Islamophobia in Canada

[Hal 9000]

Then why couldn't the Conservatives have just pointed the men that were said to be forcing the niqabs on women towards these courses instead of tripping all over themselves trying to avoid the real issue?

Because the issue was never niqabs, women, men or misogyny. It's because they were all Muslim.

"Christians are just as bad as muslims"..."You're a racist"....Good grief, are these the only 2 cards you people can play?

[WestCoastRunner]

It is the belief that our government should be looking after it's own people FIRST, before burdening its taxpayers with the tremendous expense and inconvenience of solving the problems of outsiders.

There are Aboriginals in this country who are living in deplorable, unsanitary conditions in tumble down shacks with no clean water, limited and unaffordable food supplies, lack of educational and health facilities and no hope of

There are low income families who are struggling to survive, desperately in need of affordable housing, going deeper into debt by the month with no hope of a better future due to constantly rising costs.

These unfortunate Canadians will suffer even more when the influx of refugees descends on us.

It couldn't be a worse time to take in hordes of strangers who cannot speak the language, are in need of services that are already overcrowded and for whom there will be very few job opportunities.

Yes, Canadians have good reason to question and resent this refugee plan. These naysaying Canadian are not heartless monsters without sympathy for the plight of the refugees.

Right, and I see Canadians tripping all over themselves helping fellow Canadians.

[Guest]

No, just conservatism.

I really don't think we should be indoctrinating refugees with the views of any political party. Let them make their own choices at the next election.

[WestCoastRunner]

I really don't think we should be indoctrinating refugees with the views of any political party. Let them make their own choices at the next election.

I try to be non partisan as much as I can on this site because I do believe it moves conversations forward at a much more productive pace. Although I do find that it is very difficult to do.

I am in agreement that we should be leaving political ideologies out of the conversation with refugees and instead focus on human values with the emphasis on equality for everyone regardless of their gender, religion, sexual identity etc

[kimmy]

Kimmy, this is just fear mongering.

No, it's a reasonable question. I think it's quite apparent that large scale Muslim immigration into Europe has resulted in some negative outcomes, and I think it's reasonable to ask what we as Canadians can do to avoid seeing the same negative outcomes here in Canada.

-k

[Smallc]

No, it's a reasonable question. I think it's quite apparent that large scale Muslim immigration into Europe has resulted in some negative outcomes, and I think it's reasonable to ask what we as Canadians can do to avoid seeing the same negative outcomes here in Canada.

Based on Canada's experience thus far, it's not likely that such things will happen with any immigrant community in Canada. We already have a large amount of muslim immigrants living close together. It hasn't caused much in the way of grief yet.

[jacee]

There is much more to the anti-refugee sentiment than Islamophobia.

It is the belief that our government should be looking after it's own people FIRST, before burdening its taxpayers with the tremendous expense and inconvenience of solving the problems of outsiders.

There are Aboriginals in this country who are living in deplorable, unsanitary conditions in tumble down shacks with no clean water, limited and unaffordable food supplies, lack of educational and health facilities and no hope of any betterment in the future.

There are multitudes of homeless, jobless and mentally ill who need help desperately.

There are low income families who are struggling to survive, desperately in need of affordable housing, going deeper into debt by the month with no hope of a better future due to constantly rising costs.

These unfortunate Canadians will suffer even more when the influx of refugees descends on us.

With the world economy in a slump, our economy could plummet at any time in spite of the Liberal's rosy outlook. Already people are losing jobs due to the sagging oil industry. As the deficit increases there will be more demand on the already burdened taxpayers to cough up more of their earnings.

It couldn't be a worse time to take in hordes of strangers who cannot speak the language, are in need of services that are already overcrowded and for whom there will be very few job opportunities.

Yes, Canadians have good reason to question and resent this refugee plan. These naysaying Canadian are not heartless monsters without sympathy for the plight of the refugees. They are just people who believe that we should care for our own needy first and that ultimately we will plunge ourselves into the same dire straits as the refugees who are victims of other countries whose governments acted irresponsibly.

Oh ffs.

Tell me notca ... how much work have you done in the past on behalf of "our own needy" ?

Have you lobbied hard for them, or complained about them using your tax dollars?

Did you ever care about them before, or are they just a convenient excuse for xenophobia?

.

[notca]

Right, and I see Canadians tripping all over themselves helping fellow Canadians.

My point exactly! Canadians are all wrapped up in their love affair with JT and the Liberals just now. If JT and the Liberals had paid some attention to needy fellow Canadians it would have been helpful.

I was wondering, if your child (not YOURS, specifically) and a neighbour's child were in the street and a truck was bearing down on them and you had an opportunity to save only one of those children, how many people would choose to save the neighbours child before saving his own? That analogy portrays what we are doing in accepting this great influx of refugees.

It is human nature to protect and look after our own first so what's with Canadians who are so gung ho to save the refugees when they won't make the effort to help the down and outers?

[WestCoastRunner]

No, it's a reasonable question. I think it's quite apparent that large scale Muslim immigration into Europe has resulted in some negative outcomes, and I think it's reasonable to ask what we as Canadians can do to avoid seeing the same negative outcomes here in Canada.

-k

Kimmy, we are not dealing with large scale immigration of refugees. We could easily handle thousands more and I am disappointed that we are not.

[jacee]

Your comparison of the violent passages of the Bible to Islam is not valid.

The violence committed by Christians who focused on the OT has long disappeared into the past. Islam has clung to its ancient tenets unchanged unto the present day.

Sure there are still Christian crazies who question the law and strive to inflict their wrong-headed beliefs on society but they do not kill to uphold their beliefs. The laws of the land forbid such violent actions. Muslims who are born and raised in Islamic countries will naturally be enured to laws they have always lived with.

Some people seem to like bring up the violence of the past as justification for the violence of the presence carried out by Muslims. There is just no comparison. Other religions have evolved to a point of civilized reason. Islam has not.

Well that answers my question.

.

Edited November 24, 2015 by jacee

[drummindiver]

I'm simply reiterating the broad brush observation, by conservative posters, that Islamic people are a lot more conservative than most Canadians.

I'm not happy with the idea of letting more conservative people into the country, conservatism and intolerance go together like peas and carrots. This forum is living proof.

So what exactly is wrong with bringing in refugees and educating them about the pitfalls of conservatism?

Intolerance?

The Liberals on this board are the most intolerant bunch of ppl I have ever debated with. The continuous use of " you people", or the ever popular "of your ilk" are constant reminders that if an opinion isn't shared, the broad stroke brushes of the left will be painting conservatives with the normal "racist" or "bigot".,

Eyeball, why dont' you sail on. Sugar.

[notca]

Oh ffs.

Tell me notca ... how much work have you done in the past on behalf of "our own needy" ?

Have you lobbied hard for them, or complained about them using your tax dollars?

Did you ever care about them before, or are they just a convenient excuse for xenophobia?

.

You are assuming a lot here.

I and many like me have done quite a lot for our own needy . Our efforts to engage the government in any signifigant aid program have fallen on deaf ears. They have money enough to throw in other directions but the places where it is most needed. Putting on a show for the world is their main concern while they sweep the plight of their most needy citizens under the rug or hide them behind the dumpsters. . Individual and small group participation is like trying to fill a bathtub with a dripping tap while the stopper is open.

What have YOU done besides accuse people with realistic concerns of xenophobia? It's pretty damned small to make such an accusation just because some others don't agree with your way of thinking. It's low and uncalled for!

[WestCoastRunner]

You are assuming a lot here.

I and many like me have done quite a lot for our own needy . Our efforts to engage the government in any signifigant aid program have fallen on deaf ears. They have money enough to throw in other directions but the places where it is most needed. Putting on a show for the world is their main concern while they sweep the plight of their most needy citizens under the rug or hide them behind the dumpsters. . Individual and small group participation is like trying to fill a bathtub with a dripping tap while the stopper is open.

What have YOU done besides accuse people with realistic concerns of xenophobia? It's pretty damned small to make such an accusation just because some others don't agree with your way of thinking. It's low and uncalled for!

And why don't we see this played out with Canadians fighting for human rights of native Canadians? Why do so many reservations continually fight for safe drinking water, education, heated homes, healthcare etc. All of a sudden it appears when we are trying to help refugees.

[notca]

And why don't we see this played out with Canadians fighting for human rights of native Canadians? Why do so many reservations continually fight for safe drinking water, education, heated homes, healthcare etc. All of a sudden it appears when we are trying to help refugees.

Well I don't know. Why do you think? And what have you done? It's pretty damned hard for individuals to do anything meaningful when the ones who hold the money and the power work against them.

[kimmy]

So, the only thing I'm cheerleading for is intelligence and reason to win out over bigotry and bias. So far, the race seems pretty tight.

I'd just like to remind everyone of a few facts:

1. The majority of the Paris attackers (including the ringleader) were French and Belgian nationals, not Syrians. They don't even need a visa to come to Canada today. Is someone going to suggest that Europeans are barred from entry to Canada? Or Muslim Europeans?
2. There are already over 1 million Muslims in Canada. If Muslims are inherently dangerous, then it's a bit late.
3. Mass shootings are a common occurrence in a large, heavily armed country that actually borders us. I haven't heard anyone suggest that we prevent "those people" from coming into Canada.

So, maybe it's time to climb out from under the bed, let the people who are in charge of screening refugees do their job and stop living in fear. You should be much more afraid of sugar in your diet than Muslims because it's far, far more likely to kill you.

To respond to your numbered points:

1. I am not talking specifically about Syrian refugees, and I am not talking about terrorism. I'm talking about the aggregate effects of bringing in large numbers of people with views that are in many instances in opposition to Canadian values.

2. Right now Muslims only make up 3% of the population. Do you think Canada would be a better place if they made up a larger percentage of the population? Hypothetically 10% or 30%? Hypothetically, if there were a neighborhood in Canada where 50% of the people were Muslims, would move there?

3. When our gun-loving neighbors to the south come to Canada for a visit, they leave their guns behind. If only we could similarly ask people to leave hateful attitudes behind, I'd be less concerned about bringing in immigrants and refugees from countries where gay people are put to death and women are treated like possessions.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

To respond to your numbered points:

3. When our gun-loving neighbors to the south come to Canada for a visit, they leave their guns behind. If only we could similarly ask people to leave hateful attitudes behind, I'd be less concerned about bringing in immigrants and refugees from countries where gay people are put to death and women are treated like possessions.

-k

What you are doing is fear mongering kimmy. So now you are blaming terrorism in Canada on Anericans? Edited November 24, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

[kimmy]

Kimmy, we are not dealing with large scale immigration of refugees. We could easily handle thousands more and I am disappointed that we are not.

These 25,000 refugees are not the only Muslims coming to Canada this year, and there will be more next year and every year after. I'm not talking about the refugees at all.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

These 25,000 refugees are not the only Muslims coming to Canada this year, and there will be more next year and every year after. I'm not talking about the refugees at all.

-k

I get that. You are talking about non whites.

[Smallc]

I get that. You are talking about non whites.

I have to call you on this - that is not what she's implying at all.

[kimmy]

What you are doing is fear mongering kimmy.

It is not fear mongering to point out that a significant number of Muslims in the countries where we get our immigrants (and refugees) from hold intolerant attitudes toward women and gay people. It is the cold hard truth.

So now you are blaming terrorism in Canada on Anericans?

Good grief. How did you get that out of what I wrote? Take a breath, count to ten, and re-read the comment I was responding to, then read my response, and if you still don't understand what's going on then maybe we can get somebody with hand-puppets to explain it for you.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

I have to call you on this - that is not what she's implying at all.

Well let's let her answer that.

[kimmy]

Well let's let her answer that.

Ok, I'll answer that.

I get that. You are talking about non whites.

This is a baseless, gutless, spineless accusation that's nothing more than attempt to smear me with an accusation of racism. I think less of you as a person for having written it.

Does that answer your question?

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

It is not fear mongering to point out that a significant number of Muslims in the countries where we get our immigrants (and refugees) from hold intolerant attitudes toward women and gay people. It is the cold hard truth.

Good grief. How did you get that out of what I wrote? Take a breath, count to ten, and re-read the comment I was responding to, then read my response, and if you still don't understand what's going on then maybe we can get somebody with hand-puppets to explain it for you.

-k

Kimmy. You can rationalize all you want. The fact is you are being racist.

[WestCoastRunner]

Ok, I'll answer that.

This is a baseless, gutless, spineless accusation that's nothing more than attempt to smear me with an accusation of racism. I think less of you as a person for having written it.

Does that answer your question?

-k

I did answer it.

[kimmy]

I'm not criticizing a race or a skin-tone.

I'm not even criticizing a religion.

I'm criticizing stone-age attitudes that are held by significant numbers of people within the group where we're bringing immigrants and refugees from.

-k