msj Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 - point being - they misuse a religion to justify violent beliefs and actions. If you actually read the Old Testament, New Testament and, especially, the Koran you would know that it is the moderately religious that are out of touch with their holy books. Which is exactly why their holy books, and entire religions, are nonsense. It is very easy to use any of the these holy texts to justify much of what ISIS does. Why anyone would submit their thoughts and actions to ideas from books written by ignorant tribes men thousands of years ago is beyond me. They mustn't know this is 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) And no one would conflate derision of the KKK or the WBC as being a Christianaphobic like people who speak out against Sharia Law and Fundamentalist Islam are often tagged as being. That's because the KKK are directly affronting and contradicting their scripture (NT bible), whereas ISIS is more or less completely consistent with theirs (Koran, hadiths). I cannot think of a group more in sync with the teachings and actions of the prophet Mohammed than ISIS. Fortunately more western Muslims do not follow his example today. If you actually read the Old Testament, New Testament and, especially, the Koran you would know that it is the moderately religious that are out of touch with their holy books. True for Muslims. How is this true for Christians? Maybe I don't know what you mean by 'moderately' religious vis a vis Christians. How is it easy to use the NT bible to endorse things like what ISIS does? I have read all those books and I cannot think of a way the NT (Christian part of the bible) could be used as such. There is a difference between people justifying violence or persecution on the basis of their religion, vs having an actual basis in their scriptures for those actions. Edited November 16, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 And no one would conflate derision of the KKK or the WBC as being a Christianaphobic like people who speak out against Sharia Law and Fundamentalist Islam are often tagged as being. I think you're overstating the extent to which those distinctions are made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 That's because the KKK are directly affronting and contradicting their scripture (NT bible), whereas ISIS is more or less completely consistent with theirs (Koran, hadiths). I cannot think of a group more in sync with the teachings and actions of the prophet Mohammed than ISIS. The quietest Salafis have all the same beliefs as ISIS, from Sharia law to the belief that a Caliphate will be established and that all people will ultimately be either Muslim or under Muslim rule as slaves I guess. However, they expect this event to happen in the future, with much more involvement by Allah; in the meantime, they are not to take part in political activity. ISIS, on the other hand, believes the time is now and so they have the right and duty to engage in war. Interestingly, part of the belief they hold is that Jesus will come as their 'second prophet', once they've beaten "Rome" at Dafiq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Canada will respond to Paris attacks with 'absolute resolution,' Stéphane Dion says I hope that "absolute resolution" is to resolve get the hell out of there and let them fight their civil war. And then what? Suppose ISIS wins and grows and becomes richer and more powerful and its ideology becomes even more popular among Muslims abroad? Then what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 At least one, as according to the passport he happened to be carrying. At least four others were French and Belgium nationals. Meaning that stopping refugees from coming in would not have made a difference. It would have made a difference if they'd stopped them a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Does anybody realize that we average about 250,000 immigrants a year, about 3,000 refugees land on our soil every year and disappear into the population or across the border. Good point. We should stop immigration and stop taking refugees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) The quietest Salafis have all the same beliefs as ISIS, from Sharia law to the belief that a Caliphate will be established and that all people will ultimately be either Muslim or under Muslim rule as slaves I guess. However, they expect this event to happen in the future, with much more involvement by Allah; in the meantime, they are not to take part in political activity. ISIS, on the other hand, believes the time is now and so they have the right and duty to engage in war. If they are quiet, then by definition they are not following the precedent and teachings of Mohammed as accurately as ISIS (even if they closely follow some portions). ISIS looks and acts like Mohammed and his posse did, with respect to area they control, how they behave, and their actions towards non-Muslims. Mohammed did not sit around and hope for divine intervention, he actively propagated hate and violence towards others (once he had political power) and encouraged his followers to do the same. And they did, both during his life and after. Edited November 16, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Fully agree. I also think we should ferociously suppress anti-Muslim, anti-refugee agitation. What are you proposing? Concentration camps for people who say bad things about muslims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 And does he know that a real passport is no guarantee that the person isn't also with ISIS? -k 13% of Syrian refugees surveyed support ISIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 That's because the KKK are directly affronting and contradicting their scripture (NT bible), whereas ISIS is more or less completely consistent with theirs (Koran, hadiths).So you and ISIS are pretty much on the same page when it comes to Islam. Now you both just have to convince the billion or so moderate followers how they are really extremists too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 True for Muslims. How is this true for Christians? Maybe I don't know what you mean by 'moderately' religious vis a vis Christians. How is it easy to use the NT bible to endorse things like what ISIS does? I have read all those books and I cannot think of a way the NT (Christian part of the bible) could be used as such. There is a difference between people justifying violence or persecution on the basis of their religion, vs having an actual basis in their scriptures for those actions. Recently, I listened to a rather long sermon by a Muslim cleric, quite a famous one judging by the size of the audience. Anyway, his sermon taught that there were three parts to the Koran: one was about things that happened in the past and no longer applied, one was about how to live one's life in the present, and the third was what Allah would provide for his people. ISIS (he didn't say their name, it was by implication) were taking the parts of the Koran that referred to the past and using that to justify their present actions. So, at least in this sermon, ISIS would be similar to a bunch of Christians who took the old testament as justification for burning witches, stoning adulterous women, keeping slaves, implementing 'eye-for-an-eye' penalties for wrongdoing, and chasing their enemies to kill them from behind. Even the New Testament has passages suggesting that its ok to kill non-believers (Luke 19:27; Matthew 10:34). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeelious Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 True for Muslims. How is this true for Christians? Maybe I don't know what you mean by 'moderately' religious vis a vis Christians. How is it easy to use the NT bible to endorse things like what ISIS does? I have read all those books and I cannot think of a way the NT (Christian part of the bible) could be used as such. There is a difference between people justifying violence or persecution on the basis of their religion, vs having an actual basis in their scriptures for those actions. That last line is actually a very good point. I'm not sure that it would bear scrutiny however. (research time!) Especially given the Old Testament, which honestly you can't just disregard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) We will support the French people by stopping attacks against ISIS? Trudeau, like many liberals, feels a disdain for the idea of force. He believes that we can talk everything out and compromise. Unfortunately, that kind of thing only works with civilized people. As Mark Steyn says, these are barbarians and savages. Trudeau promises solidarity with the French but then takes a step back as France and its allies move to confront these barbarians. Trudeau says we will take part, in some way he can't explain. Perhaps we will open a food stand way in the back so the allies who do the actual fighting can come back to have a beer or a coffee during breaks. Maybe Canadian soldiers will put on skirts, pick up some pom poms and be the cheerleaders on the sides while the men fight it out. Edited November 16, 2015 by Scotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 People now are going to realize what a mistake they did in voting trudeau. This guy has been on a pedestal his whole life, and constantly told how pretty he is and how smart and that can go to your head. He has no idea of what real people have to deal with and his rosy ideas will not cut it in the real world. I bet other leaders in Paris are just shaking their heads in disbelief, that canada would do that. Harper understood the reality of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Ok, but ISIS has been quite clear, months ago, that they have placed members among refugees and here we are......It was clear 15 years ago that something like ISIS would emerge from the chaos we were causing in the ME region and here we are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 If they are quiet, then by definition they are not following the precedent and teachings of Mohammed as accurately as ISIS (even if they closely follow some portions). ISIS looks and acts like Mohammed and his posse did, with respect to area they control, how they behave, and their actions towards non-Muslims. Mohammed did not sit around and hope for divine intervention, he actively propagated hate and violence towards others (once he had political power) and encouraged his followers to do the same. And they did, both during his life and after. Not saying Mohammed didn't wage war, but just like ISIS of today, you are forgetting or ignoring that he also taught other things. The Muslims who follow his teaching regarding peaceful behavior are no less following his teachings than are ISIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 13% of Syrian refugees surveyed support ISIS. Were they surveyed in Syria, in the refugee camps or after they'd gotten to a Western country? In both Syria and refugee camps, given that any hint of non-support could result in death, I'd wonder how many of those 13% decided lying was preferable to death. Context is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeelious Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Were they surveyed in Syria, in the refugee camps or after they'd gotten to a Western country? In both Syria and refugee camps, given that any hint of non-support could result in death, I'd wonder how many of those 13% decided lying was preferable to death. Context is important. So is the source... btw 100% of people I surveyed think that 13% number is bogus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) What are you proposing? Concentration camps for people who say bad things about muslims? I am talking about speaking out against racists and bigots so that it doesn't become acceptable. Something the former government did the opposite of. Muslims had already been feeling Islamophobia and I'm certain it will increase - How will our governments and Canadians respond to things like this: Arson hits Peterborough’s only mosque Edited November 16, 2015 by marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I am talking about speaking out against racists and bigots so that it doesn't become acceptable. Something the former government did the opposite of.If we do not then racism and bigotry will become an acceptable argument. Racists only have to feel as if their views are considered as mainstream before they go the next step - action. Fortunately we are not there yet. What - you say we are already? http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/15/arson-hits-peterboroughs-only-mosque.html Pity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 How is speaking out against ISIS and/or Sharia Law Islamaphobia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 No more immigration from muslim countries will fix it. That is the only way to get the so called moderate off their ass and start doing something about the evil that has taken over their so peaceful religion. I am tired of the political correctness, white mans guilt and the cowards in this country. It is time to fix this problem once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) How is speaking out against ISIS and/or Sharia Law Islamaphobia? I don't think it is, unless the 'speaking out' goes something like this: "All Muslims believe in Sharia law and are just waiting to impose it on everyone" "All Muslims support ISIS, even if they don't say so out loud" "Muslims do not want peace, they want to kill or enslave any non-Muslim, or even any Muslim who disagrees with them" "If Muslims are allowed to come here, we'll all be under Sharia Law" "If we allow women to wear naqibs, we'll all be under Sharia Law" Those are the kinds of comments that indicate Isamaphobia, and incite people to fear and hate anyone who might be Muslin, or who might be friends with Muslims, or who might just hold a more moderate view of Muslims and Islam. I've been accused of 'supporting/condoning Sharia law in Canada" merely for saying that we can't paint all Muslims with the ISIS brush. That's ridiculous and demonstrates the accuser has lost the power of reason to their own fear. Not supporting Sharia or ISIS doesn't mean one has to fear and hate all Muslims and/or all people of Arabic descent, or even all people from the Middle East (except Isrealis). Edited November 16, 2015 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) No more immigration from muslim countries will fix it. That is the only way to get the so called moderate off their ass and start doing something about the evil that has taken over their so peaceful religion. I am tired of the political correctness, white mans guilt and the cowards in this country. It is time to fix this problem once and for all. The real problem is all the western moderates. What you need is a hard-boiled right-wing cultural revolution to get rid of all the lefties. Then you need to revamp our education system so it's more like a Klingon military prep school where you can nip the natural affinity Canadians have towards kittens and unicorns in the bud and start building a society with a backbone and the pagan ethos it takes to win. The 'Things I Learned in Kindergarten' needs to take on a more serious darker tone. To bad rainbows don't fade from violet through to black. Edited November 16, 2015 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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