America under President Trump

Boges · July 8, 2020

Is it a crisis yet?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

Quote

At least 56 intensive care units in Florida hospitals reached capacity on Tuesday, state officials said. Another 35 hospitals show ICU bed availability of 10% or less, according to the Agency for Health Care Administration in that state.

Georgia surpassed 100,000 reported coronavirus cases, becoming the ninth state to pass the mark.

In California, the number of hospitalizations across the state were at an all-time high and the virus positivity rate jumped more than 2% in Los Angeles.

As nearly 3 million confirmed coronavirus cases were reported in the US, the need for testing has increased. That has led federal officials to set up new testing sites in Florida, Louisiana and Texas. But major diagnostic companies have said they are facing testing delays.

eyeball · July 8, 2020

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Spanish Flu was actually a rare case where the 2nd wave was stronger than the first. Up until recently I thought that was something that was a strong possibility. It's actually the exception to the rule according to what I've been reading lately.

The 2nd Spanish flu wave was made worse by a mutation of the 1st strain, the recklessness of the world's more impatient economies and militaries who refused to shut down helped super-spread the 2nd strain.

OftenWrong · July 8, 2020

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Spanish Flu was actually a rare case where the 2nd wave was stronger than the first. Up until recently I thought that was something that was a strong possibility. It's actually the exception to the rule according to what I've been reading lately.

Very good, thanks. I don't bother doing the research any more because I was already trained in it years ago. It's great to see someone else find the answers completely independently.

OftenWrong · July 8, 2020

Note to those who feel they can cheat death: Completely shut down the world? Nonsense. The Grim Reaper comes a'calling, either way.

WestCanMan · July 9, 2020

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

The 2nd Spanish flu wave was made worse by a mutation of the 1st strain, the recklessness of the world's more impatient economies and militaries who refused to shut down helped super-spread the 2nd strain.

Right.

I've talked about the 2nd strain of Spanish Flu being unlike the first strain, and being vastly stronger, many times here.

I thought that it was something that was common, but apparently viruses usually get weaker as the strain mutates.

It's not that it's impossible for it to get stronger, obviously, it is just not likely.

eyeball · July 9, 2020

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Very good, thanks. I don't bother doing the research any more because I was already trained in it years ago. It's great to see someone else find the answers completely independently.

Really? You must have dropped out before they got to the history of pandemics.

Quote

"The optimist in me would like to think that maybe it will go away, and the virus will mutate and won't become worse," said Provincial Health Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry in an interview with Matt Galloway, host of CBC Radio's The Current.

"But you know what? We've never had a pandemic in recorded history that has not had a second wave."

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-21-2020-1.5577286/b-c-s-top-doctor-bonnie-henry-says-2nd-wave-of-covid-19-inevitable-but-current-lessons-will-guide-response-1.5577290

This is from the top doctor feted around the world as being responsible for one of the best outcomes on the planet in terms of protecting the public from this pandemic. Are you suggesting your level of training is higher than her's?

Bull fucking shit.

eyeball · July 9, 2020

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Completely shut down the world? Nonsense.

Yes it is nonsense to declare or believe the world has been completely shut down. We're only 6 months into this meaning there's another 12 months left in the 18 month period most experts agree we should allow to develop a vaccine and or hopefully a treatment - I'm surprised you haven't snapped and already gone postal.

eyeball · July 9, 2020

51 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Right.

I've talked about the 2nd strain of Spanish Flu being unlike the first strain, and being vastly stronger, many times here.

I thought that it was something that was common, but apparently viruses usually get weaker as the strain mutates.

It's not that it's impossible for it to get stronger, obviously, it is just not likely.

The point is that it would be the exception to the historical record if COVID-19 doesn't produce a 2nd wave. Therefore its very likely. Sure we should always be hopeful but not at the expense of tempering that with a conservative precautionary approach and be ready for it.

WestCanMan · July 9, 2020

25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The point is that it would be the exception to the historical record if COVID-19 doesn't produce a 2nd wave. Therefore its very likely. Sure we should always be hopeful but not at the expense of tempering that with a conservative precautionary approach and be ready for it.

We just racked up $354B in debt this year.

We're now approaching $1Trillion, and this year's budget was over 1/3 of that.

We can't afford to shut down the country again unless the 2nd wave of covid is vastly stronger than the first.

eyeball · July 9, 2020

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

We just racked up $354B in debt this year.

We're now approaching $1Trillion, and this year's budget was over 1/3 of that.

So what? Is there a Martian invasion fleet orbiting overhead demanding repayment or else? Who and where are all these fucking idiots that keep lending us all this money anyway? How and where did they get so much they can afford to lend us so much? Why don't we just tax them instead?

Quote

We can't afford to shut down the country again unless the 2nd wave of covid is vastly stronger than the first.

But we can shut it down anyway if we really need or want too, you're actually allowing that we still have choices and we don't need to destroy the economy to save it?

That's a relief.

betsy · July 9, 2020

Under President Trump - it didn't take long for the USA to make a ROARING economic come-back!

Donald Trump Cheers US Economy After June Jobs Surge Despite Covid-19

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/donald-trump-cheers-us-economy-after-june-jobs-surge-despite-covid-19-2256156

Edited July 9, 2020 by betsy

Boges · July 9, 2020

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Under President Trump - it didn't take long for the USA to make a ROARING economic come-back!

Donald Trump Cheers US Economy After June Jobs Surge Despite Covid-19

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/donald-trump-cheers-us-economy-after-june-jobs-surge-despite-covid-19-2256156

Took you a week to get to this story.

This survey happened before a good chunk of the recent spike that has caused several states to put a halt to Re-Opening efforts.

I would suggest that this rush to re-opening has caused COVID to get a foothold in the US and make it impossible to control.

And now Trump says he'll penalize states that don't open schools in a month, regardless of their COVID situation.

Boges · July 9, 2020

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

We just racked up $354B in debt this year.

We're now approaching $1Trillion, and this year's budget was over 1/3 of that.

We can't afford to shut down the country again unless the 2nd wave of covid is vastly stronger than the first.

Which is why the re-opening has been gradual and cautious in Canada.

Unlike in parts of the US which are seeing outbreaks worse than was seen in April.

betsy · July 9, 2020

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

Took you a week to get to this story.

This survey happened before a good chunk of the recent spike that has caused several states to put a halt to Re-Opening efforts.

I would suggest that this rush to re-opening has caused COVID to get a foothold in the US and make it impossible to control.

And now Trump says he'll penalize states that don't open schools in a month, regardless of their COVID situation.

:rolleyes:

It still doesn't change the fact that......

Donald Trump Cheers US Economy After June Jobs Surge Despite Covid-19

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/donald-trump-cheers-us-economy-after-june-jobs-surge-despite-covid-19-2256156

Edited July 9, 2020 by betsy

Boges · July 9, 2020

2 minutes ago, betsy said:

It still doesn't change the fact that......Donald Trump Cheers US Economy After June Jobs Surge Despite Covid-19

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/donald-trump-cheers-us-economy-after-june-jobs-surge-despite-covid-19-2256156

11% unemployment (slow clap) he inherited 5% unemployment from Obama.

betsy · July 9, 2020

41 minutes ago, Boges said:

11% unemployment (slow clap) he inherited 5% unemployment from Obama.

It still doesn't change the fact that......Donald Trump Cheers US Economy After June Jobs Surge Despite Covid-19

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/donald-trump-cheers-us-economy-after-june-jobs-surge-despite-covid-19-2256156

Shady · July 9, 2020

20 hours ago, Boges said:

Is it a crisis yet?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

Possibly. Although capacity can be greatly increased. Hospitals generally don't have a large number ICU beds, etc, because 99% of the time, they're not needed. So saying they've reached capacity when their capacity is small, isn't necessarily a crisis Regardless, yes, the protests really fucked things up. I wish health professionals wouldn't have gotten political and encouraged them. Since then, people have become complacent as well. People could get complacent in Ontario in a few weeks as well. Hopefully they don't. I don't think we have to worry about thousands and thousands of people protesting though.

Shady · July 9, 2020

1 hour ago, Boges said:

11% unemployment (slow clap) he inherited 5% unemployment from Obama.

Nice, now do your buddy Trudeau! :lol:

Regardless, it went from 5% to 3% under Trump. He didn't create COVID, your pals in China.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Shady

OftenWrong · July 9, 2020

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Really?

Yes. I was trained by medical professionals. And you... are trained by Google?

Heh heh heh

Boges · July 9, 2020

5 minutes ago, Shady said:

Since then, people have become complacent as well. People could get complacent in Ontario in a few weeks as well. Hopefully they don't. I don't think we have to worry about thousands and thousands of people protesting though.

That's why, even though the numbers are low, Municipal governments are still mandating masks in indoor public places. Hard to enforce but it's on the books. No one is going to get penalized for not serving someone for not wearing a mask.

When you look at what's going on in the US, I don't know how you don't decide to wear a mask in public.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Boges

Boges · July 9, 2020

25 minutes ago, Shady said:

Nice, now do your buddy Trudeau!

Regardless, it went from 5% to 3% under Trump. He didn't create COVID, your pals in China.

And he didn't really create the growing economy he inherited. He just took the baton.

Can't take credit for an economy you didn't create and absolve yourself from a struggling economy because you didn't create the virus.

His rush to re-open the economy will have hurt the recovery far more than has helped it.

All other developed nations have tackled COVID and have falling infection rates. The US is arguably in worse shape that it was in April. At least in April it really was only focused in the Northeast. Now, it's just about everywhere.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Boges

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

50 minutes ago, Boges said:

All other developed nations have tackled COVID and have falling infection rates. The US is arguably in worse shape that it was in April. At least in April it really was only focused in the Northeast. Now, it's just about everywhere.

The U.S. economy is rebounding faster than Canada's, which was already in trouble even before COVID.

WestCanMan · July 9, 2020

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

So what? Is there a Martian invasion fleet orbiting overhead demanding repayment or else? Who and where are all these fucking idiots that keep lending us all this money anyway? How and where did they get so much they can afford to lend us so much? Why don't we just tax them instead?

But we can shut it down anyway if we really need or want too, you're actually allowing that we still have choices and we don't need to destroy the economy to save it?

That's a relief.

We still have choices.

Our PM screwed up right at the beginning by completely mismanaging covid. He gave the worst advice possible and did absolutely nothing aside from let Covid in.

Canada should have done better than Japan vs Covid by orders of magnitude. We did worse than Japan by orders of magnitude. Now we're still fighting it.

Shady · July 9, 2020

1 hour ago, Boges said:

And he didn't really create the growing economy he inherited. He just took the baton.

Can't take credit for an economy you didn't create and absolve yourself from a struggling economy because you didn't create the virus.

His rush to re-open the economy will have hurt the recovery far more than has helped it.

All other developed nations have tackled COVID and have falling infection rates. The US is arguably in worse shape that it was in April. At least in April it really was only focused in the Northeast. Now, it's just about everywhere.

Well that's certainly debatable. He was responsible for tax reform, regulatory reform and an all of the above energy policy that certainly helped the economy significantly. Of course you can take credit for an economy that improved, every president would and does. Of course you can absolve yourself from a struggling economy when it wasn't a result of any of your policies. The same can be said about almost every country right now. You're just too partisan to discuss anything rational about Trump. But, yes, as I've already said, the nation wide protests involving hundreds of thousands of people packed on top of each other day after day for 3 weeks straight really caused significant problems. Luckily no other countries had to face the same predicament.