Transgender

[Big Guy]

I have been following the political reactions to transgender individuals and wondered just how many Canadians are we talking about who are "transgender". The best I could do was an American figure of 0.3% of the population. I have heard 4% on a discussion panel. That is a big difference.

I have since been searching the Internet for a definitive number from an impartial source. No luck so far.

Can anyone recommend a reference for me please.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The best I could do was an American figure of 0.3% of the population.

Thank you for your interest in American demographic data, but alas, such data is not directly applicable to other nations. Also, the American data cited included only those individuals who had taken some steps toward transition, not all individuals who had feelings of being transgender.

It is also interesting (but typical) that the Parliament of Canada library would automatically default to this foreign reference for analysis of "diversity of sexual orientation...How is Canada doing ? ":

http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/ResearchPublications/2013-90-e.htm

Edited May 16, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

It is also interesting (but typical) that the Parliament of Canada library would automatically default to this foreign reference for analysis of "diversity of sexual orientation...How is Canada doing ? ":

it is also interesting (but typical) that YOU took such extreme liberties with that linked reference; of 11 total linked references within that article, all but one is a Canadian reference... the single sole reference to an American source is with respect to a transgender count. Oh my, such liberty taking on your part!

why, it would seem that with your "unique" interest in all that is Canada, you could have chosen to try to find a number for Canada and help to positively generate board discussion in this thread... wait, are you still on the case, still working on that? The waldo is - stay tuned!

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[Moonlight Graham]

It's not 4%.

1.7% in Canada in 2014 identified as homosexual. So, probably lower than that. I'd imagine probably less than 1% identify transgender. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/dai/smr08/2015/smr08_203_2015#a3

Edited May 17, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[Big Guy]

It's not 4%.

1.7% in Canada in 2014 identified as homosexual. So, probably lower than that. I'd imagine probably less than 1% identify transgender. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/dai/smr08/2015/smr08_203_2015#a3

Thank you but that still does not answer my question. There is new legislation soon to be passed. I would like to know if the target of this legislation is 50, 500, 5000, 50,000 or 500,000 people (or more?)

The 4% figure translates into about one and a half million.

The 1.7% figure translates into about 600,000.

[cybercoma]

Why does it matter?

[Moonlight Graham]

Why does it matter?

Facts don't hurt.

[cybercoma]

But why does it matter?

[The_Squid]

But why does it matter?

I suppose it's interesting... But I agre... Why does the number of people who would be protected really matter?

I suppose if it was 6 then people could argue that it's not really worthwhile changing legislation for 6 people. But even at .1% that's 33,000 Canadians.

Edited May 17, 2016 by The_Squid

[Moonlight Graham]

But why does it matter?

Why wouldn't you want to know the numbers that potential policies will affect?

[The_Squid]

Why wouldn't you want to know the numbers that potential policies will affect?

Sometimes doing the right thing should be done regardless of the numbers affected.

[Bryan]

Sometimes doing the right thing should be done regardless of the numbers affected.

What makes it "the right thing"?

[The_Squid]

What makes it "the right thing"?

So you're for discriminating against transgendered people?

[Moonlight Graham]

Sometimes doing the right thing should be done regardless of the numbers affected.

Nobody's saying that. But what's wrong with knowing basic statistics? Big Guy just wants a number, he's not making any argument based on that number.

[Bryan]

So you're for discriminating against transgendered people?

Depends on your definition of discrimination. What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

Edited May 17, 2016 by Bryan

[taxme]

Depends on your definition of discrimination. What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

They probably don't need any additional protection at all. It is most likely just some people or some groups that want to push and make a big deal out of nothing for some unknown reasons. Why has this transgender thing become the front page news story with the media? In every contact I make every day, no one ever bothers to bring it up. It's obvious most Canadians could careless about transgenders and their problem of not being sure as to what gender they belong too. This is just another addition to the Sodom and Gomorrah world that we are being forced to live and put up with.

[taxme]

Personally, I have had enough of all this gay and transgender rights stuff that seems to be what politicians and the lame duck media seem to be only concerned about. But I suppose I should be happy that they are doing something for their pay even if it's not what I think they should be wasting my tax dollars on. I just cannot believe that this is something Canadians need to hear or know about. What a waste of time and effort and tax dollars. But when was it that Politicians ever gave a dam about tax dollars? Everyone has a right to be stupid. Politicians just abuse it.

[waldo]

I have been following the political reactions to transgender individuals and wondered just how many Canadians are we talking about who are "transgender". The best I could do was an American figure of 0.3% of the population. I have heard 4% on a discussion panel. That is a big difference.

I have since been searching the Internet for a definitive number from an impartial source. No luck so far.

Can anyone recommend a reference for me please.

not definitive at all, but... from a 2015 G&M article that (unfortunately doesn't provide source reference): "Together, trans and intersex persons account for 775,000 Canadians (0.5 per cent are trans, 2 per cent are intersex)"... the number correlates to a population of 31 million for Canada, aligning with 2006 population data: => which would equate to 155,000 Canadians @0.5% trans

to the earlier questioning of whether a number means anything - I would say it does based on comments I read/hear in regards "bathroom usage/assignments", particularly localized to high-schools... something of the like, "just how many trans kids can there be in that school, anyway!"

of course, broad terms fail to address the 'nuances' within identity/identify. As I read, it's yet unclear the target categorization(s) for the intended Trudeau government legislation... broad reference is given to just the term, 'transgender', in what I've read so far. I would expect/anticipate a more granular makeup in target protections; one to extend across transgender, transsexual, intersex and gender variant groupings.

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[Hal 9000]

The only real solution is to make all bathrooms and change areas open to any gender.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Hal 9000

[Big Guy]

I agree fully with this legislation, but I do wonder about what changes and costs it will incur. In all of the public and private schools that I know of, washrooms and change rooms are separated by physically apparent sexual orientation - and do not have the ability to be locked. In most schools, the washrooms are considered as part of the teaching spaces that have to be open to patrol to facilitate student safety. They are periodically checked for strangers and/or smokers and drug users.

Because of the lack of doors on cubicles and often missing toilet paper, most students avoid school washrooms.

If the issue in any particular school is one or two students then it can be resolved by allowing the transgender to use teacher/adult washrooms. All sex washrooms with the ability to be locked, create may problems for those in charge with school safety. Already bad things have happened in single sex washrooms out of sight of staff supervision.

As to toilet paper, students have learned that if you want an early closing on a school day or a school evacuation to provide a smoke break for the students, you just have to find a washroom on a second or third floor of a school. You wet down a couple of rolls of toilet paper and stuff them into a toilet. Then you flush the toilet and stick something into the flusher so the water will not stop flushing and quietly make your way back to class.

Within a half hour, the public washroom will be flooded with "water" coming through the ceilings of classrooms in the vicinity below the targeted washroom. Sometimes a fire alarm is pulled at the same time and a student produced afternoon outside break is created.

Students tend to be very creative so that is why I was wonder about just how many individuals we are trying to accommodate. The numbers may dictate the accommodation.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Big Guy

[GostHacked]

Personally, I have had enough of all this gay and transgender rights stuff that seems to be what politicians and the lame duck media seem to be only concerned about. But I suppose I should be happy that they are doing something for their pay even if it's not what I think they should be wasting my tax dollars on. I just cannot believe that this is something Canadians need to hear or know about. What a waste of time and effort and tax dollars. But when was it that Politicians ever gave a dam about tax dollars? Everyone has a right to be stupid. Politicians just abuse it.

I am with you on this one. It's getting ridiculous. It's part of the SJW movement and started with the new Feminism in my view. We have to accomodate every little difference between these classifications. Male, female, bi, gay, trans. ect ect ..... And this seems to be targeted at younger people who have yet to discover what they are. To me it's causing a lot of confusion in younger people which is leading to much of this.

We have two genders, just like 99.9999% of the other species on this planet. No other animal on this earth is taking it this far, and really they don't care about it, and neither should we.

[poochy]

The only real solution is to make all bathrooms and change areas open to any gender.

Agree, but how much would you like to bet that there are transgendered people, who are female, who wouldn't want to use the same bathroom as cisgendered men? This is always ultimately the problem, no matter how much you progress, someone demands you progress more, split the hair even further, and eventually the whole thing falls apart. So there is no point in any of this, we all have the same rights, instead of making a special case for special people, simply break down all of the barriers that divide us now. I suppose the problem is that liberal politicians aren't a fan of being honest with their constituents, many of whom are women who won't be terribly happy with sharing a bathroom with a man, no matter how progressive they claim to be. There's no other way to do it, just how do you determine if that man in the ladies washroom isn't what he claims to be? You can't, if a woman can dress like a man, then a transgendered woman, who is still male can also dress like a man, so any man can walk into any ladies room and you can't legally do anything about it. Speaking as someone who accidentally walked into the ladies room at Rogers Centre a few weeks ago, I can assure you it wasn't appreciated, so, no more gendered washrooms, its the only way this can work. We must progress to the point that even the tiniest fraction of our population with even stranger predilections are accommodated, even if that means doing so makes the vast majority as uncomfortable as those people used to be.

[poochy]

I am with you on this one. It's getting ridiculous. It's part of the SJW movement and started with the new Feminism in my view. We have to accomodate every little difference between these classifications. Male, female, bi, gay, trans. ect ect ..... And this seems to be targeted at younger people who have yet to discover what they are. To me it's causing a lot of confusion in younger people which is leading to much of this.

We have two genders, just like 99.9999% of the other species on this planet. No other animal on this earth is taking it this far, and really they don't care about it, and neither should we.

It's as simple as this, it's progressive, and once you progress, you must progress further, extend the ideology further, which of course means the issues that are being fought about become more and more extreme, there is no limit to these people, there will always be another issue no matter how far left, and how liberal we already are, it will never be enough.

[Hal 9000]

I'll openly admit to using a women's washroom when the mens is full, but only the single user ones. The type you find at gas stations etc. If someone looks at me strange, i'm quite prepared to claim my rights as an "ever questioning person of undetermined gender". I have yet to use the big open multi user women's bathrooms though.

[waldo]

We have two genders, just like 99.9999% of the other species on this planet. No other animal on this earth is taking it this far, and really they don't care about it, and neither should we.

other species? Really? It's not that difficult - just ask yourself if you differentiate between male/female versus man/woman

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