Paris might be problem for Trudeau

Scotty · November 17, 2015

Where does it say that the UN disqualifies terrorists as refugees? A terrorist in a refugee camp could conceivably tell UN screeners they have sworn off their murderous ways and "please, please I want to go to Europe or America".

There is also no distinction between those who might support ISIS but were not fighters of ISIS who fled the Syrian government's bombing, and supporters of the Syrian government who fled from ISIS. People seem to be assuming everyone who fled was an opponent of ISIS and that is not true.

Black Dog · November 17, 2015

The poll on Syrian refugees was, of course not taken prior to the war. It can be found here.

That's not the poll, that's a (biased) article about the poll, which distorts the actual polls findings. The actual poll of Arab populations asked respondents if they had a positive or negative view of ISIL. 9% had a "somewhat [positive" opinion while only 4% had a unambiguously positive view. Interestingly enough refugees from Syria had the most positive views of ISIL of any of the surveyed populations outside of Palestine. Now ask yourself: what could possibly be happening in Syria that could lead people fleeing the country to have a positive view of this group?

ReeferMadness · November 17, 2015

There was a post earlier indicating that the UN reps say it's easy to select 25,000 'safe' refugees because many have been in refugee camps for several years now, and have been well scrutinized.

Shhhh. Don't take away their excuses.

eyeball · November 17, 2015

Well yes pik, we all want it solved right now.

Take a break.

We're figuring it out.

It's never as simple as bomb someone is it?

Then you have refugees, and you have to figure that out.

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It's also not very complicated. Lest we forget...all the freaked out headless chickenhawks running around in circles over refugees and terrorist attacks were all warned all this would happen 10 years or more ago. They were also warned about the E.U.'s right-wing parties surging as a result of continuing on the path we're on.

Europe's migrant crisis has sent thousands of anxious citizens flocking to the far-right fringe

Source

It won't be long now before they start reopening the camps and we can look forward to bailing the poor stupid Europeans out again...but 3rd times a charm right?

Smoke · November 17, 2015

Derek, do you not understand grabbing your child and running from bombs raining down?

Do you understand fleeing from regimes that won't supply travel documents?

Refugees often are without documents for good reason.

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Are you against the Trudeau/Goodale Liberals stance on the documents then? Gee who would have figured the deep running Islamophobic sentiment among the Liberal party.

marcus · November 17, 2015

Why do they need to be permanent?

Why can't they be permanent? Are we out of space?

Why can't they return home once the fighting is over? You know, rebuild their country?

-k

Because, look at Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

When will the fighting be over? When will the rebuilding begin? Should we allow these children to live in these refugee camps until.... whenever? Why allow a life to be ruined when it can be avoided?

As a parent, I feel connected to the despair the father and mother who are trying to save their children from hell. I don't care that they're from a different country. Borders are artificial but humanity is not. So I am not opposed to our wealthy country spending money in helping and giving the opportunity to these people to have a better life in this beautiful vast land we call Canada.

marcus · November 17, 2015

I'm fine with this. If you don't like what someone says you have a right to speak out to counter that. Suppressing what someone says has a completely different philosophy behind it.

Our democracy is based on equality and human rights. Racism and hate should not be tolerated as a norm and as part of our democracy. There is nothing wrong with suppressing racism and hate by calling them out. Especially when it comes to our leaders, who represent our democracy.

Racism and hate should never become okay. Those who think it's okay, should be confronted.

Edited November 17, 2015 by marcus

WestCoastRunner · November 17, 2015

Because, look at Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

So I am not opposed to our wealthy country spending money in helping and giving the opportunity to these people to have a better life in this beautiful vast land we call Canada.

And the fact is, Syrian refugees didn't want to leave their country but they have nothing to go home to. Their towns are destroyed and it will take decades for their home country to be re-established. In the meantime children need to be educated and that won't happen in the camps.

eyeball · November 17, 2015

And the fact is, Syrian refugees didn't want to leave their country but they have nothing to go home to. Their towns are destroyed and it will take decades for their home country to be re-established. In the meantime children need to be educated and that won't happen in the camps.

They could if Trudeau would only start acting constructively. The reality is that these refugee camps are pretty much guaranteed to be permanent facts that will be on the ground for a couple of generations. We should start planning for that and make the protection and housing of refugees the focus of our military's efforts in the ME region.

And we need to stop shipping weapons to the region so when we start applying a sanctions against anyone who does we won't look like total dweebs.

WestCoastRunner · November 17, 2015

They could if Trudeau would only start acting constructively. The reality is that these refugee camps are pretty much guaranteed to be permanent facts that will be on the ground for a couple of generations. We should start planning for that and make the protection and housing of refugees the focus of our military's efforts in the ME region.

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And I agree. There was some billionaire that was willing to buy a Greek island and build homes, schools etc. not sure why it didn't gain traction.

bush_cheney2004 · November 17, 2015

Our democracy is based on equality and human rights....

No....history says otherwise, not only for landed immigrants and "aboriginals", but also for immigration and refugee policies over the past 100 years.

GostHacked · November 17, 2015

There is no damn way Canada can effectively screen 25,000 Syrians before the year's end. At this point that would mean about 600 per day need to be processed. That is assuming there are enough people and resources to make it happen in time.

WestCoastRunner · November 17, 2015

There is no damn way Canada can effectively screen 25,000 Syrians before the year's end. At this point that would mean about 600 per day need to be processed. That is assuming there are enough people and resources to make it happen in time.

Well I hope we make a very strong effort to let in as many as we can.

eyeball · November 17, 2015

And I agree. There was some billionaire that was willing to buy a Greek island and build homes, schools etc. not sure why it didn't gain traction.

Probably because the World Stage is a la la land where politicians, bureaucrats and diplomats are all stoned on LSD.

Seriously though I think they must exist in a foundational state of delusion and belief that things will just blow over and its all just a bunch of little crises that need to be managed. Two other things also tend to detract from any real attempt or even capacity to appreciate a bigger picture. 1. the ups and downs of political power and how that can hinge on the flare-points du jour, especially amongst democracies and 2. the media's way of reporting events in a event by event manner that results in the same failure to form a more fluid continuous view of what's happening.

As for the fickle up and down chaotic nature of political fortune - I said right from the beginning Harper was only ever a galvanizing event away from a victory. I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that we'd be looking at a drastically different result than we got if the Paris attacks had occurred in the final weeks of our recent election campaign.

WestCoastRunner · November 18, 2015

Probably because the World Stage is a la la land where politicians, bureaucrats and diplomats are all stoned on LSD.

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I don't have a lot of faith in our current world leaders and yet to be determined future world leaders. But we can't give up on putting pressure on them to 'come together and give peace a chance'.

Scotty · November 18, 2015

Our democracy is based on equality and human rights. Racism and hate should not be tolerated as a norm and as part of our democracy.

See, now you're backsliding again. You don't have a choice but to tolerate what people say. It's not up to you. And again, that's especially so given there is no agreed upon definition of either racism or 'hate', other than what's in the criminal code on hate speech.

There is nothing wrong with suppressing racism and hate by calling them out.

Calling it out is entirely different from suppressing it.

cannuck · November 18, 2015

I suggest that someone has taught your eldest daughter to misunderstand how a democracy works. An elected government speaks for the whole nation. Harper did so as is Trudeau now.

Using your daughters logic, only the children of those voting conservative should have been sent to Afghanistan and Ben Harper should be forced to join our armed forces and sent to Syria to assist the mission that his father began.

I assume that you have since guided her thinking into another direction.

I am OK with that. But, to think I could "guide" my children in their adult life would be a wildly wrong assumption. My theory is you have until the hormones start to rage to make your mark, and after that you really only get to spectate. Believe me, after 20-odd years in academia before striking out into the real world, neither of my children are exactly short on their own opinions.

marcus · November 18, 2015

See, now you're backsliding again. You don't have a choice but to tolerate what people say. It's not up to you. And again, that's especially so given there is no agreed upon definition of either racism or 'hate', other than what's in the criminal code on hate speech.

Calling it out is entirely different from suppressing it.

There is no 'backsliding'. I am all about freedom of speech. I am even against many of the speech laws that Canada has.

What I am talking about is that we should not allow racism and bigotry to be common place. Kind of like what is happening Down South, where GOP presidential candidates are talking about deporting Muslims or not allowing Muslims to run for office. Compare the language of the GOP and their racist supporters now to 15 years ago. It's much more acceptable to be an asshole racist than it was back then. Why? Because idiots continue to shout racist crap without being challenged.

Wasn't a Muslim mother beaten and told to go back to her country just the other day? The more hate that goes unchallenged, the more acceptable and widespread it becomes.

bush_cheney2004 · November 18, 2015

...What I am talking about is that we should not allow racism and bigotry to be common place. Kind of like what is happening Down South,

Lots of hatred and racism in Canada....deflecting "Down South" won't hide the torched mosque, assaults, "hate speech", and loss of citizenship in Canada.

On Guard for Thee · November 18, 2015

Lots of hatred and racism in Canada....deflecting "Down South" won't hide the torched mosque, assaults, "hate speech", and loss of citizenship in Canada.

We have changed governments recently. If you are going to continue to comment about all things Canada, at least try to keep up with current events, eh.

WestCoastRunner · November 18, 2015

Probably because the World Stage is a la la land where politicians, bureaucrats and diplomats are all stoned on LSD.

Looks like that billionaire is still moving forward with his idea of buying an island for the refugees:

"The billionaire seems more optimistic about moving forward with the plan to buy an island, according to a Nov. 18 email from Sawiris’ spokesperson. “But due to the delicacy of the issue he has not disclosed specific reasons for his optimism.”

"According to the spokesperson, he’s now studying the potential of 17 Greek islands to determine which can accommodate the highest number of refugees and has “highest potential for future use.”

"Sawiris is still awaiting Greek government approval to purchase an island, which he said he would name Aylan Island to honor the 3-year old Syrian boy whose drowned body was washed up in a Turkish beach."

Sounds like a bizarre plan but hey, it might work.

Wilber · November 18, 2015

Well I hope we make a very strong effort to let in as many as we can.

I hope so to but sensibly. This shouldn't be about JT trying to make himself look good by keeping a stupid promise to get them here by the end of the year.

GostHacked · November 18, 2015

Lots of hatred and racism in Canada....deflecting "Down South" won't hide the torched mosque, assaults, "hate speech", and loss of citizenship in Canada.

We learned it from you.