Boges Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 Just now, Infidel Dog said: Not just New York. You conveniently forgot Michigan. You know? The state where the link was provided to show an actual case of a retirement home bed being used to house a 20 year old covid patient. The point is you don't know if it's just ICU beds that might be causing the worry there might not be enough beds soon in Texas and Florida. The 2 states where an actual recurrence of some restrictions is coming back. Oh and BTW this is lack of beds concern is a worry not an actual event. That's why we're talking the scare of a possible lack of beds after the July 4th long weekend. Lack of beds have caused deaths to spike in New York, Italy and Spain. I can't believe I have to keep repeating this. But oh well. Quote
Boges Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 Just now, WestCanMan said: Some people have to for work, volunteering, etc. We just had people come up from the States a couple weeks ago to come to a wedding later this month. There are other people who don't want to come to the wedding for fear of covid, so the Americans got tested before they came up, and possibly here. I personally don't care much so I didn't follow it that closely. So if people are doing it because of that, then the positivity rate would be low. It's not in the states effected with this current spike. In the Miami area it's north of 20%. Quote
WestCanMan Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Boges said: Ahhh, so now it's the protests fault. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/18/anti-racism-protests-coronavirus-rise-covid-19-cases Wouldn't partying or dining inside or attending a political rally also not be a good idea in this environment? Especially without a mask? Yup. It all counts. It takes a couple weeks for the full extent of all those initial contacts to be known. The new infection spikes of today are likely from gatherings 1 to 3 weeks ago. EG, 4,000 people attend an event, lots of them get infected, they infect their family, co-workers and friend circle, etc. Trump's rally in Okla could be the cause of many infections but the extent won't be known for weeks after the date. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) President Trump tightens the screws on China and other international students if classes remain online. This is in addition to stopping visas for Chinese students. Quote The United States will not allow foreign students to remain in the country for the fall semester if all of their classes move online, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency said in a statement on Monday, as the US struggles to deal with the coronavirus pandemic. "Nonimmigrant F-1 and M-1 students attending schools operating entirely online may not take a full online course load and remain in the United States," the ICE statement said. https://www.dw.com/en/foreign-students-in-us-must-leave-if-classes-move-online/a-54073794 Edited July 7, 2020 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Infidel Dog Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 Just now, Boges said: Lack of beds have caused deaths to spike in New York, Italy and Spain. I can't believe I have to keep repeating this. But oh well. Not sure when you said this. Not even sure what it is you think you said or how it's supposed to matter. But yeah, if Covid cases spike they can take up more beds. As the case load grows it affects beds - not necessarily just ICU beds. We saw that in Michigan and New York. In Texas and Florida there has recently been a bit of a see-saw effect and a recent surge of cases. This has them worried there might not be enough beds soon. Hope they don't start with those dimwitted policies we saw previously in Progressive run states like Michigan and New York where they just start sluffing patients off to retirement homes and such. Quote
Infidel Dog Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 And I'm with whoever mentioned it before but why are we talking about what may or may not be the idiotic decisions of State governors on a thread about President Trump? Quote
WestCanMan Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: Hope they don't start with those dimwitted policies we saw previously in Progressive run states like Michigan and New York where they just start sluffing patients off to retirement homes and such. Leftists don't care about that, at all - yet. It would suddenly start to matter if a Republican did something that stupid though. No doubt accusations of fogeycide would come out. Cuomo could put bubonic plague patients with psychotic outbursts armed with chainsaws into care homes and leftists would pretend not to notice. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
WestCanMan Posted July 7, 2020 Report Posted July 7, 2020 28 minutes ago, Boges said: So if people are doing it because of that, then the positivity rate would be low. It's not in the states effected with this current spike. In the Miami area it's north of 20%. The positivity rates for people who are getting tested for various random things is random, by definition. The positivity rates for people who are sick with flu-like symptoms is probably close to 100%. The regular flu viruses have taken the year off for some reason. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
Boges Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 4 hours ago, WestCanMan said: The positivity rates for people who are getting tested for various random things is random, by definition. The positivity rates for people who are sick with flu-like symptoms is probably close to 100%. The regular flu viruses have taken the year off for some reason. Some people with a cold may think they have it. With mild symptoms. Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 9 hours ago, Boges said: Hospitalization is up across the board. Is that data with or without intubation? Otherwise it is useless. Quote
eyeball Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Shady said: Well, you're also comparing a population of Texas (30 million) to Ontario (15 million) It never occurred to people who cite population density as a cause of concern that defending the decisions to open up places that are densely populated is a little, shall we say...thick? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, WestCanMan said: The damage caused by the shutdown wasn't just 'economic hardship'. There are suicides, deaths from increased alcoholism, divorces, incidences of domestic abuse and other serious issues associated with 'economic hardship'. Those lives are no less valuable than the covid deaths. Awwww, it's cute how a conservative's need to be seen as great and caring humanists and gushing their concern for people they generally regard as being losers. It was great to see for example the concern conservatives had for the LGBTQ community during the Islamic threat to our liberties, our communities and our precious bodily fluids. Quote There is also going to be economic hardship for future generations as a result of debt amassed during covid. Future generations will call us snowflakes for racking up catastrophic debt for a really bad flu season, and they'll marvel at the hypocrisy of the leftists who acted like covid was a pandemic of biblical proportions who simultaneously jumped to discredit possible, affordable solutions. Future generations will probably spend more time ridiculing conservatives for demanding we rack up trillions in debt to fight commies around the planet for decades while never doing a damn thing to stop them from overthrowing our liberties, enslaving our communities and draining our precious bodily fluids right here in our own countries. Quote You want a shutdown because you think it will make the POTUS look bad. Boohoo. He's done a far far better job of that himself. The last thing I want right now is a lockdown because I'm making over $300 a day and trying to get as many days in as possible before the 2nd wave hits BC and we have to button up again. I WANTED a shutdown so we could get to where we are now. You keep saying this is just a bad flu, well we're seeing history repeat itself as regions who opened to soon, fast and aggressively during the Spanish flu pandemic suffered greater sickness, death and deeper longer lasting economic damage than those who took a more ahem...conservative approach. Quote Just more evidence that your heart is in the wrong place. This discussion is for people who actually care about human lives. Awwww... Edited July 8, 2020 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Boges Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 9 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Is that data with or without intubation? Otherwise it is useless. How is it useless? Doctors are trying to avoid intubating patients now. It seems that death is more likely when that happens. Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, Boges said: How is it useless? Doctors are trying to avoid intubating patients now. It seems that death is more likely when that happens. Because there is no firm criteria for assigning them to hospitalization. Some will be put in because they're truly ill and need it, others out of precaution are put under observation for a day or two. If nothing is wrong, no symptoms appear, they are sent home. So by increasing detection, performing more tests, more people are discovered having the virus. Thus more people are put in the hospital for precautionary observation. But, increased testing and detection should not increase the (true) hospitalizations and deaths, as those people who are truly sick would come forward anyway. Increased detection mainly finds those people who have the virus and didn't even know. Example- "I have a headache." "Maybe you should get a test for Covid-19" .... "You've tested positive sir. We're going to admit you, since you reported some symptoms." Ahh... such simptons Quote
Boges Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Because there is no firm criteria for assigning them to hospitalization. Some will be put in because they're truly ill and need it, others out of precaution are put under observation for a day or two. If nothing is wrong, no symptoms appear, they are sent home. So by increasing detection, performing more tests, more people are discovered having the virus. Thus more people are put in the hospital for precautionary observation. But, increased testing and detection should not increase the (true) hospitalizations and deaths, as those people who are truly sick would come forward anyway. Increased detection mainly finds those people who have the virus and didn't even know. Example- "I have a headache." "Maybe you should get a test for Covid-19" .... "You've tested positive sir. We're going to admit you, since you reported some symptoms." Ahh... such simptons What's your evidence for that? The big number is ICU capacity because those are people that need medical intervention. And as Hospitals reach capacity, I doubt they'd be doing that. You can find out your positive at a Drive-Tru testing site. They would just tell you to stay home for two weeks. Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Boges said: What's your evidence for that? Nothing but rationality, sublime and pure. Quote
Boges Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, OftenWrong said: Nothing but rationality, sublime and pure. Kay, but this doesn't indicate people are just being admitted precautionary. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/hospitalizations-arizona-texas-florida-us-nears-3-million-covid-19-cases Quote And in three states that have been hit hardest with the virus this summer—Arizona, Texas, and Florida—hospitalization rates, including intensive care unit (ICU) admissions, are increasing at an alarming rate. Yesterday Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego told National Public Radio her city was in crisis. "We are in a crisis situation with our health care. We have reached the level where over 90% of our ICU beds are in use. And we are quite worried that after the Fourth of July weekend, we will see another large growth in COVID-19 admissions to the hospital,” Gallego said. Quote The number of Texans hospitalized for the novel virus has doubled in the last 2 weeks, to almost 8,700 people, the Texas Tribune reports. Yesterday Texas topped 200,000 infections, with 200,557 cases. Finally in Florida, 43 hospital ICUs in 21 counties, including in Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, have hit capacity. Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, Boges said: Kay, but this doesn't indicate people are just being admitted precautionary. No need to move the goal posts quite yet... I gotta finish. We were talking about your graph and what it means. Conclusion: We don't know. It cannot be taken as it is to mean much of anything. Quote
Boges Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: No need to move the goal posts quite yet... I gotta finish. We were talking about your graph and what it means. Conclusion: We don't know. It cannot be taken as it is to mean much of anything. How is doubling hospitalization in the matter of weeks not a case for alarm? https://www.statesman.com/news/20200707/texas-sees-new-records-in-coronavirus-cases-hospitalizations-and-deaths Quote Hospitalizations have more than doubled from two weeks ago, when the health agency reported 4,092 patients in Texas hospitals on June 23. The state’s 60 new coronavirus-related fatalities brought the statewide death toll to 2,715. Gov. Greg Abbott has aimed to slow down those increases with the closure of bars, a reduction in restaurant occupancy limits and a statewide mask order. He paused future reopenings last month and warned of a “massive outbreak” unless Texans follow social distancing guidelines. If it wasn't cause for alarm, the Governor wouldn't have halted the re-opening. Quote
Shady Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 9 hours ago, eyeball said: It never occurred to people who cite population density as a cause of concern that defending the decisions to open up places that are densely populated is a little, shall we say...thick? Not at all. They opened without any big problems until the protests took place. Did you see the thousands of people packed in together for George Floyds funeral in Houston? Quote
eyeball Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Shady said: Not at all. They opened without any big problems until the protests took place. Did you see the thousands of people packed in together for George Floyds funeral in Houston? Yes and did you see the protesting crowds gathering during the right wing backlash that preceded that? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Shady Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, eyeball said: Yes and did you see the protesting crowds gathering during the right wing backlash that preceded that? Sure. Much less of a scale though, but ok. Quote
WestCanMan Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 11 hours ago, eyeball said: Awwww, it's cute how a conservative's need to be seen as great and caring humanists and gushing their concern for people they generally regard as being losers. It was great to see for example the concern conservatives had for the LGBTQ community during the Islamic threat to our liberties, our communities and our precious bodily fluids. Only a total fucking moron would assume that just because people are conservative they don't care about other humans. You've been brainwashed son. Quote Future generations will probably spend more time ridiculing conservatives for demanding we rack up trillions in debt to fight commies around the planet for decades while never doing a damn thing to stop them from overthrowing our liberties, enslaving our communities and draining our precious bodily fluids right here in our own countries. Future generations of liberals will no doubt be as brainwashed as the current generation who feel like they've been right about everything all along when they're ofer the past decade.The'll believe CNN when they say is sky is falling, then they'll believe them when they say the sky is going up, then they'll believe them when they say stick this in your arm. That's what liberals do. Quote He's done a far far better job of that himself. The last thing I want right now is a lockdown because I'm making over $300 a day and trying to get as many days in as possible before the 2nd wave hits BC and we have to button up again. I WANTED a shutdown so we could get to where we are now. You keep saying this is just a bad flu, well we're seeing history repeat itself as regions who opened to soon, fast and aggressively during the Spanish flu pandemic suffered greater sickness, death and deeper longer lasting economic damage than those who took a more ahem...conservative approach. The only real reason to have a lockdown is if it's necessary. Right now it's not necessary. FYI your predictions of how bad covid will be in the fall are worthless. Even the WHO and our own Public Health Ministers don't have a clue wtf is going on. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
eyeball Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: The only real reason to have a lockdown is if it's necessary. Right now it's not necessary. Not in BC and much of Canada for the moment at least. Quote FYI your predictions of how bad covid will be in the fall are worthless. Even the WHO and our own Public Health Ministers don't have a clue wtf is going on. No doubt there'll be lots to learn before this is over. That said most experts seem pretty certain that it would be an exception if this pandemic didn't produce a 2nd wave. And again, since you like citing influenza so much, the 2nd wave of the Spanish flu pandemic was worse than it's 1st and 3rd wave combined. There are plenty of clues to what's going on. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
WestCanMan Posted July 8, 2020 Report Posted July 8, 2020 45 minutes ago, eyeball said: Not in BC and much of Canada for the moment at least. No doubt there'll be lots to learn before this is over. That said most experts seem pretty certain that it would be an exception if this pandemic didn't produce a 2nd wave. And again, since you like citing influenza so much, the 2nd wave of the Spanish flu pandemic was worse than it's 1st and 3rd wave combined. There are plenty of clues to what's going on. The Spanish Flu was actually a rare case where the 2nd wave was stronger than the first. Up until recently I thought that was something that was a strong possibility. It's actually the exception to the rule according to what I've been reading lately. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
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