Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[Smallc]

You're looking at Scotland's current economy as part of the UK......

And you're pulling numbers out of thin air.

[Bryan]

And you would be wrong too.......a devalued dollar would be a good thing if we were a China, namely a manufacturing based economy, but alas we're not..........and that of course doesn't even touch imports with a low Canadian dollar, be they destined for businesses or consumers, that is what creates inflation.......Canada is a net exporter of commodities and a net importer of consumer goods......Now what you suggest might be a positive for certain segments in our economy, like tourism for example, but overall it is not.

I'm not wrong. A low dollar is better for almost anyone who sells any good, commodity or service to anyone outside of Canada, especially if they sell in US dollars. In nearly all cases, your profit increases automatically.

I will say this again, feel free to answer it (Argus sidestepped it), if a low Canadian dollar is good for our economy, a Canadian dollar that is pegged to commodities, why is our current economy seen as worse off today then it was several years ago?

1) Low oil prices.

2) Liberal federal government.

3) NDP Alberta government.

We'd be in far worse shape right now if the dollar was high too.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Bryan

[kactus]

According to google the two most searched questions the day after the Brexit for leave camps were:

1- How can you get an irish passport?

2- What does 'EU' stands for?

Hmmm....

[kactus]

The only "Schadenfreude" that will be the remnant of this referendum is the legacy it has left for younger generations for years to come...

The leave camp which was eschewed towards grey market had this preconception of good old Great Britain when it had a relatively stable manufacturing base and old coal mine industry. With all that gone post Maggie legacy we are now left with a service based industry as a country that is heavily reliant on EU. So these so called "older generations" can dream about the Great Britain as they thought back then but the reality today is something completely different....

Even before the massive surge of Eastern Europeans to UK there were many jobs available to Brits...The reality is a big sub-section of this society is quite happy to sit on their a** to collect their 'paycheck' dole from the government and not bothering to do a job whilst a Pole or other immigrants will happily do it simply because they are willing to work...

Edited June 28, 2016 by kactus

[SpankyMcFarland]

And you would be wrong too.......a devalued dollar would be a good thing if we were a China, namely a manufacturing based economy, but alas we're not..........and that of course doesn't even touch imports with a low Canadian dollar, be they destined for businesses or consumers, that is what creates inflation.......Canada is a net exporter of commodities and a net importer of consumer goods......Now what you suggest might be a positive for certain segments in our economy, like tourism for example, but overall it is not.

I will say this again, feel free to answer it (Argus sidestepped it), if a low Canadian dollar is good for our economy, a Canadian dollar that is pegged to commodities, why is our current economy seen as worse off today then it was several years ago? Very simple answer, but it refutes your orthodoxy......

In relation to Brexit.......is the sinking pound and Euro considered a result of a "good economy"?

I really don't know enough about currency valuations to have an opinion but...my ill-informed guess is that, over the long term, they are reflection of economic reality more than anything else. The pound has probably been overvalued as evidenced by the massive trade deficit there. A lower pound will tend to reduce imports and make the UK more competitive. People will be poorer but there will be more jobs. It will certainly tend to reduce Irish imports to Britain.

It was interesting that Northen Irish voters ignored the strange Leave message of the largest Unionist party. They could see the danger of a bigger border in Ireland on multiple fronts, not least for peace.

Edited June 27, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[Wilber]

Pound and markets continue to sink, EU says get on with it but Leave supporters say there is no rush. Now they have had their little tantrum and got what they wanted, the Leave camp has no clue what to do with it and world has to put up with this nonsense while they try an get their act together. Well done England. Think small, that'll do it.

[Icebound]

xxx

The English only voted for short term chaos as institutions are disrupted and uncertainty rules. Once the dust settles and England negotiates a new free trade agreement with the EU there is no reason to believe England will not succeed as a state.

I will be very interested to see what sort of "new free trade agreement with the EU" that UK will be able to negotiate.

Most people look at "Norway is not in the EU and they are doing fine"..... but Norway IS pretty much in the EU in all but name only... including the free movement of goods and people, AND including the "Schengen Area" arrangement.

Since free movement of people appears to be a non-starter for the UK, then I am afraid there is not much that the EU will be interested in negotiating.

(Added on edit)

In the end, any "not-in-the-EU" FTA worthwhile, will probably look (and cost) pretty much what being "IN" the EU would cost, only without the vote, and with years, if not decades, of lost time.

...

Edited June 27, 2016 by Icebound

[Wilber]

If the Pound keeps tanking, there isn't much from the EU that the Brits will be able to afford.

[TimG]

Since free movement of people appears to be a non-starter for the UK, then I am afraid there is not much that the EU will be interested in negotiating.

Kicking the UK out of the trading block will hurt the remaining EU countries too because trade is a two way street. The existence of NAFTA shows that an agreement to allow the movement of skilled labour is all that is required and EU insistence on free movement of everyone is hard to justify.

Of course, the EU could react with the same emotionalism and irrationality that they use the UK of and refused to budge on their previous positions.

Edited June 27, 2016 by TimG

[TimG]

If the Pound keeps tanking, there isn't much from the EU that the Brits will be able to afford.

The pound is still trading higher than it was 5 years ago against the Euro.

[Wilber]

On the other hand, with the UK no longer a member, other EU countries have an opportunity to poach on preserves that were formerly British, like the financial sector. They may be seeing this as an opportunity.

[Wilber]

The pound is still trading higher than it was 5 years ago against the Euro.

We are only into day 2. The question is which currency will recover first, if at all.

[TimG]

We are only into day 2. The question is which currency will recover first, if at all.

I don't see the point of speculating at this time. No one knows how the future will evolve. There is no guarantee that things will work out for the better but there is also no guarantee that things will work our for the worst.

I generally think that breaking up sovereign states is a really dumb idea but the EU is not really a sovereign state and the UK already has most of what it needs to be free of the EU (such as a separate currency). This means the probability of things working out for the better is higher than for cases like Scotland or Quebec.

[Argus]

I will say this again, feel free to answer it (Argus sidestepped it), if a low Canadian dollar is good for our economy, a Canadian dollar that is pegged to commodities, why is our current economy seen as worse off today then it was several years ago?

The C$ is not 'pegged' to commodity prices, but is impacted by them. Commodity prices have fallen, which has impacted how much of them we can sell and the prices we get for them. THAT is what has impacted both our economy AND our dollar. Our economy has not gotten worse because the C$ fell. In fact, the fall of the C$ has helped ease the economic harm to Canadian commodity producers while making life easier for Canadian manufacturers and the tourist industry.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Argus

[-TSS-]

The young voters can blame only themselves; the turn-out in the 18-24 age-group was dismally low at 36%. I wonder how many youngsters who didn't bother to vote are now crying out loud how their future has been stolen.

All in all, the Brexit is a bigger blow to the remaining EU than it is for Britain. It is laughable to suggest that a major important country and the world's fifth largest economy couldn't handle on its own outside the EU when minnows such as Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are doing just fine.

It all comes to the exit-negotiations what kind of a deal will be reached between the EU and departing Britain. It would also be helpful to already know who's the next British PM who will lead the negotiations.

[G Huxley]

"It's definitely becoming more about quality of life, something that will make money secondary when it becomes harder to come by."

Then if its all about selfish anthropocentric 'quality of life,' then one must be ecologically minded as quality of life is directly tied to ecology.

"No, it's against conservative right-wingers. Destroying the ME was their stupid idea."

But its not just to conservative right wingers. Neoliberal center leftists e.g. Blair and Hollande have also participated in this (as well as the left e.g. the former Soviet Union) and the result is you are destroying your culture as a result of your schadenfreude towards one element of it. In that aspect you are much like the right wingers who want to destroy middle eastern culture in revenge.

"My so-called pro-immigrant policies have been the same for decades; that every human being should be able to move as freely around the planet as a corporation..."

Would you apply the same logic to rats, siphylis, HIV, polio, cane toads etc?

I'm not happy about the environmental ramifications but that ship's long since sailed too so...the only thing that will ever rescue our environment now is if we find our humanity but I don't think we'll find that until we hit rock bottom."

No the only thing that will ever rescue the environment now is if we get rid of our humanity. The overcoming of humanity.

Edited June 27, 2016 by G Huxley

[eyeball]

Get rid of humanity, or the vast majority of it. That'll be the real ticket.

But better someone else than me or mine of course.

Edited June 27, 2016 by eyeball

[kactus]

"It's definitely becoming more about quality of life, something that will make money secondary when it becomes harder to come by."

Then if its all about selfish anthropocentric 'quality of life,' then one must be ecologically minded as quality of life is directly tied to ecology.

"No, it's against conservative right-wingers. Destroying the ME was their stupid idea."

But its not just to conservative right wingers. Neoliberal center leftists e.g. Blair and Hollande have also participated in this (as well as the left e.g. the former Soviet Union) and the result is you are destroying your culture as a result of your schadenfreude towards one element of it. In that aspect you are much like the right wingers who want to destroy middle eastern culture in revenge.

"My so-called pro-immigrant policies have been the same for decades; that every human being should be able to move as freely around the planet as a corporation..."

Would you apply the same logic to rats, siphylis, HIV, polio, cane toads etc?

I'm not happy about the environmental ramifications but that ship's long since sailed too so...the only thing that will ever rescue our environment now is if we find our humanity but I don't think we'll find that until we hit rock bottom."

No the only thing that will ever rescue the environment now is if we get rid of our humanity. The overcoming of humanity.

Tony Blair definitely wasn't a leftist nor did he have leniency towards left...

Even within his cabinet he was known for his rightwing policies that very much resembled Tories and little about his policies set him apart...I don't know where you get this that makes you think he was a lefty!!!

Edited June 27, 2016 by kactus

[eyeball]

He probably thinks Stalin was also a bleeding-heart progressive.

/facepalm.

[Guest]

Well, at least there's a silver lining...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-world-s-wealthiest-people-lost-over-120-billion-after-brexit-vote-a7105221.html

[-TSS-]

Both British main parties are cut down the middle concerning the EU-issue. That kind of rules out the idea of an early election. Cameron jumped out of the sinking ship and the Labour-party leader Corbyn is facing critisism over the issue. It must be said that the politicians surely haven't made this thing easier, especially Cameron whose move to quit was rather chicken-shit.

[taxme]

People are being "disinvited" by their "friends" because of the vote... https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/746730000079069184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

...

Then they probably were not real friends anyway.

[Icebound]

Then they probably were not real friends anyway.

The whole point of "civilization" is that you do not have to be "real friends" to get along. If 100 people show up at my street party, I doubt that all of them are "real friends".... but they get along.

Britain has started on a dangerous road of NOT getting along.... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-referendum-racial-racism-abuse-hate-crime-reported-latest-leave-immigration-a7104191.html

[TimG]

The whole point of "civilization" is that you do not have to be "real friends" to get along. If 100 people show up at my street party, I doubt that all of them are "real friends".... but they get along.

WTF? Every country in the world has immigration controls. The leave side specifically held up Canada's points based model as a model to emulate. Arguing that wanting to control borders is the same as racism is a pathetic example the exact hate mongering that you claim to abhor.

Britain has started on a dangerous road of NOT getting along

At this point we don't know if this was a real incident or a remain supporter trying to stir up propaganda in the face of their defeat at the polls.

[taxme]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36626201

Moody's has already cut the UK's credit rating credit outlook to negative. Already things are better, right?

Edited to correct mis-read of article. My bad.

...

A little bump in the road for Britain. Bite the bullet for awhile. Credit rating lowered? No problem. Stop spending tax dollars on the globalists elite and their stupid programs and agendas like multiculturalism and slack off on immigration and taking in refugees for awhile. That should help save hundreds of millions of tax dollars and those tax dollars to be put to fight the fight ahead. There is always a way. Russia and China are always ready to do business. They won't/don't bite.

And I read where the losers want to have another referendum. What a joke. Sure spend more millions of tax dollars just because the no side lost. This is what I mean about most taxpayer's. Most do not have a clue about money. They say let the government pay for it but they seem to always over look the fact that they are the government. This is why countries are broke and in debt. The taxpayer's don't give a dam what their politicians are doing with their tax dollars.