America under President Trump

[Boges]

15 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OOOOOHHHHH THAT'S A BOLD, SCARY HEADLINE IN THE LINK!!!!!!!!

THOSE ARE SOME DIRE WARNINGS THAT YOU QUOTED!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, the co-morbidities for covid that come with old age - high blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol - come with medicines that all have serious side effects. Some can result in death even without combining them with other medications.

Cholesterol - Statins: (lipitor is one of the most widely prescribed drugs in the world)

Kindney failure - ie dialysis and eventually death. 

Blood Pressure: - ACE Inhibitors

Diabetes - Metformin

Here's a really deadly drug, look how scary it is when bolded:

OMFG! I hope that doctors don't actually prescribe the potentially DEADLY DRUG KNOWN AS ACETAMINOPHEN!!!!!

 

And the FDA has guidelines on all those drugs.

COVID-19 is not the intended purpose of this drug, AND there are no studies that prove it works. 

It would be like saying you wanted to use Aspirin to prevent Cancer because it's so effective at treating heart attacks and headaches.. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Boges

[Boges]

15 hours ago, Tdot said:

Stop it!

7 decades. Over 1-billion pills.

Just, stop it! lol ... you are letting the MSM make you appear like a mega TROLL in here.

The more you rage about the MSM the more I suspect you have no argument. 

[Boges]

15 hours ago, Tdot said:

I already did  then you tucked your tail and ran away. You wouldn't even find courage to address how the Dems punished her for thanking Trump about informing citizens of the HCQ option which saved her life from COVID 19 which devastated her.

I don't believe you. Cite some studies that show that HCQ is effective in preventing COVID-19. 

[Boges]

Anyone want to talk about Trump trying to withhold funding (which he can't do) to stop states from allowing absentee balloting? 

He's really afraid of people. . . you know. . . actually voting. 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Anyone want to talk about Trump trying to withhold funding (which he can't do) to stop states from allowing absentee balloting? 

He's really afraid of people. . . you know. . . actually voting. 

If it is as you say, he can't, not much point in discussing that. There is some merit to the idea that one should be cautious when implementing a sudden and vast change to the way people vote. Or are you not concerned about things like Russian, or other interference?

[Boges]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

If it is as you say, he can't, not much point in discussing that. There is some merit to the idea that one should be cautious when implementing a sudden and vast change to the way people vote. Or are you not concerned about things like Russian, or other interference?

So the alternative is force people to vote in the midst of a pandemic. Suppressing the vote. 

If the system was anything like Canada, you're mailed a registration form that allows you to vote on Election Day. You could simply attach an avenue to request a mail-in ballot with the registration form. 

You'd think people wearing masks to polling places would also be fraught with potential fraud. 

[OftenWrong]

13 minutes ago, Boges said:

So the alternative is force people to vote in the midst of a pandemic. Suppressing the vote.

The alternative could also be... postponing the election.

Edited May 21, 2020 by OftenWrong
ETA: Until the virus is over

[Boges]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

The alternative could also be... postponing the election.

That could be indefinite. 

I'm sure Trump would be all for that level of autocracy. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

And the FDA has guidelines on all those drugs.

COVID-19 is not the intended purpose of this drug, AND there are no studies that prove it works. 

It would be like saying you wanted to use Aspirin to prevent Cancer because it's so effective at treating heart attacks and headaches.. 

So, what you completely fail to understand is that there are about 5 possibilities at the start of a pandemic given the technologies that are available in early 2020: 1) try some off-patent drugs like HCQ which are already proven to be effective against some viruses and see if they help against the new virus, 2) use drugs like Redmesivir which are still protected by patent, and one drug company will become infinitely rich while people and countries pay through the nose for it, 3) develop a new drug at great cost and spend months putting it through all the necessary clinical trials to get it approved for mass consumption, 4) lock down everything and everyone so that no one gets the virus but you destroy the economy in the process, while you wait for a vaccine (months for certain, possibly a year or more), 5) let the virus run it's course and just treat as many people as you can and eventually herd immunity will protect what's left of the population. If you choose option 5, you can take antibodies from people who successfully fought the virus and inject them into a select few people but 98% of the population won't have access to this level of treatment in 2020.  

Which option would you prefer Boges? Obviously option number 1 is the best option by far, if it works. A drug like HCQ is off-patent so every drug company in the world can manufacture it, royalty-free, and it's been in circulation for so long that it doesn't need new FDA approval. It would be incredibly cheap, and could help the entire planet right away.

The main problem with HCQ is that Trump talked about it before Cuomo, so it became imperative that the mainstream media and the Dems demonize the drug in every way possible right from the start. Millions of people with absolutely no knowledge of medicine instantly clung to all of these new theories the second that they popped out, and pimped them like they were gospel truth and they knew EXACTLY wtf they were talking about:

"People died drinking fish-tank cleaner!!!!! TRUMP KILLED THEM!!!!" 

"Initial studies which which showed success weren't proper clinical trials!"

"People go blind from HCQ!!!"

"Trump is getting rich off of HCQ!!!!"

"HCQ can cause heart failure!!!!"

"HCQ has a billion side effects, and they're all really bad!"

"A new study which was conducted in the most perfect way in the whole history of drug trials just conclusively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's no useful application for HCQ against covid whatsoever!"

Every single item above IS either an outright lie, or a gross exaggeration of the reality. Only really stupid people instantly belched those things out the second they heard them.

Hundreds of drugs were tried, not just HCQ. There's a reason that almost all of them were discredited immediately. There's obviously a reason that more than 1 doctor on the planet saw some promise in HCQ. FYI its not imperative that HCQ trials cease this instant. Grow up. HCQ might help right at the onset of symptoms in some sick people with co-morbidities. Maybe it does work as a prophylactic. Maybe it helps people who are exposed to the virus kill it within their system and develop immunity to it. I don't know all the possibilities, but I know that actual virologists saw promise in it. Maybe you should have a bit more faith in them than Nancy Pelosi. 

The FACT is that you do not know. Do you? 

Stop acting like you know. Literally no one does, and millions of people are far too eager to lie about it.

Have you considered the possibility that someone just wants to get really rich off of a vaccine, by saving us all from a virus that kills 80 yr olds with co-morbidities and .001% of the rest of the population? We need to figure out exactly what the death rate is among infected people before we keep this panic session rolling at full gallop. 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by WestCanMan

[Boges]

24 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

So, what you completely fail to understand is that there are about 5 possibilities at the start of a pandemic given the technologies that are available in early 2020: 1) try some off-patent drugs like HCQ which are already proven to be effective against some viruses and see if they help against the new virus, 2) use drugs like Redmesivir which are still protected by patent, and one drug company will become infinitely rich while people and countries pay through the nose for it, 3) develop a new drug at great cost and spend months putting it through all the necessary clinical trials to get it approved for mass consumption, 4) lock down everything and everyone so that no one gets the virus but you destroy the economy in the process, while you wait for a vaccine (months for certain, possibly a year or more), 5) let the virus run it's course and just treat as many people as you can and eventually herd immunity will protect what's left of the population. If you choose option 5, you can take antibodies from people who successfully fought the virus and inject them into a select few people but 98% of the population won't have access to this level of treatment in 2020.  

Which option would you prefer Boges? Obviously option number 1 is the best option by far, if it works. A drug like HCQ is off-patent so every drug company in the world can manufacture it, royalty-free, and it's been in circulation for so long that it doesn't need new FDA approval. It would be incredibly cheap, and could help the entire planet right away.

The main problem with HCQ is that Trump talked about it before Cuomo, so it became imperative that the mainstream media and the Dems demonize the drug in every way possible right from the start. Millions of people with absolutely no knowledge of medicine instantly clung to all of these new theories the second that they popped out, and pimped them like they were gospel truth and they knew EXACTLY wtf they were talking about:

"People died drinking fish-tank cleaner!!!!! TRUMP KILLED THEM!!!!" 

"Initial studies which which showed success weren't proper clinical trials!"

"People go blind from HCQ!!!"

"Trump is getting rich off of HCQ!!!!"

"HCQ can cause heart failure!!!!"

"HCQ has a billion side effects, and they're all really bad!"

"A new study which was conducted in the most perfect way in the whole history of drug trials just conclusively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's no useful application for HCQ against covid whatsoever!"

Every single item above IS either an outright lie, or a gross exaggeration of the reality. Only really stupid people instantly belched those things out the second they heard them.

Hundreds of drugs were tried, not just HCQ. There's a reason that almost all of them were discredited immediately. There's obviously a reason that more than 1 doctor on the planet saw some promise in HCQ. FYI its not imperative that HCQ trials cease this instant. Grow up. HCQ might help right at the onset of symptoms in some sick people with co-morbidities. Maybe it does work as a prophylactic. Maybe it helps people who are exposed to the virus kill it within their system and develop immunity to it. I don't know all the possibilities, but I know that actual virologists saw promise in it. Maybe you should have a bit more faith in them than Nancy Pelosi. 

The FACT is that you do not know. Do you? 

Stop acting like you know. Literally no one does, and millions of people are far too eager to lie about it.

Have you considered the possibility that someone just wants to get really rich off of a vaccine, by saving us all from a virus that kills 80 yr olds with co-morbidities and .001% of the rest of the population? We need to figure out exactly what the death rate is among infected people before we keep this panic session rolling at full gallop. 

A lot of what you said is reasonable. If there is evidence that HCQ can be helpful to reduce hospitalizations, then I agree, use it where applicable, under a doctor's supervision. 

But, like with everything, Trump has to double down, muddy the waters and create confusion. 

On Monday he said he was using it as a prophylactic! That's not the intended use of the drug in any way, shape or form. Not even half-ass studies have been done for that. 

He says nurses are using it. There's no evidence that any nurses or other front-line workers are using it. 

He can force the White House doctor to write him a prescription, but most can't. So now MAGA-heads are going to go to their doctor and demand a prescription for a drug for a purpose it wasn't intended for a disease it hasn't been tested much on. 

BTW I think he's lying, no way he's taking it. He's just like creating chaos. I guess that's how he thinks he's owning the Libs. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Boges

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

If it is as you say, he can't, not much point in discussing that. There is some merit to the idea that one should be cautious when implementing a sudden and vast change to the way people vote. Or are you not concerned about things like Russian, or other interference?

What's Trump paranoid about, Deepstate operatives in the US Postal Service intercepting ballots and rigging the outcome?

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The alternative could also be... postponing the election.

Funny how any suggestion that would be the likelier alternative months ago was written off as paranoid. I admit I didn't know what the nature of the galvanizing event would be but I was always certain there would be one.

Edited May 21, 2020 by eyeball

[New World Disorder]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

Anyone want to talk about Trump trying to withhold funding (which he can't do) to stop states from allowing absentee balloting? 

He's really afraid of people. . . you know. . . actually voting. 

And that was just the application for an absentee vote, and not the vote itself.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

I don't believe you. Cite some studies that show that HCQ is effective in preventing COVID-19. 

The  medical  experts all say  that there is NO evidence  that  HCQ   helps at all  in this  viral pandemic.  No evidence that it  helps prevent it,  treat  it   or helps with   the symptoms. Trump is on some kind of personal crusade to "prove" something........that has to do with HIM.  He is behaving  irresponsibly   and the things he says  sometimes are sheer lunacy.........(as in mentally deranged)  Whether  he is actually  taking the drug  is hard to tell.........as he is a a pathological liar. He is a germaphobe , and is paranoid about what he eats.......... and yet  thinks he knows better than the experts. He won't  wear a mask  for vanity reasons and  has as much as said so. HIS  Appearance is everything to him. He thrives on rule breaking ,  chaos, and vindictive  behavior   He demands loyalty , while  providing none in return........ The number of people that he has fired....has  only  fostered  more chaos , uncertainty.........  and disorganization.   He is not a "leader" for  a cohesive  teamwork,  productivity,           He is to unpredictable   and volatile. He is not the kind f role model   that  the young should aspire to. All this is observable  for all to see.  His sanity  should be questioned....... in an objective  and factual way. Is he a harm t o himself or other s.??    Yes.......  By taking this drug he is  being reckless.   to himself  and setting a dangerous example t the  population........ particularly the MAGA heads  who  take everything  he does and says as  "gospel' He has gained a LOT of control over them.

[Guest]

Quote

Anyone want to talk about Trump trying to withhold funding (which he can't do) to stop states from allowing absentee balloting? 

He's really afraid of people. . . you know. . . actually voting. 

He can't   ,psychologically, deal with   losing.   He now wants to  control  how the voting takes place.Sadly  he does not have an ethical bone in his skeleton. and will do ANYTHING to win.  His binary  thinking allows only  win/ lose,.  Good/bad    .....and  prevents  a higher level of conceptualization. His extreme  narcissism  is a  factor ......in everything he says and does.He has gotten away with so much    and that has  just reinforced his belief   in  himself. If a democratic POTUS   tried any of what he does.......... he would have been thrown  out of office long ago.    Those are the "American  ' political standards"........in living color.

 

Regardless.......this coming"election"  is going to be interesting...........IF it takes place.  There  is no way of knowing what underhanded  tricks  Trump has in mind.. His base  will support him no matter what he   does. And will do as he asks,.......and not even question it. That is "loyalty"

[bush_cheney2004]

President Trump's fear of losing re-election is far exceeded by the fear of Trump haters should he win another term.    They will become even more rabid as the election nears, even in Canada (I guess because it matters so much to some Canadians...go figure.)

ON HCQ...battle lines were already formed before Trump's announcement:

 

Quote

Hydroxychloroquine Has about 90 Percent Chance of Helping COVID-19 Patients

In a letter to Gov. Doug Ducey of Arizona, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) presents a frequently updated table of studies that report results of treating COVID-19 with the anti-malaria drugs chloroquine (CQ) and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ, Plaquenil®).

To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.

 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

A lot of what you said is reasonable. If there is evidence that HCQ can be helpful to reduce hospitalizations, then I agree, use it where applicable, under a doctor's supervision. 

But, like with everything, Trump has to double down, muddy the waters and create confusion. 

On Monday he said he was using it as a prophylactic! That's not the intended use of the drug in any way, shape or form. Not even half-ass studies have been done for that. 

He says nurses are using it. There's no evidence that any nurses or other front-line workers are using it. 

He can force the White House doctor to write him a prescription, but most can't. So now MAGA-heads are going to go to their doctor and demand a prescription for a drug for a purpose it wasn't intended for a disease it hasn't been tested much on. 

BTW I think he's lying, no way he's taking it. He's just like creating chaos. I guess that's how he thinks he's owning the Libs. 

Pretty much everybody is muddying the waters on everything nowadays. On CNN they don’t say a word without attempting to muddy the waters.

I did hear mention of people potentially using hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic when Dr. Oz was talking about it.
 

Where hydroxychloroquine has a conflict with other drugs, I think that it’s mostly the other drugs that are the main issue. Those cholesterol/blood pressure/diabetes medications don’t mix well with anything because they have such serious side effects even on their own.

If you went and asked a pharmacist about using Lipitor and what the side effects of that drug are, and the complications of using it with other drugs, I think that there would be a long list of really scary things to mix with Lipitor. 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Pretty much everybody is muddying the waters on everything nowadays. On CNN they don’t say a word without attempting to muddy the waters.

I did hear mention of people potentially using hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic when Dr. Oz was talking about it.

Where hydroxychloroquine has a conflict with other drugs, I think that it’s mostly the other drugs that are the main issue. Those cholesterol/blood pressure/diabetes medications don’t mix well with anything because they have such serious side effects even on their own.

If you went and asked a pharmacist about using Lipitor and what the side effects of that drug are, and the complications of using it with other drugs, I think that there would be a long list of really scary things to mix with Lipitor. 

A TV Doctor and POTUS really shouldn't be who people should be going to for Medical advice. 

[Tdot]

7 hours ago, Boges said:

I don't believe you. Cite some studies that show that HCQ is effective in preventing COVID-19. 

No matter how much the MSM hoodwinked you, about Trump...this is good enough for me:

Quote

"I'm taking it – hydroxychloroquine," the president told reporters during a roundtable with restaurant leaders in the White House’s State Dining Room.

He added: "I think it's good. I've heard a lot of good stories. And, if it's not good, I'll tell you right, I'm not going to get hurt by it."

The president added that he consulted with the White House physician before starting to take the drug. Dr. Sean Conley, the president's physician, announced in a statement Monday night, "After numerous discussions he and I had about regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks."

 

[WestCanMan]

28 minutes ago, Boges said:

A TV Doctor and POTUS really shouldn't be who people should be going to for Medical advice. 

Dr Oz is a cardio-thoracic surgeon. Are you kidding me? He is qualified to talk about the dangers of using or combining medications as anyone is.

And just because Trump is just a POTUS doesn’t mean that he can’t make an informed decision. That’s pure idiocy. 
 

Youre ofer 2 there Boges. 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Boges said:

A TV Doctor and POTUS really shouldn't be who people should be going to for Medical advice. 

That is the understatement oft the year.

[Tdot]

21 minutes ago, Pacifica77 said:

That is the understatement oft the year.

It is also the falseSTATEMENT of the year, if you were to treat Trump fairly over this:

 

Quote

"I'm taking it – hydroxychloroquine," the president told reporters during a roundtable with restaurant leaders in the White House’s State Dining Room.

He added: "I think it's good. I've heard a lot of good stories. And, if it's not good, I'll tell you right, I'm not going to get hurt by it."

The president added that he consulted with the White House physician before starting to take the drug. Dr. Sean Conley, the president's physician, announced in a statement Monday night, "After numerous discussions he and I had about regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks."

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Pretty much everybody is muddying the waters on everything nowadays. On CNN they don’t say a word without attempting to muddy the waters.

I did hear mention of people potentially using hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic when Dr. Oz was talking about it.
 

Where hydroxychloroquine has a conflict with other drugs, I think that it’s mostly the other drugs that are the main issue. Those cholesterol/blood pressure/diabetes medications don’t mix well with anything because they have such serious side effects even on their own.

If you went and asked a pharmacist about using Lipitor and what the side effects of that drug are, and the complications of using it with other drugs, I think that there would be a long list of really scary things to mix with Lipitor. 

Have you talked to a pharmacist  or  a virologist   about the use  o f HQ?  What about   complications from mixing  drugs that should not be mixed??   Given that  the older  people are the most vulnerable....... it i s also a fact that most  elderly   are on  drugs one one kind or another .      What about people who are allergic to  it?/ or some component of it?  It seems  totally irresponsible  to  play with powerful drugs  on a "Maybe it will help"  basis. Most of all...it is grossly irresponsible  to  make  any drug a political issue. It is a health  issue . but now there is noting  but confusion   and  That helps NO ONE.  People just come p with their own   ideas based on their  preconceived beliefs. or  who  they choose to follow   as their thinking fits their  own.  This is a HEALTH  crisis..........and we must rely on  HEALTH  professionals.  Not some  politician  who have  their own motives.

 

If you don't like CNN.......why do youwatch it??  

Edited May 21, 2020 by Guest

[Tdot]

1 hour ago, Pacifica77 said:

  

If you don't like CNN.......why do youwatch it??  

 

uhhhh Because the only way to defeat, Satan, is by knowing how Satan thinks? ... gotta go view Satan in order to learn how Satan thinks

...

Quote

Have you talked to a pharmacist  or  a virologist   about the use  o f HQ?

President Trump did.  And here's what happened:

 

Quote

The president added that he consulted with the White House physician before starting to take the drug. Dr. Sean Conley, the president's physician, announced in a statement Monday night, "After numerous discussions he and I had about regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks."

 

Although there is nothing wrong with what you read above, the deceitful MSM has psyched many people into thinking that everything is wrong with it ... to a point where you've actually talked yourself into thinking Trump did something fatally stupid. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Pacifica77 said:

Have you talked to a pharmacist  or  a virologist   about the use  o f HQ?  What about   complications from mixing  drugs that should not be mixed??   Given that  the older  people are the most vulnerable....... it i s also a fact that most  elderly   are on  drugs one one kind or another .      What about people who are allergic to  it?/ or some component of it?  It seems  totally irresponsible  to  play with powerful drugs  on a "Maybe it will help"  basis. Most of all...it is grossly irresponsible  to  make  any drug a political issue. It is a health  issue . but now there is noting  but confusion   and  That helps NO ONE.  People just come p with their own   ideas based on their  preconceived beliefs. or  who  they choose to follow   as their thinking fits their  own. 

I talked about the commonly-used medications of the elderly with co-morbidities a few posts up. The side effects of the Cholesterol/Heart/Diabetes medications are pretty serious. 

Quote

This is a HEALTH  crisis..........and we must rely on  HEALTH  professionals.  Not some  politician  who have  their own motives.

Health professionals.... like Tam and Hajdu? LMAO. They were as useless as tits on a boar in this crisis. "Don't block international travel, don't wear masks." They even made a point to call Trump's travel ban racist. Do you think they had a motive to say that? Yeah, for sure those Drs had motives and they weren't altruistic in nature. 

What was Trump's motive P77? I just gotta know lol. 

Quote

If you don't like CNN.......why do youwatch it??  

I don't watch it, but I see clips of their coverage in FB posts and on shows that I watch. There are also a lot of posters here who regurgitate CNN screed on a daily basis. Global News also repackages CNN talking points as their own screed.

Unfortunately I don't have to watch CNN to know what they're saying. You can't get away from it if you live in Canada.

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

What's Trump paranoid about, Deepstate operatives in the US Postal Service intercepting ballots and rigging the outcome?

More like Russian or Chinese interference. But then that would not concern a communist supporter, as some on the west coast are well-known to be. It's a fact. China is just a boat ride away.

Quote

Funny how any suggestion that would be the likelier alternative months ago was written off as paranoid. I admit I didn't know what the nature of the galvanizing event would be but I was always certain there would be one.

And the people will accept it willingly because they know, now only a strongman can save us.

Edited May 22, 2020 by OftenWrong