Islamophobia in Canada

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, jacee said:

Then you're an idiot. 

Nobody's attacking you.

Nobody's attacking you either, idiot.

[jacee]

https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7468317-former-mississauga-mayoral-candidate-charged-with-hate-motivated-crime/

Controversial Mississauga resident Kevin J. Johnston has been charged with wilfully promoting hatred toward the Peel Muslim community, Peel Regional Police said Monday, July 24.

The charge relates to information published on “various social media sites” over the past five months, but police would not be  more specific on the content of the postings.

Police said “numerous incidents” were reported to them, sparking the “lengthy” investigation.

Johnston's hatred has notably been directed at students' prayers during school hours, accusing them of "spewing hatred", tearing up a Qur'an at a school board meeting, etc.

The charge of  "willful promotion of hatred" may require repeated incidents, a campaign.

The fact that the Attorney General signed off makes the charges pretty solid.

It is very clear that he discriminates against one religion: He's not attacking Catholic school prayers.

[PIK]

Why the love for Islam that hates women and treats them like crap, but for some reason women just love these guys. And women whine about not being taken seriously.

[Michael Hardner]

You need to go away and study why the West separated church and state.  If you don't believe in that, then you would be better off moving to a theocracy.

It's pretty sad that so many citizens are ignorant of, and have no faith in our great institutions.

[Hydraboss]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

our great institutions

Can you be more specific?  Which "great institutions" are you referring to?  Separation of church and state or something else?

[Hydraboss]

On 7/19/2017 at 8:23 AM, jacee said:

I hope they lock him up and throw away the key.

No law was broken as far as I can tell.

[Hydraboss]

On 7/19/2017 at 7:29 PM, Omni said:

they are not Canadian

Yes, they are.  "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian" https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/a-canadian-is-a-canadian-is-a-canadian-harper-trudeau-spar-over-right-to-revoke-citizenship/article26580135/

[Hydraboss]

On 7/19/2017 at 9:04 PM, jacee said:

There better be serious criminal consequences for their hateful and threatening behaviour.

Again, there can be no criminal consequences as what was done is not criminal in nature.

On 7/19/2017 at 9:04 PM, jacee said:

we should send the dinghy to the far north

That would likely violate their Charter Rights and they would be entitled to......$10.5 million???

On 7/20/2017 at 8:51 PM, dialamah said:

So no problem if a Synagogue gets a message featuring gas ovens and mass graves, its just people being rude?

Technically, yes.

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Hydraboss said:

 Separation of church and state or something else?

Yes.  Separation of church and state, an independent judiciary, freedom of expression and religion.

Too many people lack faith in liberal democracy and our successes, in my opinion.

[Hydraboss]

And that would lead to yet another logical conclusion:

A Canadian citizen's right to ignore another person's expression and ignore another person's religion.  It would also protect Canadian citizens from having another person's expression or religion imposed upon them.  It would also allow a Canadian citizen to openly criticize another person's expression and religion as stupid, corrupt, repugnant, disgusting or immoral.

When a government places a higher importance on one groups expression or religion, it is violating that separation willingly.  And THAT is not a success.

[Argus]

58 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes.  Separation of church and state, an independent judiciary, freedom of expression and religion.

Too many people lack faith in liberal democracy and our successes, in my opinion.

This surprises you? Most of our politicians are cheap hucksters and whores without principles. 

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

This surprises you? Most of our politicians are cheap hucksters and whores without principles. 

Perhaps, but anarchy is a regressive step.

[Argus]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Perhaps, but anarchy is a regressive step.

And who is calling for anarchy or suggest it as an alternative?

[Omni]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

And who is calling for anarchy or suggest it as an alternative?

I guess if you happen to like democracy you'll have to accept the idea of having politicians.

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, Argus said:

And who is calling for anarchy or suggest it as an alternative?

"Too many people lack faith in liberal democracy and our successes, in my opinion."

It's a little surprising that people who are sick of politicians also don't vote, don't understand the relationship of the courts to the government, call for unilateral reactions to localized events, and so on.  Yes, it seems like anarchy to me.  I suppose 'lack of faith' in itself doesn't quantify where we are with regards to our democracy but it feels like a race to the bottom to me.

[Argus]

 

Quote

It's a little surprising that people who are sick of politicians also don't vote, don't understand the relationship of the courts to the government, call for unilateral reactions to localized events, and so on.  Yes, it seems like anarchy to me.  I suppose 'lack of faith' in itself doesn't quantify where we are with regards to our democracy but it feels like a race to the bottom to me.

I vote in every election, for the least disreputable individual running. I understand the courts and government, and I don't believe this country, or, for that matter, the West, is heading in the right direction, nor have any faith or confidence in our political leadership. I don't think that makes me at all unique, given what that 'leadership' consists of. And I can't say I see anyone else in Europe or, of course, the US, who holds out any hope of better things ahead. Everywhere I look I see classical liberalism (not Liberalism) in decline, assailed by barbarians from the outside (Russia, China, NKorea, Turkey, ISISetc), and insipid, hand-wringing, spineless progressives on the inside.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Argus

[Omni]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

 

I vote in every election, for the least disreputable individual running. I understand the courts and government, and I don't believe this country, or, for that matter, the West, is heading in the right direction, nor have any faith or confidence in our political leadership. I don't think that makes me at all unique, given what that 'leadership' consists of. And I can't say I see anyone else in Europe or, of course, the US, who holds out any hope of better things ahead. Everywhere I look I see classical liberalism (not Liberalism) in decline, assailed by barbarians from the outside (Russia, China, NKorea, Turkey, ISISetc), and insipid, hand-wringing, spineless progressives on the inside.

You should try getting your name on a ballet then, get elected and go in there and fix the whole thing up to your standards.

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, Argus said:

 

I vote in every election, for the least disreputable individual running. I understand the courts and government, and I don't believe this country, or, for that matter, the West, is heading in the right direction, nor have any faith or confidence in our political leadership. I don't think that makes me at all unique, given what that 'leadership' consists of. And I can't say I see anyone else in Europe or, of course, the US, who holds out any hope of better things ahead. Everywhere I look I see classical liberalism (not Liberalism) in decline, assailed by barbarians from the outside (Russia, China, NKorea, Turkey, ISISetc), and insipid, hand-wringing, spineless progressives on the inside.

Sure, but you're not about whom I am talking about when I talk about "lacking faith" in institutions.  Not at all.  You may lack faith in, and distrust all politicians, but you don't fall prey to the Trumpist view, for example.   (I use him as an example of the the prototypical idealogical non-politician and destroyer of objectivity and consensus. ) 

You are a true conservative, in that you harken back to an age where institutions mattered.  You don't want to blow everything up because of the Zionist media or the 9/11 conspiracy.  Somewhere in there, you care.

In short, we will never agree and I don't respect your views much at all.  But I do generally respect your methods the conservative mindset, and I feel that without strong conservative voices like yours, Canada would tilt towards impractical and trendy policies.  

Carry on.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Michael Hardner
I crossed out 'methods' because it's not 100% true upon recollection.

[Hydraboss]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Canada would tilt towards impractical and trendy policies

Do you mean policies like that being implemented by the godling Trudeau?  THOSE impractical and trendy policies?  Even staunch conservatives like Argus can't offset the utter stupidity of the scads of people that are electing governments like this which are led by completely empty suits.

[Michael Hardner]

17 minutes ago, Hydraboss said:

1) Do you mean policies like that being implemented by the godling Trudeau?  THOSE impractical and trendy policies? 

2) Even staunch conservatives like Argus can't offset the utter stupidity of the scads of people that are electing governments like this which are led by completely empty suits.

1) Trudeau is donning a left-friendly cloak to allow him to bring in pipelines, trade deals, and possibly wars if necessary.  Remember the voting reform ?  If Conservatives also buy into this hype, then it doesn't matter.  I would need to be reminded of what policies he has enacted, because I haven't seen anything noteworthy.

2) He's said his piece about politicians.  They all use immigration (thread topic) as a political chapeau, but nobody makes substantive changes really.  That's one example.  I guess I'm not as cynical as him but almost.

[drummindiver]

On 19/07/2017 at 10:29 PM, Omni said:

Wow, that's frightening. These people are not only stupid and mean, they are not Canadian. Throw their sorry asses in a leaky dinghy and punt them offshore and let them drift.

Lol...yes, slow drowning death seems suitable.  Muslim much?

[Argus]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sure, but you're not about whom I am talking about when I talk about "lacking faith" in institutions.  Not at all.  You may lack faith in, and distrust all politicians, but you don't fall prey to the Trumpist view, for example.   (I use him as an example of the the prototypical idealogical non-politician and destroyer of objectivity and consensus. ) 

I have, what I believe, is a commonsense, realist view of things. I could support a Trump, but only if he had some intelligence and integrity (he doesn't), and the policies he called for made sense and would benefit the country and society (his don't).

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are a true conservative, in that you harken back to an age where institutions mattered.  You don't want to blow everything up because of the Zionist media or the 9/11 conspiracy.  Somewhere in there, you care.

No one who argues politics with any degree of passion doesn't 'care'. And as a realist I pay attention to the evidence and not absurd theories.

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

In short, we will never agree and I don't respect your views much at all.

Ditto. There is a place for progressives, but only under the jaundiced eye of conservatives to make sure they don't do too many bloody silly things too damned often. We built this country and we don't want you wrecking it.

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 But I do generally respect your methods the conservative mindset, and I feel that without strong conservative voices like yours, Canada would tilt towards impractical and trendy policies

And in my view it has, in many ways, done just that. And certainly with regard to the topic of this thread, with regard to Immigration, who gets to come to Canada and live here, and why and how many, it has.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

1) I have, what I believe, is a commonsense, realist view of things. I could support a Trump, but only if he had some intelligence and integrity (he doesn't), and the policies he called for made sense and would benefit the country and society (his don't).

2) And in my view it has, in many ways, done just that. And certainly with regard to the topic of this thread, with regard to Immigration, who gets to come to Canada and live here, and why and how many, it has.

1) Me too.  I had low hopes for Trump but he turned out to not have the temperament, character or intelligence to lead.  At all.

2) ?  Are you really saying Conservatism has influenced immigration policy for the better ?  I'm not disagreeing but I am curious as to how you think so.

[Argus]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Trudeau is donning a left-friendly cloak to allow him to bring in pipelines, trade deals, and possibly wars if necessary.  Remember the voting reform ?

If you don't think Trudeau is left wing given his life, everything he's said, and his upbringing, I'm not sure what you consider to be left wing. Do you actually think Trudeau is some sort of military supporting warmonger?

Yes, I remember voting reform. It was something his trendy left wing views embraced, but once in power his party pointed out to him that the Liberals would likely never again enjoy a majority under such a system.  Just like immigration, which is almost entirely designed to benefit the party in power, voting reform would almost entirely benefit the parties NOT in power. I haven't noticed any great desire to share power with others amongst Left wing governments here or elsewhere.

 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Argus said:

If you don't think Trudeau is left wing given his life, everything he's said, and his upbringing, I'm not sure what you consider to be left wing. Do you actually think Trudeau is some sort of military supporting warmonger?

Socially, he's average-left but he won't put himself behind anything truly leftist. It's all platitudes.