Smallc Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Argus said: Same answer. If holders of Canadian passports who were born in one of the seven pariah states can get into the US why wouldn't holder of Swedish and UK passports not be treated similarly? UK passport holders now can as off about an hour ago. They couldn't before that. However, it all comes down to the DHS and CBP. Edited January 29, 2017 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, kactus said: There you go... It'll get ironed out. They will do what Trump's people tell them to do. 300,000 people came into the US yesterday, according to some senator I saw interviewed. About 100 were temporarily detained and 81 of those have already been cleared to come in. Yet all over the west progressives are running around squealing like stuck pigs. Edited January 29, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Argus said: The great majority of the people on this planet live in places where the government could be loosely described in the same way. Are we to shun them all and not trade with them? Refusing to sell arms or equipment to the Saudis would accomplish nothing of value. They'd simply buy them elsewhere. I wouldn't go that far. There are only a few regimes who grossly violate human rights. They Take away rights from half their population (women) and torture, rape and murder their own citizens for opposing their oppressive rule. Torture students, imprison their activists, house arrest the opposition, murder their supporters, jail academia, students, ban unions and jail and torture their own people all in the name of national security whereas in really they are only protecting their own asses a little longer. Edited January 29, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) In summary it is wrong to discriminate or punish any group of people based on race, religion or national origin. Especially in this the nations chosen by Trump have no say or fault in the actions of their governments and more specifically when certain nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and UAE who are fiercely anti-American are not among the chosen nations, Clearly it is a political move by Trump's gangsters. This is same ideology that Hitler and his gang believed in and America helped to defeat them and those Americans who died in the World War II or fought in it are turning in their graves to see this day in America. Trump is following Hitler's path and almost a century later when the world is much more civilized compared to 1930's. Americans may not realize it now (though many do) but they will later. Some control is needed but individuals regardless of national origin should be assessed and judged individually at the US visa centers or embassies based on their individual beliefs not the color of their passport or the color of their skin. Trump is stupid and whoever supports him blindly is also stupid and blinded by hate. Edited January 29, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 51 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: In summary it is wrong to discriminate or punish any group of people based on race, religion or national origin. Especially in this the nations chosen by Trump have no say or fault in the actions of their governments and more specifically when certain nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and UAE who are fiercely anti-American are not among the chosen nations But is it wrong to protect your borders when dealing with largely failed states filled with violence and war where the governments have only partial control over the country? Six of the seven fall into that category. The seventh is a declared enemy of the US which sponsors terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 23 minutes ago, Argus said: But is it wrong to protect your borders when dealing with largely failed states filled with violence and war where the governments have only partial control over the country? Six of the seven fall into that category. The seventh is a declared enemy of the US which sponsors terrorism. The odd thing about Iran is that its citizens have little interest in terrorism once they reach the US, as the record clearly shows, and the 'state-sponsored terrorism' is generally local, in Asia. There's something amateurish and capricious about springing this move both on travelers and on US officials who have to enforce it. Information could have been gathered first and then people could have been given fair warning it was coming. For Canadian recruiters, this could be good news. We may see some professionals with sought-after skills looking north for jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Argus said: But is it wrong to protect your borders when dealing with largely failed states filled with violence and war where the governments have only partial control over the country? Six of the seven fall into that category. The seventh is a declared enemy of the US which sponsors terrorism. As for seventh it is the state which is a declared enemy of the US not the nation. And again this too all comes down to politics. They survive only if they create an enemy somewhere.... Again each individual should be interviewed at the Visa center and if assessed a risk then that individual should be barred from entering US not the whole nation based on the color of their passport. Citizens of the seventh are doing quite well in the US and barring them was a mistake. I remind you and others that terrorist attacks carried out ON AMERICAN SOIL has NOT been carried out by any citizen of the seventh country but by other countries NOT in the Trump's list like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt and UAE. Edited January 30, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Argus said: It'll get ironed out. They will do what Trump's people tell them to do. 300,000 people came into the US yesterday, according to some senator I saw interviewed. About 100 were temporarily detained and 81 of those have already been cleared to come in. Yet all over the west progressives are running around squealing like stuck pigs. Early days yet. The numbers detained and deterred from coming will mount up over the next four years. Some border wiseguy is alleged to have told a person to 'call Mr. Trump' if they had any complaints. Try a joke like that on one them and what sports they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 35 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: There's something amateurish and capricious about springing this move both on travelers and on US officials who have to enforce it. Information could have been gathered first and then people could have been given fair warning it was coming. Get used to it. Amateurish and capricious are going to be the norm from this administration. 35 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: For Canadian recruiters, this could be good news. We may see some professionals with sought-after skills looking north for jobs. Yeah, because we get so many whiz kids coming out of Yemen and Somalia. Canada immigration says the immigrants to Canada from the middle east are the worst economic performers of all the immigrants we get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Canadian technology executives are making plans to capitalize on U.S. President Donald Trump’s immigration orders, using the new president’s crackdown to help their efforts to recruit skilled workers from overseas. 9 minutes ago, Argus said: Yeah, because we get so many whiz kids coming out of Yemen and Somalia. Canada immigration says the immigrants to Canada from the middle east are the worst economic performers of all the immigrants we get. Tech companies disagree with you. Who is likely to be right? The tech companies who are looking for people, or some retired guy posting on the internet? Quote Canadian technology executives are making plans to capitalize on U.S. President Donald Trump’s immigration orders, using the new president’s crackdown to help their efforts to recruit skilled workers from overseas. American Tech companies have employees affected by this ban. It would appear that not everybody in these countries are the uneducated idiots you assume they are. Quote Google parent Alphabet Inc. told staff travelling overseas who may be impacted by the president’s executive order to return to the U.S. Bloomberg News reported that Google chief executive Sundar Pichai slammed Trump’s move in a note to employees Friday, telling them that more than 100 staff are affected by the order. Netflix CEO Reed Hastings said on Facebook the president’s actions were “hurting Netflix employees around the world, and are so un-American it pains us all.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: We don't now what levels of cooperation these other nations are providing for counter-terrorism compared to those on the list. The Saudis are fighting a proxy war with Iran (e.g. Yemen). The U.S. government is not going to provide a list of criteria and scoring for each country in the world for obvious reasons. I expect that President Trump's national security team is relying on intel and threat assessments already developed by the previous administration since he has only been in office for a week. You're a funny guy. Trump just removed the DNI and the Chair of the joint chiefs as permanent members of the NSC. In their place he put a white supremacist with no experience in either government or security; but plenty of experience in drumming up hatred against those who are not white and Christian. You can go ahead and tell yourself there is some secret genius behind Trump's moves but you're in complete denial. The US, for the second time in modern history, is under the control of an old man not in complete command of his faculties. Only, this time, he's surrounded himself by a team of complete nutbars. Time to join the survivalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, dialamah said: Canadian technology executives are making plans to capitalize on U.S. President Donald Trump’s immigration orders, using the new president’s crackdown to help their efforts to recruit skilled workers from overseas. Tech companies disagree with you. Who is likely to be right? The tech companies who are looking for people, or some retired guy posting on the internet? First of all, not that it has much to do with the conversation, I would refuse permission for tech companies to hire anyone from abroad except in exceptional circumstances. You want an engineer? Hire one here or train one. Don't like it? Leave. Second, I am quoting a study done by Immigration Canada, so I would think they would know. And third, the reason tech companies are so eager to hire people from abroad is because they can pay them less, and boss them around, and make them work long hours with no overtime. Edited January 30, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said: You're a funny guy. Trump just removed the DNI and the Chair of the joint chiefs as permanent members of the NSC. In their place he put a white supremacist with no experience in either government or security; but plenty of experience in drumming up hatred against those who are not white and Christian. Former White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten said last year that President George W. Bush instructed his top political adviser, Karl Rove, never to appear at a National Security Council meeting. It wasn't that Bush didn't value Rove's counsel, Bolten said – clearly he did. "But the president also knew that the signal he wanted to send to the rest of his administration, the signal he wanted to send to the public, and the signal he especially wanted to send to the military, is that 'the decisions I'm making that involve life and death for the people in uniform will not be tainted by any political decisions," Bolten remembered. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/29/512295108/with-national-security-council-shakeup-steve-bannon-gets-a-seat-at-the-table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: Get used to it. Amateurish and capricious are going to be the norm from this administration. Yeah, because we get so many whiz kids coming out of Yemen and Somalia. Canada immigration says the immigrants to Canada from the middle east are the worst economic performers of all the immigrants we get. I have worked with excellent physicians from Syria, Iraq and Iran and would consider myself lucky to do so again. Your immigration data may not be detailed enough to reflect that reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, bcsapper said: Second, Trump has changed a lot. America, like a lot of countries, has had unpopular poiticians before. It's part of democracy. But it has now joined the ranks of those countries who have a complete idiot in charge. Usually that comes about due to a revolution, or coup, or some other non democratic means. Being loved by other nationals is a Canadian value...not American. U.S. history is filled with idiots as president, as is Canada for PM. President Trump's decisions are consistent with many other presidents who wish to rule by executive order with or without backing from a party controlled Congress. The long view does not see Trump as remarkable at all, not even in populist style (see President Andrew Jackson)...Lincoln...or FDR. American politics does not stay consistent and polite just to give other nationals warm and fuzzy feelings. Edited January 30, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Smallc said: Apparently, DHS is not allowing Canadians with dual citizenship in the 7 countries to cross the border. I say again...no foreign national has the right to U.S. entry. They can be stopped at the border for any reason...or no reason at all. This was true long before Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: ... I remind you and others that terrorist attacks carried out ON AMERICAN SOIL has NOT been carried out by any citizen of the seventh country but by other countries NOT in the Trump's list like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt and UAE. U.S. embassies have been attacked by terrorists and sponsors from some of the seven nations. President Trump is doing what he said he would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, ReeferMadness said: ....You can go ahead and tell yourself there is some secret genius behind Trump's moves but you're in complete denial. The US, for the second time in modern history, is under the control of an old man not in complete command of his faculties. Only, this time, he's surrounded himself by a team of complete nutbars. Time to join the survivalists. This is your problem, not mine. I do not live in constant fear and concern about domestic or foreign policies in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Some control is needed but individuals regardless of national origin should be assessed and judged individually at the US visa centers or embassies based on their individual beliefs not the color of their passport or the color of their skin. Trump is stupid and whoever supports him blindly is also stupid and blinded by hate. That's what they're trying to do. They've put a temporary ban in order to put in place the kind of screening they want to do. You wonder how the San Bernardino housewife managed to get in despite having some red flags. A nation has the right to choose which ones they want to allow in their country. Being allowed entry in a country, is a privilege....not a right. Edited January 30, 2017 by betsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: In summary it is wrong to discriminate or punish any group of people based on race, religion or national origin. Especially in this the nations chosen by Trump have no say or fault in the actions of their governments and more specifically when certain nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and UAE who are fiercely anti-American are not among the chosen nations, Clearly it is a political move by Trump's gangsters. This is same ideology that Hitler and his gang believed in and America helped to defeat them and those Americans who died in the World War II or fought in it are turning in their graves to see this day in America. Your comparison to Hitler is wrong. Hitler demonized, and stripped the Jews of their humanity. Heck, he planned their genocide. The Jews wanted to leave - but he wouldn't let them. He wanted all of them dead! On the other hand, it's the opposite with Trump. Trump is trying to have security for all Americans (and that includes all Muslim-Americans). Non-American Muslims want to come in! Do you see the contradiction with Hitler? Jews wanted to leave. Muslims want to get in! Entry to a country is not a right! It is a privilege. Edited January 30, 2017 by betsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Think the green card holder ban was a mistake? Think again. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Smallc said: Think the green card holder ban was a mistake? Think again. Yep...the holy grail for foreign nationals...to get a "Green Card"....permanent U.S. residency. They fight hard to get one...have seen it in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: We don't now what levels of cooperation these other nations are providing for counter-terrorism compared to those on the list. The Saudis are fighting a proxy war with Iran (e.g. Yemen). The U.S. government is not going to provide a list of criteria and scoring for each country in the world for obvious reasons. I expect that President Trump's national security team is relying on intel and threat assessments already developed by the previous administration since he has only been in office for a week. So Trump is banning Iranians because they are fighting another country? The country that has produced and funded Al Qaeda and ISIS? America First! Perhaps the reason he isn't banning people from Saudi, UAE and Egypt is because he has Trump towers there. Edited January 30, 2017 by marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I'm wondering if this whole business with the travel ban isn't a form of language to the rest of the world that trump will do what he wants and he don't care who he offends doing it. As well as trump showing the world he does things different than Obama and that when he says he is going to do something he will either do it or make it appear he's doing it. its more about trump showing the world he is in charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 They've already had to walk back at least 3 parts of the ban (US residents, Canadian citizens and residents, and UK citizens) just as they had to walk back their Mexico wall talk when Pena Nieto called Trump's bluff. There's no strength - only chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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