Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[Derek 2.0]

Ulster was divided in 1921. Three counties - Donegal (actually the northernmost county on the island), Cavan and Monaghan - were included in 'Southern Ireland' and Northern Ireland was created from the other six. So 'Northern Ireland' is the more correct term for the British part of Ireland, not Ulster.

The geographic location that comprises the six counties has been called Ulster far longer then there was a United Kingdom or Republic of Ireland......so Ulster, especially for a Republican, is the "more correct term"..........

[Derek 2.0]

Scotland can hold another referendum, just like Quebec. I think you are delusional, this is only the beginning and if you are looking to people like Boris Johnson to put Humpty together again, I think you will be disappointed.

You're calling me delusional? Name the statute that gives Scotland the legal right to hold another referendum.....I'll give you a hint, there isn't one. The Edinburgh Agreement between Holyrood and Westminster was but a one shot deal to settle the question once and for all......there was no provision for a "do-over".

[TimG]

there was no provision for a "do-over".

Leaving the EU is a material change in circumstances. Scotland can argue for another referendum. Edited June 26, 2016 by TimG

[Wilber]

You're calling me delusional? Name the statute that gives Scotland the legal right to hold another referendum.....I'll give you a hint, there isn't one. The Edinburgh Agreement between Holyrood and Westminster was but a one shot deal to settle the question once and for all......there was no provision for a "do-over".

What's England going to do about it if they do decide to have a referendum and it passes, impose martial law and force them to stay? 1745 all over again.

[Derek 2.0]

Leaving the EU is a material change in circumstances. Scotland can argue for another referendum.

They can argue until they are blue in the face, but there is no legal basis........a "change in material circumstances" is subjective and despite a ~62-38% vote in favor of staying in the EU, just over 60% of Scots voted on Brexit......The SNP's sole reason for being is Scottish independence, so it should come as no surprise that they are calling at another kick at the can.

Inversely, the conditions have clearly changed.......the SNP can't promise North Sea oil.....or the use of the pound.......or continued mobility rights between Scotland and the rest of the UK..... or continued trade agreements ..etc...or even membership into the EU.

Don't get me wrong, England proper would be much better off without Scotland (or Northern Ireland), but the SNP's promises two years ago were outlandish, with the same promises now, under these circumstances, they are pure fiction.

[Derek 2.0]

What's England going to do about it if they do decide to have a referendum and it passes, impose martial law and force them to stay? 1745 all over again.

Sure, if it came to that, and they have a working blueprint for exactly that......

[Wilber]

Sure, if it came to that, and they have a working blueprint for exactly that......

Wonder what the Scots will call their version of the IRA. ISIS might become the least of England's worries.

[Derek 2.0]

Wonder what the Scots will call their version of the IRA. ISIS might become the least of England's worries.

The Scots don't share a border with a sympathetic neighbor, nor do they have a benevolent Colonel in a far flung desert nation sending them weapons......A "Scottish revolution" could be put down by canceling money transfers to Scotland used to pay for welfare and pensions.

[marcus]

Here is a perspective that I agree with:

The majority vote by Britons to leave the European Union was an act of raw democracy. Millions of ordinary people refused to be bullied, intimidated and dismissed with open contempt by their presumed betters in the major parties, the leaders of the business and banking oligarchy and the media.

This was, in great part, a vote by those angered and demoralised by the sheer arrogance of the apologists for the “Remain” campaign and the dismemberment of a socially just civil life in Britain. The last bastion of the historic reforms of 1945, the National Health Service, has been so subverted by Tory and Labour-supported privateers it is fighting for its life.

A forewarning came when the Treasurer, George Osborne, the embodiment of both Britain’s ancient regime and the banking mafia in Europe, threatened to cut £30 billion from public services if people voted the wrong way; it was blackmail on a shocking scale.

Immigration was exploited in the campaign with consummate cynicism, not only by populist politicians from the lunar right, but by Labour politicians drawing on their own venerable tradition of promoting and nurturing racism, a symptom of corruption not at the bottom but at the top. The reason millions of refugees have fled the Middle East – first Iraq, now Syria – are the invasions and imperial mayhem of Britain, the United States, France, the European Union and Nato. Before that, there was the wilful destruction of Yugoslavia. Before that, there was the theft of Palestine and the imposition of Israel.

Edited June 26, 2016 by marcus

[G Huxley]

Indeed very right sir!

Back then jews were considered a threat and were murdered in masses for just being jewish. There was no distinction if colour skin. Today the same sentiment is rising in europe and elsewhere against "brown skinned" people aka moslems....

Muslims are a threat. I'd advise extensive travels through the Middle East to confirm for yourself.

[G Huxley]

Well that's the sense people have alright but they were doomed decades ago by globalization.

We're all doomed by globalization. The realization hasn't quite hit you yet, what Globalization's endgame is.

"That's all this Brexit vote is about, giving vent to an economic angst that's been building around the developed world. The focus and debate around on immigration and refugees masks the larger debate that is apparently absent from the demagogues rhetoric and their constituencies questions - why and how did the world become so beset with refugees and immigrants in the first place?"

Of course, this is the fallout of stupidity, but the other side of the stupid coin is the people who want all the immigrants and refugees. So there are two sides to this insane coin.

Edited June 26, 2016 by G Huxley

[G Huxley]

Here is a perspective that I agree with:

The majority vote by Britons to leave the European Union was an act of raw democracy. Millions of ordinary people refused to be bullied, intimidated and dismissed with open contempt by their presumed betters in the major parties, the leaders of the business and banking oligarchy and the media.

This was, in great part, a vote by those angered and demoralised by the sheer arrogance of the apologists for the “Remain” campaign and the dismemberment of a socially just civil life in Britain. The last bastion of the historic reforms of 1945, the National Health Service, has been so subverted by Tory and Labour-supported privateers it is fighting for its life.

A forewarning came when the Treasurer, George Osborne, the embodiment of both Britain’s ancient regime and the banking mafia in Europe, threatened to cut £30 billion from public services if people voted the wrong way; it was blackmail on a shocking scale.

Immigration was exploited in the campaign with consummate cynicism, not only by populist politicians from the lunar right, but by Labour politicians drawing on their own venerable tradition of promoting and nurturing racism, a symptom of corruption not at the bottom but at the top. The reason millions of refugees have fled the Middle East – first Iraq, now Syria – are the invasions and imperial mayhem of Britain, the United States, France, the European Union and Nato. Before that, there was the wilful destruction of Yugoslavia. Before that, there was the theft of Palestine and the imposition of Israel.

Excellently put!

[SpankyMcFarland]

The geographic location that comprises the six counties has been called Ulster far longer then there was a United Kingdom or Republic of Ireland......so Ulster, especially for a Republican, is the "more correct term"..........

Historically, you are correct. Ulster has been restive about its place in the British state for a hundred years, actually for more like eight hundred. It's just that NI and Ulster are not precisely synonymous any more. Ask anybody in Donegal.

Edited June 26, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[kactus]

I agree. What one government has done another government can do - or undo. As the repercussions of a possible Brexit become more clear, the public sense (and especially those millions who chose to not vote) can change very quickly. There is nothing written in stone that locks the next PM and/or government into processing a leaving.

If Scotland and Northern Ireland start to show signs of independence and thereby staying in EU, the attitudes may indeed shift once the reality, both social and financial, become clear.

You bet your bottom Canadian dollar that will be the case....There is already over a million petition signed for EU referendum rule triggering a 2nd EU referendum

[kactus]

On that note about immigration what is it in essence to be British the bleeding far rights are winging about?

This parliamentary speaker puts it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Ois9_gOt0

[?Impact]

... or at least quoted John Pilger

The last bastion of the historic reforms of 1945, the National Health Service, has been so subverted by Tory and Labour-supported privateers it is fighting for its life.

Yes, the front and centre point made by the leave campaign, the one and only point emblazoned in huge lettering on the side of their campaign bus, was that leaving the EU would put £350 a week into the NHS. We found out, only a couple of hours after the leave side won from Nigel Farage leader of the UKIP that was a "mistake", in other words a big lie.

[Wilber]

The Scots don't share a border with a sympathetic neighbor, nor do they have a benevolent Colonel in a far flung desert nation sending them weapons......A "Scottish revolution" could be put down by canceling money transfers to Scotland used to pay for welfare and pensions.

Yup, the beatings will continue till moral improves. "United" Kingdom, my ass.

[eyeball]

We're all doomed by globalization. The realization hasn't quite hit you yet, what Globalization's endgame is.

Whatever it is if the interest in property in my region is anything to go by I suspect I'll be farting in silk underwear myself.

Of course, this is the fallout of stupidity, but the other side of the stupid coin is the people who want all the immigrants and refugees. So there are two sides to this insane coin.

My interest in immigration is the enjoyment I get from seeing people's noses getting rubbed in their own crap. Anyone who's been paying attention since the 1st Gulf War could see where causing the ME and surrounding region to fail would lead us. We deserve much worse to be perfectly honest.

[sharkman]

Yup, that sounds about like the typical eyeball response. As angry as usual, clapping your hands with glee at the same time, and seeing every event as proof of the giant conspiracy that will bring the world to its total collapse.

[Icebound]

There is the euro and the EU. Norway is a member of neither: it has its own currency and pays nothing to the EU.

Okay... I don't mind disagreement, but this is an outright lie.

In order to get the market access that it does, Norway implements a significant portion of the EU directives. Including movement of goods and people.

And it costs Norway about 290million Euro a year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9383678/Is-Norways-EU-example-really-an-option-for-Britain.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations

Its nice to be "outside" of the EU the way Norway is.... but if the EU actually fails, then there is no market not-to-be-part-of, and Norway is toast.

[Argus]

Directly no, indirectly this whole thing does though.......namely with a plummeting Euro, caused by instability in Europe for the foreseeable future, the Euro itself will no longer be seen as a safe alternative to the greenback. With that more international money will be invested into USD, ergo increasing its value, well ours does the exact opposite.

So how exactly does a weaker Canadian dollar hurt us?

Not at all, we're still a commodity based economy..........if anything this will further weaken the Canadian economy.

How? Do you think that the UK not being a part of Europe is going to result in lower demand for commodities by China?

Perhaps the UK will now be purchasing a lot more agricultural goods from Canada, once they're no longer required to purchase them from the heavily subsidized European Union farmers.

[Argus]

Wouldn't stay too attached to the moniker UK. This result was a gift from God to Scots and Irish nationalists. In five years the Union flag might be a museum piece with nothing but the Cross of St. George flying over Westminster. This was England's decision and England will wear it. What a mess.

Scotland would be even worse off separating from the UK now than it would have been last referendum. The price of its diminishing supply of north sea oil is less than half what it was then, and separating from the UK now would put national borders right in their face, where it wouldn't have before. I have to assume most of their trade is with the UK and now that the UK won't be part of the Eurozone they'd have to have inspections and taxes at the border.

Northern Ireland will never separate from the UK until it's got a majority Catholic population that wants to rejoin the Irish Republic.

[Argus]

Wonder what the Scots will call their version of the IRA. ISIS might become the least of England's worries.

From what I've seen of Scotland over the past dozen years, their version will be called the Milksops.

You know why Nicola Sturgeon is the first minister of Scotland? Because she's the most manly politician Scotland has got.

[eyeball]

Yup, that sounds about like the typical eyeball response. As angry as usual, clapping your hands with glee at the same time, and seeing every event as proof of the giant conspiracy that will bring the world to its total collapse.

I said enjoyment not anger. Miscomprehension is getting to be a hoot too.

[Argus]

You bet your bottom Canadian dollar that will be the case....There is already over a million petition signed for EU referendum rule triggering a 2nd EU referendum

Ah, the left. Democracy is all - unless you lose. Then it's time to do it again - until you win. Then it will be final, of course.