Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[Wilber]

Yeah, and of the billions lost on market volatility yesterday, the vast majority came out of the pockets of the ultra wealthy, the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Of that $2 trillion, over $125 billion of it came out of the pockets of just 400 individuals. Those "losses" weren't in the form of jobs and income from regular working people. It was based on the effect of stock prices and exchange rates and the assets held by the wealthiest individuals, the biggest corporations, the top hedge-funds... I simply don't believe that progressive started caring about the stock market portfolios of the ultra-wealthy in the past week.

Why did those stock prices fall so much anyway? Ultimately, it's because shareholders believed that their stocks would become less valuable as companies lose ways of cutting jobs, acquiring cheap labor, outsourcing jobs, finding tax loopholes, and finding ways of shielding their wealth. Shareholders dumped their stocks yesterday for reasons that should make progressives cheer.

-k

And 1.875 trillion came out of everyone else's portfolios and pension plans.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Wilber

[Wilber]

Wouldn't stay too attached to the moniker UK. This result was a gift from God to Scots and Irish nationalists. In five years the Union flag might be a museum piece with nothing but the Cross of St. George flying over Westminster. This was England's decision and England will wear it. What a mess.

[SpankyMcFarland]

It's quite astonishing how the remain-camp managed to create an image that supporting being in the EU was somehow youthful and cool while supporting brexit was for the oldies, the rednecks and the uneducated. After all the EU has become a stale oligarchy run by a small number of inner circle bureaucrats and where the voice of smaller nations is not heard.

As for the talk of another Scottish referendum; that is bullshit. Only goes to show how bad losers the SNP are still two years after the earlier referendum which produced an indisputable result.

What Scotland does will be for Scotland to decide. Brexit changes the game. Like Alberta, it is in a tough spot right now with the collapse in oil prices and probably won't want another referendum immediately. The Scots have clearly voted in favour of Remain as did NI despite the largest party, the DUP, actively campaigning for Leave. London also clearly voted Remain.

The UK is split down the middle on the vote and obviously there are all sorts of voters on either side. However, Leave voters do tend to be older, less well educated, poorer, Christian and more likely to be born in Britain. There's hyperbole on both sides as to what this means exactly. I'm sure many families are divided on their vote.

[Derek 2.0]

Wouldn't stay too attached to the moniker UK. This result was a gift from God to Scots and Irish nationalists. In five years the Union flag might be a museum piece with nothing but the Cross of St. George flying over Westminster. This was England's decision and England will wear it. What a mess.

Not likely.......as it stands, even as it stood two years ago, Scotland wouldn't qualify for EU membership on economic grounds..... absent them retaining the North Sea oil, it lasting forever and its value more than doubling from the present......and all those on economic benefits leaving.......once the Scots stop pissing and moaning, they will then realize, outside of the UK, they are nothing but another Albania with crappier winters........and I still have family in Scotland.

I don't know where Ulster is going to go......the Irish can't afford them and they can't go it alone.

[Wilber]

Not likely.......as it stands, even as it stood two years ago, Scotland wouldn't qualify for EU membership on economic grounds..... absent them retaining the North Sea oil, it lasting forever and its value more than doubling from the present......and all those on economic benefits leaving.......once the Scots stop pissing and moaning, they will then realize, outside of the UK, they are nothing but another Albania with crappier winters........and I still have family in Scotland.

I don't know where Ulster is going to go......the Irish can't afford them and they can't go it alone.

Quite likely. More Scots voted to remain in the EU than to remain in the UK. The odds just went way up.

Got a kick out of Trump. Sits there in Scotland congratulating England for taking back their country knowing it was against the wishes of the Scottish people. What a twit. England, you have just been Trumped.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Wilber

[Derek 2.0]

Quite likely. M

Ulster has been leaving the UK for over a century now.........and Scotland, well, Willy Wallace lost in the end........so no, absent permission from Westminster, Scotland and Ulster aren't leaving.......and from England's perspective its a shame really, as both are a huge drain on Westminster's purse....

[Wilber]

Ulster has been leaving the UK for over a century now.........and Scotland, well, Willy Wallace lost in the end........so no, absent permission from Westminster, Scotland and Ulster aren't leaving.......and from England's perspective its a shame really, as both are a huge drain on Westminster's purse....

Willy Wallace lost but the Bruce won. Don't bet on it not happening again.

[August1991]

What Scotland does will be for Scotland to decide....

There is the euro and the EU. Norway is a member of neither: it has its own currency and pays nothing to the EU.

[jacee]

Britain's economy has little influence on ours. This could actually wind up being good for our economy if we reach a separate trade and sercice agreement with the UK.

I think it's in everybody's interest to make the best of it.

And for all you complaining that people are judging progressives you haven't come up with any reasons for their indignation and anger over this.

Playing the race card, manipulating gullible people with fear.

Who benefits from that?

.

[Wilber]

As far as Ireland goes, this could be the best thing that has happened to the Republic in a long time. Companies are already talking about relocating from London to Dublin.

[Wilber]

There is the euro and the EU. Norway is a member of neither: it has its own currency and pays nothing to the EU.

Not true.

http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/Financial-contribution/#.V289dFf7WFI

[Derek 2.0]

Willy Wallace lost but the Bruce won. Don't bet on it not happening again.

There is nothing to bet on.....Scotland had its referendum and voted to stay.....the UK, including Scotland got their say on staying in the EU, the UK has elected to leave....forget for a second that during the EU referendum Scotland was only bested by Ulster for worse voter turnout.

So no, there is currently no legal way Scotland is leaving the UK, nor, based on current EU economic rules, would it be aloud to join the European Union.......absent North Sea oil......with unfettered borders with the UK.......with the use of the British pound....etc etc.......Scotland is the proverbial teenager, without a job or a penny to its name, threatening to leave home.

Ulster is even worse off.....Absent the largess of Her Majesty's Government, Northern Ireland would be a third world country.

[kimmy]

And 1.875 trillion came out of everyone else's portfolios and pension plans.

Yeah, a big portion of it no doubt came from the next 400 wealthiest people on earth, and the 1000 after that, and the 2000 after them.

These aren't even real losses we're talking about. These figures are based purely and entirely upon stock prices plunging in wake of a referendum. We're not talking about 2 trillion dollars worth of wages that have been cut, or 2 trillion dollars worth of goods and services that won't be produced this year. We're talking about a change in stock prices. Is Apple really worth $25 billion dollars less than they were 2 days ago? Did one of their products bomb? Did they lose key patents? Was one of their factories demolished by a meteor or something?

-k

[Wilber]

Yeah, a big portion of it no doubt came from the next 400 wealthiest people on earth, and the 1000 after that, and the 2000 after them.

These aren't even real losses we're talking about. These figures are based purely and entirely upon stock prices plunging in wake of a referendum. We're not talking about 2 trillion dollars worth of wages that have been cut, or 2 trillion dollars worth of goods and services that won't be produced this year. We're talking about a change in stock prices. Is Apple really worth $25 billion dollars less than they were 2 days ago? Did one of their products bomb? Did they lose key patents? Was one of their factories demolished by a meteor or something?

-k

It came from every individual and pension plan who holds equities as part of their portfolios. Many pension plans went under and most were under funded after the 08 market meltdown. People were saying, get rid of defined benefit pension because they are dragging companies down. Most of the ones that survived have returned to being fully funded in the last couple of years because of the market recovery. They provide good pensions and don't cost companies a dime. Anyone with an RRSP has taken a hit and so has the CPP which also has a percentage of its capital in the equity markets.

Yes, Apple is worth 25 billion less than it was two days ago, it is the market that determines what Apple is worth and that is exactly what people are willing to pay for Apple shares. Not a penny more.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Wilber

[SpankyMcFarland]

Ulster has been leaving the UK for over a century now.........and Scotland, well, Willy Wallace lost in the end........so no, absent permission from Westminster, Scotland and Ulster aren't leaving.......and from England's perspective its a shame really, as both are a huge drain on Westminster's purse....

Ulster was divided in 1921. Three counties - Donegal (actually the northernmost county on the island), Cavan and Monaghan - were included in 'Southern Ireland' and Northern Ireland was created from the other six. So 'Northern Ireland' is the more correct term for the British part of Ireland, not Ulster.

Edited June 26, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[jacee]

Quite likely. More Scots voted to remain in the EU than to remain in the UK. The odds just went way up.

Got a kick out of Trump. Sits there in Scotland congratulating England for taking back their country knowing it was against the wishes of the Scottish people. What a twit. England, you have just been Trumped.

Did you see the comments?

Hilarious.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2787023/donald-trump-gets-social-media-thrashing-for-scottish-brexit-tweet/

My faves ...

They're all my faves.

you couldn't be more out of touch with reality if Nessie bit you on the arse you utter fool.

proof that you're a cockwomble of the highest order!

bolt ya hamster heedit bampot, away and boil yer napper

??

incorrigible,ignoramus,nincompoop tweet that can only come from a bumbling inglorious punchinello wag

soggy expired dog food coupon.

you utter Twonk. Who is using the Trump family brain cell today?

And the winner is ...

bankrupt traffic cone

?

That one's got legs. ?

.

Edited June 26, 2016 by jacee

[Wilber]

There is nothing to bet on.....Scotland had its referendum and voted to stay.....the UK, including Scotland got their say on staying in the EU, the UK has elected to leave....forget for a second that during the EU referendum Scotland was only bested by Ulster for worse voter turnout.

So no, there is currently no legal way Scotland is leaving the UK, nor, based on current EU economic rules, would it be aloud to join the European Union.......absent North Sea oil......with unfettered borders with the UK.......with the use of the British pound....etc etc.......Scotland is the proverbial teenager, without a job or a penny to its name, threatening to leave home.

Ulster is even worse off.....Absent the largess of Her Majesty's Government, Northern Ireland would be a third world country.

Scotland can hold another referendum, just like Quebec. I think you are delusional, this is only the beginning and if you are looking to people like Boris Johnson to put Humpty together again, I think you will be disappointed.

[SpankyMcFarland]

As far as Ireland goes, this could be the best thing that has happened to the Republic in a long time. Companies are already talking about relocating from London to Dublin.

There is a lot to worry about as well for RoI. The U.K. is her biggest trading partner and this could be seriously affected by new tariffs and a devaluation of sterling. There is also the worry of renewed tensions on the border with NI, which makes the DUP campaign for Leave even more inexplicable.

Regarding relocation, I'll believe it when I see it. If the EU forces banks out of London, a lot of the better paid jobs will go to Frankfurt etc. rather than Dublin. Fluent English is commonplace these days but banking expertise remains concentrated in a few cities.

Edited June 26, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[Wilber]

There is a lot to worry about as well for RoI. The U.K. is her biggest trading partner and this could be seriously affected by new tariffs and a devaluation of sterling. There is also the worry of renewed tensions on the border with NI, which makes the DUP campaign for Leave even more inexplicable.

Regarding relocation, I'll believe it when I see it. If the EU forces banks out of London, a lot of the better paid jobs will go to Frankfurt etc. rather than Dublin. Fluent English is commonplace these days but banking expertise remains concentrated in a few cities.

Could be, hard to find a Dutchman who can't speak English. Language won't be much of an issue.

[Wilber]

Did you see the comments?

Hilarious.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2787023/donald-trump-gets-social-media-thrashing-for-scottish-brexit-tweet/

My faves ...

They're all my faves.

you couldn't be more out of touch with reality if Nessie bit you on the arse you utter fool.

proof that you're a cockwomble of the highest order!

bolt ya hamster heedit bampot, away and boil yer napper

?

incorrigible,ignoramus,nincompoop tweet that can only come from a bumbling inglorious punchinello wag

soggy expired dog food coupon.

you utter Twonk. Who is using the Trump family brain cell today?

And the winner is ...

bankrupt traffic cone

That one's got legs.

.

Boris and the Donald will get along great.

[SpankyMcFarland]

L

As to why some favored remaining, I would assume, like anything, change scares people.......the EU, and before that the Common Market, have been apart of the British make-up for decades, so there are generations that haven't known any different. Inversely, those old enough to remember Britain prior to the Common Market, will remember a place and time that had just won a World War but was in steady decline with the divestment of the Empire and retrenchment back to the Suez.........to say nothing of high unemployment, rationing and a general malaise brought upon by post war British socialism ( "Old Labour") .

Given that the Conservative Party was continuously in power from 1951 until 1964, I think the blame can be shared. In fairness, the war really knocked the stuffing out of Britain and the country was still recovering in the Sixties. Many of the city centres still looked like the Germans had just paid a visit. It were grim lad.

[kimmy]

It came from every individual and pension plan who holds equities as part of their portfolios. Many pension plans went under and most were under funded after the 08 market meltdown. People were saying, get rid of defined benefit pension because they are dragging companies down. Most of the ones that survived have returned to being fully funded in the last couple of years because of the market recovery. They provide good pensions and don't cost companies a dime. Anyone with an RRSP has taken a hit and so has the CPP which also has a percentage of its capital in the equity markets.

Yes, Apple is worth 25 billion less than it was two days ago, it is the market that determines what Apple is worth and that is exactly what people are willing to pay for Apple shares. Not a penny more.

Apple still has the same strengths and weaknesses they had Wednesday. I expect that before long people will be looking at this price drop as a buying opportunity. There have been many stock market dips and dives over the years. As Tim said earlier... if it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Yes, the stock markets affect most of us to some degree... but they affect the super-rich to a far greater degree than they affect Average Joe. The guy picking bottles out of the dumpster next door probably wasn't affected much by the Brexit.

Yes, I know that my own retirement savings will take a modest, temporary hit from this. I survived 2008, I will be just fine this time around. The difference between now and 2008 is that there was an actual economic meltdown going on in 2008, and here in 2016 we only have a bunch of anxiety and hand-wringing from people whose vested interests are most directly impacted.

-k

[kimmy]

EU is more than just a free-trade agreement. Ridiculous starting point, but if you must - there is no direct negative global impact in not ratifying TPP in the same way as there is with Brexit so of course I will view them differently. You're comparing apples and oranges.

For the Remain side it was always about finances but you continue to say you know better than them what they're thinking.

But our politicians and business leaders tell us that there will be direct negative impact on us if we don't ratify TPP. Aside from Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump they seem unanimous on the point.

When I look at reactions like Jacee's, how can I not think that anger over the xenophobes winning is what's really burning people up over this result?

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

.....Yes, I know that my own retirement savings will take a modest, temporary hit from this. I survived 2008, I will be just fine this time around. The difference between now and 2008 is that there was an actual economic meltdown going on in 2008, and here in 2016 we only have a bunch of anxiety and hand-wringing from people whose vested interests are most directly impacted.

There was plenty of warning and opportunity to move investments to the sidelines before the vote. ETF outflows were obvious and well communicated in business media. Still, Brexit is nothing compared to the fantastic market crash opportunity that was available in 2008....bring that on again please !

[Wilber]

Apple still has the same strengths and weaknesses they had Wednesday. I expect that before long people will be looking at this price drop as a buying opportunity. There have been many stock market dips and dives over the years. As Tim said earlier... if it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Yes, the stock markets affect most of us to some degree... but they affect the super-rich to a far greater degree than they affect Average Joe. The guy picking bottles out of the dumpster next door probably wasn't affected much by the Brexit.

Yes, I know that my own retirement savings will take a modest, temporary hit from this. I survived 2008, I will be just fine this time around. The difference between now and 2008 is that there was an actual economic meltdown going on in 2008, and here in 2016 we only have a bunch of anxiety and hand-wringing from people whose vested interests are most directly impacted.

-k

The markets affect all of us. Even the guy picking bottles out of the dumpster relies on people who earn and support the economy. If you are young and have time, this is temporary. If you live off of your investments or will be having to in the near future, or your income is from a pension plan, this isn't a philosophical discussion, it is today's reality.