Two Police Shot Dead in NY

[guyser]

Anyway this cop killer was obviously mentally ill: if it wan't this thing that set him off it would have been something else.

Some people just wait for an excuse to fill an already planned agenda.

The killer found his excuse.

The Police Unions all across the country have found theirs.

Frankly, and sadly, the treatment we get from the Cops will worsen. They have this under seige mentality .

Edited December 22, 2014 by Guyser2

[GostHacked]

Maybe we should get lawyers and accountants out looting. We all know how many Jewish attacks there were as a result of anger at the Holocaust.

Lawyers and accountants loot in a very different way.

[Wilber]

Frankly, and sadly, the treatment we get from the Cops will worsen. They have this under seige mentality .

Oh the horror. This was in an email sent to me. I can't verify its origin but it does speak to the real capability of the police to harass. In fact, 1 patrol cop on duty for every 5000 citizens is quite a low ratio. Many communities do with fewer, including mine and quite possibly yours..

> >> Police Harassment, Chula Vista, California style -

> >>>

> >>> Recently, the Chula Vista, California Police Department ran an

> e-mail forum with the local community (a question and answer exchange)

> with the topic being, "Community Policing." One of the civilian e-mail

> participants posed the following question:

> >>>

> >>> "I would like to know how it is possible for police officers to

> continually harass people and get away with it?"

> >>>

> >>> From the "other side" (the law enforcement side) Sgt. Bennett,

> obviously a cop with a sense of humor replied:

> >>>

> >>> "First of all, let me tell you this...it's not easy. In Chula

> Vista, we average one cop for every 600 people.

> >>>

> >>> Only about 60% of those cops are on general duty (or what you might

> refer to as "patrol") where we do most of our harassing. The rest are

> in non-harassing departments that do not allow them contact with the day

> to day innocents.

> >>>

> >>> At any given moment, only one-fifth of the 60% patrollers are on

> duty and available for harassing people while the rest are off duty.

> >>>

> >>> So roughly, one cop is responsible for harassing about 5,000 residents.

> >>>

> >>> When you toss in the commercial business, and tourist locations

> that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation

> where a single cop is responsible for harassing 10,000 or more people a day.

> >>>

> >>> Now, your average ten-hour shift runs 36,000 seconds long. This

> gives a cop one second to harass a person, and then only three-fourths

> of a second to eat a donut AND then find a new person to harass.

> >>>

> >>> This is not an easy task. To be honest, most cops are not up to

> this challenge day in and day out. It is just too tiring.

> >>>

> >>> What we do is utilize some tools to help us narrow down those

> people which we can realistically harass.

> >>>

> >>> The tools available to us are as follow:

> >>>

> >>> PHONE: People will call us up and point out things that cause us

> to focus on a person for special harassment.

> >>>

> >>> "My neighbor is beating his wife" is a code phrase used often. This

> means we'll come out and give somebody some special harassment.

> >>>

> >>> Another popular one: "There's a guy breaking into a house." The

> harassment team is then put into action.

> >>>

> >>> CARS: We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive.

> They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars with no insurance or

> no driver's licenses and the like.

> >>>

> >>> It's lots of fun when you pick them out of traffic for nothing more

> obvious than running a red light.

> >>>

> >>> Sometimes you get to really heap the harassment on when you find

> they have drugs in the car, they are drunk, or have an outstanding

> warrant on file.

> >>>

> >>> RUNNERS: Some people take off running just at the sight of a

> police officer. Nothing is quite as satisfying as running after them

> like a beagle on the scent of a bunny. When you catch them you can

> harass them for hours to determine why they didn't want to talk to us.

> >>>

> >>> STATUTES: When we don't have PHONES or CARS and have nothing

> better to do, there are actually books that give us ideas for reasons to

> harass folks. They are called "Statutes"; Criminal Codes, Motor Vehicle

> Codes, etc...They all spell out all sorts of things for which you can

> really mess with people.

> >>>

> >>> After you read the statute, you can just drive around for a while

> until you find someone violating one of these listed offenses and harass

> them.

> >>>

> >>> Just last week I saw a guy trying to steal a car. Well, there's

> this book we have that says that's not allowed. That meant I got

> permission to harass this guy. It's a really cool system that we've set

> up, and it works pretty well.

> >>>

> >>> We seem to have a never-ending supply of folks to harass. And we

> get away with it. Why? Because for the good citizens who pay the tab, we

> try to keep the streets safe for them, and they

> >>> pay us to "harass" some people.

> >>>

> >>> Next time you are in my town, give me the old "single finger wave."

> That's another one of those codes. It means, "You can't harass me." It's

> one of our favorites.

> >>>

> >>> Hopefully sir, this has clarified to you a little bit better how we

> harass the good citizens of Chula Vista.

[Moonlight Graham]

It's interesting that when a white cop shoots a black person. The cop is automatically guilty and had some racist agenda. However when you turn that around and a black shoots a white cop it isn't hatred but instead some form of mental illness or some other excuse.

Same as Muslim terrorists. That's never about hate either according to the left but is about mental illness. So many Muslims and blacks have mental illness. Sounds like what you people are contending.

Ridiculous statement. Never heard anyone say bin Laden had mental illness.

[poochy]

Completely false.

That's not rhetoric: that's reality.

Anyway this cop killer was obviously mentally ill: if it wan't this thing that set him off it would have been something else.

Except of course those who made those statements either changed them later or were found to be completely unreliable. Not that it matters right?

[Black Dog]

Except of course those who made those statements either changed them later or were found to be completely unreliable. Not that it matters right?

ORLY? All of them? Most of them? Some of them? Which ones, specifically?

[scribblet]

Except of course those who made those statements either changed them later or were found to be completely unreliable. Not that it matters right?

Some lied, some changed their story, it's clear that the protests are based on a lie. They have a right to peacefully protest for what they see as social injustice but at some point they have to sit down and evaluate themselves and what they are promoting above social justice. They really need to dial back the rhetoric as it appears to be leading towards anarchy.

I thought this was reasonable.

http://www.dailybulletin.com/opinion/20141222/now-can-we-cool-the-rhetoric-over-police-ferguson-garner-editorial

The protest of civilians’ deaths at the hands of police went farther over the line than any civilized person could have imagined over the weekend when a revenge-minded thug shot to death two New York officers sitting defenseless in their patrol car.

It’s a sad milestone in the weeks of debate following the decisions by grand juries in Missouri and New York to indict officers in the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner.

The only hope is that it will mark the moment when those on both sides of the issue finally see what they should have seen before, that they need to calm down.

Peaceful protests about specific police actions and judicial-system decisions are in bounds. Much of what has gone on in the name of demonstration, the violence and looting, is not. The propagation of the lie that the police are generally racist and violent is not.

Edited December 23, 2014 by scribblet

[Black Dog]

Some lied, some changed their story, it's clear that the protests are based on a lie.

Or, you know, lived experiences.

They have a right to peacefully protest for what they see as social injustice but at some point they have to sit down and evaluate themselves and what they are promoting above social justice. They really need to dial back the rhetoric as it appears to be leading towards anarchy.

*sips brandy* Hmm yes Buffy, COMPLETELY agree. These people don't understand how ridiculous this looks. After all when has violence or civil disobedience ever changed anything for the oppressed? And would it kill them to pull up their trousers, my GOODNESS. *tips valet*

[ironstone]

Completely false.

That's not rhetoric: that's reality.

Anyway this cop killer was obviously mentally ill: if it wan't this thing that set him off it would have been something else.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/11/28/the-physical-evidence-in-the-michael-brown-case-supported-the-officer/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michael-brown-shooting-forensic-evidence-supports-officers-version-of-events-that-sparked-ferguson-riots-9812632.html

I think the actual physical evidence speaks for itself in this case.

[Black Dog]

NYPD: work to rule?

On the day two NYPD officers were fatally shot, a widely circulated memo purporting to be from the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association told officers that "Absolutely NO enforcement action in the form of arrests and or summonses is to be taken unless absolutely necessary." The group denied that it issued the memo, though its president, Pat Lynch, used language similar to what was in the document when he said there's "blood on the hands" of Mayor de Blasio. Regardless of who wrote the memo, it appears officers took the message to heart. The New York Post reports that NYPD officers are engaged in a "virtual work stoppage," citing statistics that show arrests in the city are down 66 percent for the week starting December 22, compared to the same period last year.

[GostHacked]

Since those cops were ambushed, there would have been no way to make an arrest. That's kind of the point behind an ambush attempt. Now all cops are gonna be on edge because of it.

[guyser]

NYPD , normally only a handful are bad, but as they are showing the world the force is full of idiots.

"Cops, shooting themselves in the foot every day" , should be their new slogan.

[Black Dog]

NYPD , normally only a handful are bad, but as they are showing the world the force is full of idiots.

"Cops, shooting themselves in the foot every day" , should be their new slogan.

The funniest part of this for me is, if the cops don't enforce the law beyond the bare minimum and actual serious crime doesn't go up, it raises serious questions about the role of the police in society. IOW, they might be making a case for their own redundancy.

[guyser]

The funniest part of this for me is, if the cops don't enforce the law beyond the bare minimum and actual serious crime doesn't go up, it raises serious questions about the role of the police in society. IOW, they might be making a case for their own redundancy.

They may very well do that, I would not be surprised.

The thing for me is that this will only get worse, Cops are notorious when their back is against the wall. They are going to be meaner and more prickish in the short term. Hopefully when they see what harm they bring themselves they may back down.....may.

Lovely to see the report of the OPP SGt who broke a womans leg , a woman who was assiting another woman being sexually assaulted. The Judge wrote a scathing report and basically said the cop lied, was obfuscating his whole story, told something diff than where in his notes and so on.

I will never understand why the SIU is not allowed to see the Cops notes if said Cop says no.

A train engineer has to provide his 'notes'...he pees in a cup and the transcript of the train is taken for analysis.

A bus driver does the same.

A Cop shoots someone and..........he goes home safe and sound in a few hours.

Pathetic.

[Smallc]

A policemans notebook is for his own defence. As for having rouble with police - I've had a lot of dealings with them, but never really much in the way of trouble.

[guyser]

A policemans notebook is for his own defence.

Hmmm...no one is denying the notes for his defence, by having the SIU copy or hold them (temporarily) he cannot destroy any evidence.

But lets play a little game then....you get busted and your notes (cell) gets confiscated as it may provide evidence.NOw to get into the phone they will need a warrant.

So....lets get his (Cops) notes, seal them and lets get a warrant to unseal them. He can still use them for his defence but they are now logged as evidence.

As for having trouble with police - I've had a lot of dealings with them, but never really much in the way of trouble.

I have had very few dealings with them , some good some bad. Never even been close to being arrested, nor handcuffed. Most were passable some were downright nasty pricks, mainly for traffic stuff.

In social circles I have no issue with them, all seem fairly decent unless in a pack, or drunk. Then I move a far way away.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Guyser2

[Argus]

A policemans notebook is for his own defence. As for having rouble with police - I've had a lot of dealings with them, but never really much in the way of trouble.

His notebook is for evidence to be used in the prosecution of those he arrests. It's not his personal diary, but a task with official procedures. He is required to have that notebook and required to take notes. How to take proper notes is even a part of their training. As such, it should be public property. Police should neither be permitted to withhold them nor to withhold testimony to SIU. I would arrest any police officer who kills someone and then refuse to talk to the SIU and charge them with homicide. If they don't want to explain why they killed someone to the SIU let them explain it to a jury.

[cybercoma]

They don't have to explain to a jury. No one can be forced to testify against themselves. That is a right that everyone has.

[Shady]

I see that if a public sector union doesn't toe the leftist line, they quickly lose support from said leftists.

[Smallc]

His notebook is for evidence to be used in the prosecution of those he arrests. It's not his personal diary, but a task with official procedures. He is required to have that notebook and required to take notes. How to take proper notes is even a part of their training. As such, it should be public property. Police should neither be permitted to withhold them nor to withhold testimony to SIU.

In any profession where you are required to investigate (I used to be in one) or any where you have to be accountable, you are taught to never let your notes go because they are your defence. They will not give them up, and for a reason.

[eyeball]

They should still be required to hand over a copy of those notes. When I was involved with investigating I was constantly reminded that a picture or video is worth a thousand words.

When I'm being held accountable to the authorities and public I'm required to hand over two copies of all my notes along with several hours of video to verify the paper record.

I have no choice in the matter and I figure I'm probably decades ahead of police, and centuries ahead of the politicians on the accountability front.

[On Guard for Thee]

I get held to account if I smash into the side of a mountain. You can have my notes if you can find them. Oh yeah transport Canada has them. I wonder how the notes pertaining to ferguson read. I'm sure there are those everlasting rednecks who will try to enlighten us with their rubbrrstamped nonsense.

[Smallc]

I get held to account if I smash into the side of a mountain. You can have my notes if you can find them. Oh yeah transport Canada has them.

Not the same thing at all.

[On Guard for Thee]

UR right of course. One is a mistake, the other is intentional. You can decide which is which.

[Argus]

They don't have to explain to a jury. No one can be forced to testify against themselves. That is a right that everyone has.

I think you're misunderstanding the point. Killing someone is a homicide by definition, under all circumstances. Homicide is punishable by a long period of incarceration. The only way to avoid it, assuming you can't deny you did the killing, is to try to justify why you killed that person. That's no different for a cop than anyone else. If your answer to why you killed that man is "I refuse to answer" you go to prison. End of story. Buh bye.