America under President Trump

[Boges]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

Bill Clinton is just as bad, no arguments there. But then we also have Hillary sticking with him through it and lied on his behalf, a great fit for Secretary of State.   And for JFK I am not aware of sexual assault allegations. Care to help me understand that?

Yer right, who cares if dirty old men feel up women and girls. He's not the POTUS!  Again, stupid argument Boges.

Looks like Barbara has stuck with George. 

This is a thread about Trump. Talking about other Presidents is stupid thread drift. 

 

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

This is a thread about Trump. Talking about other Presidents is stupid thread drift. 

Not necessarily, if it gives a context to the current president. Some commit their adultery or molestation while in office, some may have done it before. But getting back on topic, let's discuss what Donald Trump actually has done while in office that is illegal, or just offensive and wrong.

Edited November 3, 2017 by OftenWrong
sticky keys

[Argus]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Not necessarily, if it gives a context to the current president. Some commit their adultery or molestation while in office, some may have done it before. But getting back on topic, let's discuss what Donald Trump actually has done while in office that is illegal, or just offensive and wrong.

Does pressuring the Justice Department to investigate his political opponents count?

Edited November 3, 2017 by Argus

[OftenWrong]

10 minutes ago, Argus said:

Does pressuring the Justice Department to investigate his political opponents count?

Not always.

[Argus]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Not always.

In fact, it always does.

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

In fact, it always does.

You didn't qualify the circumstances. Asking for an investigation is certainly not a crime. If there is reasonable evidence that a crime was committed, the thing should be investigated, doesn't matter who did it even if it was the president or the secretary of state or whoever. It depends what you mean specifically by "pressure".

If you mean the tweets, Trump admits to saying things to deliberately get a rise out of people. But those tweets are not executive orders, most of them are just incendiary BS with no follow up. They have no teeth. Based on his own admission I suspect they're not even supposed to. In that light they can only be called offensive and "wrong".

But I asked what has he actually done, not his self-admitted rhetoric.

[OftenWrong]

Interesting development-

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) says she agrees with Donna Brazile's claim that the Democratic primary was rigged against Bernie Sanders by Hillary Clinton's campaign.

Quite surprised she would be so candid about this.
Video here-

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/11/02/elizabeth-warren-dnc-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-lead.cnn

Question asked at 1:20

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, Argus said:

In fact, it always does.

What about obstruction of justice, and trying to kill an investigation ?  The equation of such a thing as that to 'adultery' by a sentient individual, and not a drooling baby, makes me fear for democracy... 

[bush_cheney2004]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

....But I asked what has he actually done, not his self-admitted rhetoric.

 

Agreed...those who are so butt-hurt over what President Trump has said or tweeted to the point of imagining abuses and crimes are only acting out in very partisan ways.   The same people will dismiss actions by President Obama's administration as no big deal (e.g. IRS targeting of specific political groups).   The Trump administration actually had to settle the many lawsuits pending from Obama's watch on this alleged abuse of power.

[Michael Hardner]

17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The same people will dismiss actions by President Obama's administration as no big deal

Agreed that Obama got a pass on a few things, notably to my mind the increase in extrajudicial assassination via drone strikes.  However, the phenomenon you accurately capture is part of the problem.  If Trump makes it through without a larger change in the political ecosystem then presumably we will be presented with a Democrat president who will leverage the institutional damage already wrought to extend his (her?) power over checks and balances.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

... If Trump makes it through without a larger change in the political ecosystem then presumably we will be presented with a Democrat president who will leverage the institutional damage already wrought to extend his (her?) power over checks and balances.

 

 

It has always been thus...why would it be any different for Trump ?

FDR (Democrat), considered one of the greatest U.S. presidents, leveraged such damage in ways that Trump can only read about in history books.   The dramatic fits over Trump's behaviour and actions have been so frequently overblown to date, it diminishes any impact desired.   

Yes, even Donald Trump will come to be normalized, just like all the rest.

Edited November 4, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

It has always been thus...why would it be any different for Trump ?

I'm saying that in this respect, it's not.

22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

FDR (Democrat), considered one of the greatest U.S. presidents, leveraged such damage in ways that Trump can only read about in history books.   The dramatic fits over Trump's behaviour and actions have been so frequently overblown to date, it diminishes any impact desired.   

I would say that we haven't seen as dramatic a change up until now.  And as such, we will have to see what comes.  Agreed on the dramatic fits and I fully admit to being infected with TDS.  Unfortunately for all, I am a human and not a robot.  

22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Yes, even Donald Trump will come to be normalized, just like all the rest.

If normalized means 'explained and put in a book with somewhat-satisfactory causal explanations' then sure but that says zero about where we are today.

[bush_cheney2004]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

....I would say that we haven't seen as dramatic a change up until now.  And as such, we will have to see what comes.  Agreed on the dramatic fits and I fully admit to being infected with TDS.  Unfortunately for all, I am a human and not a robot. 

 

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the policies and actions of FDR's adminstration(s)...very big changes that were fought every step of the way...some failed in the courts.  

Just because Trump is in the here and now does not raise his antics to such impactful and lasting levels on the United States and other nations.    All that has changed is the immediacy of reporting and social media.  (FDR even controlled the nation's radio stations with threats to their license renewals.)

 

Quote

If normalized means 'explained and put in a book with somewhat-satisfactory causal explanations' then sure but that says zero about where we are today.

 

But it does....consider that millions of people in the U.S. (and elsewhere) were so biased and detached from reality they would not and could not consider even the possibility that "despicable" Donald Trump would win the presidential election.  

Edited November 4, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the policies and actions of FDR's adminstration(s)...very big changes that were fought every step of the way...some failed in the courts.  

You seem to have misunderstood what I said: "I would say that we haven't seen as dramatic a change up until now. "

That is to say, I think the FDR changes were dramatic and big.
 

36 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Just because Trump is in the here and now does not raise his antics to such impactful and lasting levels on the United States and other nations.    All that has changed is the immediacy of reporting and social media.  (FDR even controlled the nation's radio stations with threats to their license renewals.)

You can say both "these changes are big" and "these changes are overblown".  You can even say "these changes are huge, monumental, the biggest... and still are overblown".  They are overblown because it sells to overblow things.  To say we are in an era of no rights, that we are certain to have nuclear war, that there is no hope.  I hear such things, and they are overstatements.

 

36 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

But it does....consider that millions of people in the U.S. (and elsewhere) were so biased and detached from reality they would not and could not consider even the possibility that "despicable" Donald Trump would win the presidential election.  

Well, all it says ... is that this too will pass.  Not much wisdom and little comfort too.  I don't see what else it says.  We could still suffer, or we could prosper also, from the current situation.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

...You can say both "these changes are big" and "these changes are overblown".  You can even say "these changes are huge, monumental, the biggest... and still are overblown".  They are overblown because it sells to overblow things.  To say we are in an era of no rights, that we are certain to have nuclear war, that there is no hope.  I hear such things, and they are overstatements.

 

Agreed...they are overstatements that appeal to those who respond to such drama, including Trump, who told his critics he would do exactly such things to keep the focus on him.   He will do the same thing in Asia over the next 10 days.

 

Quote

Well, all it says ... is that this too will pass.  Not much wisdom and little comfort too.  I don't see what else it says.  We could still suffer, or we could prosper also, from the current situation.

 

Nobody can or will suffer as much as those who have come before this time.   That's why I find such hand wringing over Trump to be so self-serving and ridiculous.   Some people do not have or choose not to have objective moorings on such things, ignoring history, and giving Trump the power to push them over the edge.

Donald Trump is just another American president.

 

[GostHacked]

20 hours ago, Boges said:

Looks like Barbara has stuck with George. 

This is a thread about Trump. Talking about other Presidents is stupid thread drift. 

 

Apparently when these two yahoos criticize Trump, it's not thread drift! 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/the-last-republicans-bush-book/index.html

From the Senior groper himself and his mentally ill son.

Quote

Former President George H.W. Bush has a blunt assessment of Donald Trump: "He's a blowhard." And his son, former President George W. Bush, has harsh words for his Republican successor as well: "This guy doesn't know what it means to be president."

I'll chalk it up to his dementia that he has no idea what the fack he is talking about.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1.  Nobody can or will suffer as much as those who have come before this time.    

2. Some people do not have or choose not to have objective moorings on such things, ignoring history, and giving Trump the power to push them over the edge.

3. Donald Trump is just another American president.

1. & 3. That remains to be seen but I hope you are right.

2. And then there are people like me, who are BOTH pushed over the edge, and aware of our irrationality.  The loathing is thus directed outwardly and inwardly.  Pity me.

[Argus]

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Apparently when these two yahoos criticize Trump, it's not thread drift! 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/the-last-republicans-bush-book/index.html

From the Senior groper himself and his mentally ill son.

I'll chalk it up to his dementia that he has no idea what the fack he is talking about.

Trump is a blowhard. You'll have a hard time finding anyone sane who would honestly deny it. He's also a groper, an adulterer, a pervert, a compulsive liar, a hedonist, a braggart, a narcissist, and a witless, immature, ignorant, bullying moron. And I say all that not to be insulting but because it's my honest assessment of the man's character - or lack thereof.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Argus

[GostHacked]

On 11/3/2017 at 2:22 PM, Boges said:

Looks like Barbara has stuck with George. 

This is a thread about Trump. Talking about other Presidents is stupid thread drift.

No problem, we would not want to point out your inconsistencies in your stance/argument.  That would look terrible for you.

[GostHacked]

22 hours ago, Argus said:

Trump is a blowhard. You'll have a hard time finding anyone sane who would honestly deny it. He's also a groper, an adulterer, a pervert, a compulsive liar, a hedonist, a braggart, a narcissist, and a witless, immature, ignorant, bullying moron. And I say all that not to be insulting but because it's my honest assessment of the man's character - or lack thereof.

Well, the funny thing is I agree with you on Trump, he's a trianwreck. But I absolutely love it at the same time.

[eyeball]

57 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Well, the funny thing is I agree with you on Trump, he's a trianwreck. But I absolutely love it at the same time.

I agree, he's definitely the best thing to happen to US politics in a long long time.

He does the right wing the same sort of favour some PC university students do for the left - underscoring the more ridiculous edges that need to be trimmed.

Edited November 5, 2017 by eyeball

[-TSS-]

One year on after Trump's election-victory and today a couple of governor's elections won by Democrats is interpreted as a vote of no-confidence for Trump. How many governor's elections did the Democrats lose during eight years of Obama?

[Cum Laude]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 1:13 PM, eyeball said:

I agree, he's definitely the best thing to happen to US politics in a long long time.

He does the right wing the same sort of favour some PC university students do for the left - underscoring the more ridiculous edges that need to be trimmed.

The two-minute meeting between Trump and Putin in Vietnam plunged the Clinton Mass Disinformation Media into a state of hysteria – they simply do not know what to lie, especially given that in a couple of weeks the Washington Post journalists and their ilk in Moscow will be forced to register as foreign agents and provide corresponding information about themselves, including about the money and about the cookies.

Under the threat of jail if attempted to lie.

Such thing was unheard of even in the USSR and I’m sure that Trump asked for a meeting with Putin precisely because of this. And for him such meeting was fraught from the very beginning, but if a couple of dozen American journalists in Moscow are jailed, here will be such howling that Hawking’s predictions will be fulfilled ahead of schedule.

And they canceled the meeting because it was possible to agree on something without an encounter, which for Trump really is fraught.

However, a simple handshake of Putin and Trump was enough to cause an incredible squeal in the Goebbels style: some screams that Trump and Putin still met secretly and spent the night together, cutting off the carcass of Ukraine, some lie that Putin cried when he learned that Trump will not meet him, some argues that Trump founded a cult in his name, and some discovered the secret protocols of the marriage contract.

The only thing that is not a lie is that Trump in the dispute over Russian interference in the election campaign of 2016 supported the Putin’s version, not the US intelligence(?) community. And the president’s son-in-law went so far as to suggest in view of the results of this campaign to fire half of CNN.

An alternative version is that Trump asked Putin for a meeting because of the exacerbation of the North Korean threat, but canceled it after talking with Chairman Xi, but I do not believe that Trump is so stupid that he thinks he can do without Russia in the Korean question, no matter what Xi promises.

[OftenWrong]

On 05/11/2017 at 2:13 PM, eyeball said:

He does the right wing the same sort of favour some PC university students do for the left - underscoring the more ridiculous edges that need to be trimmed.

Actually he, among others, demonstrates that extremism in all its forms has now gone mainstream. You can trim the edges but there's no centre.

[Cum Laude]

12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 

 

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 1:13 PM, eyeball said:

 

 

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 1:13 PM, eyeball said:

I agree, he's definitely the best thing to happen to US politics in a long long time.

He does the right wing the same sort of favour some PC university students do for the left - underscoring the more ridiculous edges that need to be trimmed.

Today I watched a circus number on CNN performed by Jake Tapper with two tamed spies – former CIA director John Brennan and former director of National Intelligence James Clapper, and I got a full impression that in the ranks of Clinton Nomenklatura Jake is much higher up then both spies, despite John Brennan’s effort to help levitate his carrier by converting to Wahhabism.