Paris might be problem for Trudeau

[WestCanMan]

***snip***

But focusing on the refugees as if they are by definition a greater threat than people living within Canada or utilizing any of a number of ways to come to Canada either permanently or temporarily is a mistake. In all the reports of terror attacks I'm aware of, there have been citizens of the attacked country heavily involved. In my opinion, refugees are the least of our problems; radicalization within our borders is a lot bigger problem.

So what you are saying is that mathematically there is likely to be the same number of terrorists in a group of 200 canadians gathered at Joey and Tina's wedding reception as there are in the same number of Syrian refugees?

Why is it that you and I seem to disagree on everything? It's so crazy.

[Bryan]

Fair enough, but I would question how legitimate the refugee is if they are attempting to enter a country under a false pretense with a fake passport.

By definition, if they are using false credentials, their claim is not legitimate.

[Keepitsimple]

I think the 'sympathizers' and abettors more likely to be already in-country developed from within a country's citizens.

Apparently, that seems to cause you no concern - with your belief that Syrian refugees are "no bigger threat than any other incoming demographic".

[WestCanMan]

At this point, I don't think you should dance to the tune of ISIS by assuming that Syrian refugees are a larger threat than any other incoming demographic.

What percentage of Syrians are members of ISIS? What about Denmark, or Japan? Same %? Wow, I never would have thought of that.

[marcus]

Maybe instead of bringing the Syrians to live in Canada, we should devote our resources to providing safe and livable conditions at the refugee camps in the area.

-k

Because those camps cannot sustain people permanently. Also, the countries where these camps are set-up are unable to take any more refugees permanently. Countries like Turkey, Lebanon and Iran already have hundreds of thousands of Syrian, Iraqi and Afghani refugees that are already being taken in.

25,000 people is a drop in a bucket, especially for a wealthy country such as ours, where we have lots of land and space. We were able to take over 50,000 vietnamese refugees in the late 70's without any issues. We will be able to take in and help these people as well.

[marcus]

But in Canada's case, our own Government is mandating a policy that will see the entire process rushed for no logical reason other than to keep an election promise.

You keep repeating that, but it's not really true. The refugees have already been through one round of security and background check and they will receive another in Canada. And the background/security will be longer than the 2.5 minutes you erroneously suggested earlier, in another thread.

[Derek 2.0]

By definition, if they are using false credentials, their claim is not legitimate.

Exactly.

[Derek 2.0]

You keep repeating that, but it's not really true. The refugees have already been through one round of security and background check and they will receive another in Canada. And the background/security will be longer than the 2.5 minutes you erroneously suggested earlier, in another thread.

One round of security and background check? Thats great, except that one of the Paris attackers also went through the same "checks"......

[dialamah]

Apparently, that seems to cause you no concern - with your belief that Syrian refugees are "no bigger threat than any other incoming demographic".

I didn't say I wasn't concerned, only that I would expect sympathizers to be already in-country. If anything, I'm more concerned about in-country sympathizes and radicalization than about these refugees being a hotbed of terrorism.

[Smallc]

One round of security and background check? Thats great, except that one of the Paris attackers also went through the same "checks"......

The latest information is pointing to that not being a reality, actually.

[Derek 2.0]

The latest information is pointing to that not being a reality, actually.

What information?

[Smallc]

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/syrian-passports-found-scene-paris-attacks-fakes-made-turkey-police-520642631

This is running on several news sites now.

[dialamah]

What percentage of Syrians are members of ISIS? What about Denmark, or Japan? Same %? Wow, I never would have thought of that.

How many born-and-bred Canadians have gone to fight in Syria, for ISIS? How many from Europe? From the US? People from around the world in the thousands travel to support ISIS. Why is that, do you suppose?

Right now, ISIS seems intent on having people come to join them, but shouldn't be too difficult to simply leave these people in their country of origin, or have them return, and carry out mayhem. Perhaps that is what has happened in Paris. So yeah, in-country extremism worries me more than Syrian refugees.

From a 2014 Frontline report:

Although precise figures are hard to verify, the number of Westerners now fighting alongside militants in Iraq and Syria has by all accounts surged. [/size]A June report by the New York-based intelligence organization The Soufan Group describes a region transformed into an “incubator for a new generation of terrorists,” with more than 12,000 foreign fighters from at least 81 countries stationed in Syria alone. Of that number, [/size]approximately 2,500 are from Western nations, including the United States, Australia, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany and Great Britain.[/size]

And a year later, the numbers are rising ....

Nearly 30,000 foreign recruits have now poured intoSyria, many to join the Islamic State, a doubling of volunteers in just the past 12 months and stark evidence that an international effort to tighten borders, share intelligence and enforce antiterrorism laws is not diminishing the ranks of new militant fighters.

Among those who have entered or tried to enter the conflict in Iraq or Syria are more than 250 Americans, up from about 100 a year ago, according to intelligence and law enforcement officials.

[dialamah]

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/syrian-passports-found-scene-paris-attacks-fakes-made-turkey-police-520642631

This is running on several news sites now.

So not surprised, should have laid a bet. And I note the story suggests what I said above - ISIS is now returning some of their Western recruits to their country of origin to engage in terrorism.

[marcus]

One round of security and background check? Thats great, except that one of the Paris attackers also went through the same "checks"......

Two comments about that:

#1 - A passport was found, and it has not been confirmed if it was one of the attackers. I am wondering why they would carry a passport with them on a mission that has been planned for months.

#2 - Majority of the confirmed terrorists are French and Belgium nationals. If a terrorist attack is going to happen, it will happen with or without extremists coming to a country through the refugee system. There is a good chance that they will be citizens of the country.

Edit: See previous post regarding the passport which ended up being fake:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/syrian-passports-found-scene-paris-attacks-fakes-made-turkey-police-520642631

This is running on several news sites now.

Edited November 16, 2015 by marcus

[Bryan]

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/syrian-passports-found-scene-paris-attacks-fakes-made-turkey-police-520642631

This is running on several news sites now.

Yes, it's already been well established that many Syrian refugees are using fake passports.

[poochy]

Yes, it's already been well established that many Syrian refugees are using fake passports.

There is literally no chance that any Syrian refugee could be dangerous, or a fake, and besides, it's worth the risk.

Edited November 16, 2015 by poochy

[Smallc]

There is literally no chance that any Syrian refugee could be dangerous, or a fake, and besides, it's worth the risk.

Luckily for us, they can't walk here. They need a ride, and that allows us to be selective.

[SpankyMcFarland]

British prime minister, Harold Macmillan, was once asked what was the most difficult thing about his job.

‘Events, dear boy, events’ was his reply. (Guardian article)

I think Harold Wilson is supposed to have said that 'a week is a long time in politics'.

Sunni ways, my friends.

Edited November 16, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

[Black Dog]

Fair enough, but I would question how legitimate the refugee is if they are attempting to enter a country under a false pretense with a fake passport.

Yeah because whether or not one is actually a refugee depends on having one's papers in order.

[jacee]

Syrian passports found at Paris attacks scene were fakes made in Turkey

EU commission chief says EU does not need to review migration policy in light of fears that militants posing as refugees launched attacks

- See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/syrian-passports-found-scene-paris-attacks-fakes-made-turkey-police-520642631#.dpuf

Thanks for that smallc.

I hope that this time smarter heads will prevail. Knee jerk violent and repressive responses are what Isis hopes to provoke. It would be great if leaders don't get sucked into Isis trap, as they have so many times in the past. But of course, if it's all a ruse for access to Syria's resources ... the leaders are in on the game.

Whatever sociopathic games are being played on innocent people, Muslims and nonMuslims,it's always good to remember:

"ISIS is to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity"

Edited November 16, 2015 by jacee

[Boges]

"ISIS is to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity"

As repugnant as the KKK are, are they going into big cities and killing civilians? or killing civilians and prisoners on film? or taking control of sovereign land OR!!! helping create a huge refugee crisis.

This kind of moral equivalency is useless at best and dangerous at worst.

[Black Dog]

As repugnant as the KKK are, are they going into big cities and killing civilians? or killing civilians and prisoners on film? or taking control of sovereign land OR!!! helping create a huge refugee crisis.

This kind of moral equivalency is useless at best and dangerous at worst.

Leaving aside the fact that the Klan was at one time a very active and very dangerous terrorist organization that murdered and terrorized black Americans with impunity for decades, the point stands.

[jacee]

As repugnant as the KKK are, are they going into big cities and killing civilians? or killing civilians and prisoners on film? or taking control of sovereign land OR!!! helping create a huge refugee crisis.

This kind of moral equivalency is useless at best and dangerous at worst.

The KKK had their heyday it's true, and their influence has waned but they still engage in terrorism, and

- point being -

they misuse a religion to justify violent beliefs and actions.

[Boges]

The KKK had their heyday it's true, and their influence has waned but they still engage in terrorism, and

- point being -

they misuse a religion to justify violent beliefs and actions.

And no one would conflate derision of the KKK or the WBC as being a Christianaphobic like people who speak out against Sharia Law and Fundamentalist Islam are often tagged as being.