made up of young girls are faced with male bodied people in their changerooms and the result is; the other person had full run of the change area while the teams of young girls chose to cram into the smaller "family room". You can find the cite for yourself if you don't believe it.

Now, being the gender that I personally identify with, this is only good for me. I do wonder why young women and people with young children want to learn their lessons the hard way though.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Hal 9000

[waldo]

Ambrose has said she plans to vote for the legislation.

yes! Haven't you heard... they're now the "nouveau-chic Conservatives"... and those rumours of Harper coming back to run for Alberta premier of a new Conservative party is also in keeping with the 'chic revival'. You just wait!

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[cybercoma]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/16/transgender-bathroom-rule-matter-dignity-obama-says/84460430/

I don't care what they do in the United States. Do you have any relevant material to Canada? What exactly do you expect to happen? Do you think there's suddenly going to be a bunch of m2f transgender people swinging their penises in the faces of little girls at local pools? Better not protect transgender people from discrimination and hate crimes then. Little girls might see a penis...even though nobody has any example anywhere ever of a m2f transgender person showing their genitals to children or in public showers at all for that matter. Nor is it even really clear how you people connect the dots from protecting people from discrimination and hate crimes to them attacking children like pedophiles. But hey, I guess when people here think that gay people are pedophiles (see here, here, here, here, here, here, here and especially here) why not make idiotic assumptions about transgender people too.

Edited May 18, 2016 by cybercoma

[Shady]

Sorry, but it's not a basic human right to pretend you're a different gender and have everybody else accept it. As usual progressives have turned society into another shit show. It never ends.

[TimG]

thought nobody has any example anywhere ever of a m2f transgender person showing their genitals to children or in public showers at all for that matter.

Despite your repeated protests you keep ignoring the the fact that arguments used to justify bathroom access automatically imply shower access and that if the Liberals get their way it will be illegal for a public swimming pool to tell a biological man to stay out of the women's showers. By your comments you seem to agree that public pools should be able to restrict this. If this is the case then you should repudiate the the claims of transgender activists that self identification is the only thing that matters.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't care what they do in the United States. Do you have any relevant material to Canada? ...

Love this....there is hope after all.

[waldo]

Love this....there is hope after all.

still waiting on your number! As mentioned, you saw fit to immediately jump into the thread with your misrepresentation of the linked article; per norm playing up the single American reference within it while ignoring the other dozen or so that referred to Canadian sources. It's what you do, it's what you're all about. I had given you a somewhat benefit of the doubt that perhaps you might actually have cycles to help the OP source his request for "a number"... are you still working on that or will all your energies in this thread remain solely devoted to you playing out your forever agenda in drawing purposeful attention to whenever a MLW member relies upon a U.S. reference?

but wait now!!! That reference you took liberties was YOUR's... the reference you provided - the one you apparently scurried around for to find a single internal article American linked reference... while ignoring the other dozen or so Canadian sources mentioned. That was YOU; YOUR provided reference!

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[taxme]

The only real solution is to make all bathrooms and change areas open to any gender.

Try telling that to some dad or mom that have young daughters who enter into a bath or change room that is wide open to whomever? I can just see some pervert sitting on a bench watching some young girl taking her clothes off. This is getting to point of sheer stupidity as to what is going on with all this transgender nonsense. No one seems to be able to see the Sodom and Gomorrah setup being created here by the perverts who are pushing for this nonsense, and the media and politicians going along with this bull. If one has indoor plumbing go into a women's washroom. If one has outdoor plumbing than go into a mans bathroom. It's that short, sweet, and simple. Works for me.

[cybercoma]

Despite your repeated protests you keep ignoring the the fact that arguments used to justify bathroom access automatically imply shower access and that if the Liberals get their way it will be illegal for a public swimming pool to tell a biological man to stay out of the women's showers. By your comments you seem to agree that public pools should be able to restrict this. If this is the case then you should repudiate the the claims of transgender activists that self identification is the only thing that matters.

Trans people are out there right now. I'm not ignoring you; I'm asking you to explain to me exactly what scenarios you expect to happen with trans rights in the CHRA. What do you imagine will happen at these public showers? Which by the way, I almost never see people walking around naked. Even showers at gyms it's usually the old dudes that are free balling it. Everyone else either wears trunks or covers up with a towel. So tell me, what nightmare scenario is so awful that you would deny basic human rights to people so you can prevent it?

[taxme]

It's as simple as this, it's progressive, and once you progress, you must progress further, extend the ideology further, which of course means the issues that are being fought about become more and more extreme, there is no limit to these people, there will always be another issue no matter how far left, and how liberal we already are, it will never be enough.

Just wait. The next issue will be either pedophilia, incest and beastiality. Don't laugh. We will be told that they have rights too. It will come to pass because the sick people who are in control of the media, politicians will try to make it so. The gay and transgender stuff is only just the beginning. Come back to me in another five years, and I will be able to tell you I told you so.

[Bryan]

So tell me, what nightmare scenario is so awful that you would deny basic human rights to people so you can prevent it?

What basic human right are they being denied that is not already covered by the charter and the criminal code?

[TimG]

I'm not ignoring you; I'm asking you to explain to me exactly what scenarios

You keep evading the point. Now you seem to be saying that using public showers (naked) is fine and no one should complain. If that is the case why didn't you just argue that from the first place instead of playing games by trying to pretend that we not are talking about the constitutional "right" of man to use the womens public showers naked if he pleases. There is simply nothing in the proposed legislation that would allow for exceptions to the 'whatever gender one claims to be rule'.

Bottom line is people don't have a right to force other people to enable their mental illness. They have a right to respect and understanding but people are entitled to set boundaries and to demand that these people show respect for them too. A man insisting on using the ladies showers because believes he is a woman is showing disrespect to all of the women using those facilities.

Edited May 18, 2016 by TimG

[cybercoma]

Just wait. The next issue will be either pedophilia, incest and beastiality.

There it is.

[eyeball]

to the earlier questioning of whether a number means anything - I would say it does based on comments I read/hear in regards "bathroom usage/assignments", particularly localized to high-schools... something of the like, "just how many trans kids can there be in that school, anyway!"

I've heard much the same question about kids who are allergic to peanuts these days.

In the future people will probably switch back and forth between sexes and combinations thereof for recreational purposes and numbers of full time straights will eventually dwindle to the o.aughts.

Of course one will still likely need a medical prescription or at the very least pay a sin tax for a recreational sex change.

[Guest]

I've heard much the same question about kids who are allergic to peanuts these days.

In the future people will probably switch back and forth between sexes and combinations thereof for recreational purposes and numbers of full time straights will eventually dwindle to the o.aughts.

Of course one will still likely need a medical prescription or at the very least pay a sin tax for a recreational sex change.

You've been reading John Varley...?

[eyeball]

What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

Social conservatism.

[waldo]

Social conservatism.

bingo - for the thread win!

[Bryan]

Social conservatism.

What specifically are social conservatives currently legally able to do that would deny anyone their basic human rights that is not already covered by the charter and the criminal code?

[Shady]

What basic human right are they being denied that is not already covered by the charter and the criminal code?

There are no basic human rights being denied.

[eyeball]

You've been reading John Varley...?

I might have years ago. I read a lot of sci-fi in the past. I should really take up the habit again.