War Against ISIL

[bush_cheney2004]

....The only real accomplishment in the success against ISIS has been the Iranian ground troops backed by Iranian armaments.

Patently false.....Kurds backed up with coalition air power have also been successful against ISIS.

[GostHacked]

The same Kurds the Turks are bombing?

[Bonam]

More atrocities by ISIS, destroying the collective history of humankind and turning to dust the achievements and struggles of those who lived thousands of years ago:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/05/world/iraq-isis-destroys-ancient-city-nimrud/index.html

As horrific as their murder sprees and attempts at genocide are, this kind of stuff offends me just as much, if not more. The ancient sites ISIS is destroying are irreplaceable.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

More atrocities by ISIS, destroying the collective history of humankind and turning to dust the achievements and struggles of those who lived thousands of years ago:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/05/world/iraq-isis-destroys-ancient-city-nimrud/index.html

As horrific as their murder sprees and attempts at genocide are, this kind of stuff offends me just as much, if not more. The ancient sites ISIS is destroying are irreplaceable.

Same with the Taliban taking down the statues in Afghanistan. Someone wants to erase some history.

[sharkman]

More atrocities by ISIS, destroying the collective history of humankind and turning to dust the achievements and struggles of those who lived thousands of years ago:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/05/world/iraq-isis-destroys-ancient-city-nimrud/index.html

As horrific as their murder sprees and attempts at genocide are, this kind of stuff offends me just as much, if not more. The ancient sites ISIS is destroying are irreplaceable.

The thing is, the West could wipe them out in a month. If they actually conducted a war as this laughable thread title suggests, it would be over fast. But Obama doesn't want that. He wants something else entirely.

[Derek 2.0]

Might as well produce energy that doesn't kill us and cost society a bundle in 'externalities'.

I'm sure that it will once Green Energy can compete on a larger scale with fossil fuels.....

[Michael Hardner]

I think we are dumb because we are in a civil war - again. We did not learn in Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya (by the way Libya is now a failed state with tens of thousands of deaths since our benevolent bombing).

Those were three different countries with different approaches at different times. Let's go back to principles: do you think military intervention is 100% wrong, even to protect innocent people from evil ?

It's difficult enough to separate the political complexities of the region from the political prism that we're using to examine it. We can do better here than to act like we're on CNN Crossfire.

Given the situation, I highly doubt that anybody on here has hard answers to the questions. So why not just ask questions and explore ?

You are asking some good ones, but yet you also conclude that we're being purposefully lied to. I think such thinking, in the face of complexities like this, leads us to very basic arguments.

[Black Dog]

The thing is, the West could wipe them out in a month. If they actually conducted a war as this laughable thread title suggests, it would be over fast. But Obama doesn't want that. He wants something else entirely.

What does he want exactly?

Do you think the American people have the stomach for another war in some far off land for little benefit? They don't care.

[Mighty AC]

I'm sure that it will once Green Energy can compete on a larger scale with fossil fuels.....

Renewables already can when all costs are considered. Imagine the military cost savings alone. Then add the healthcare savings and benefit to the environment and shared resources. Climate change is already far more deadly and expensive than terrorism. Saving lives and money, not too shabby.

[Big Guy]

To Michael - I believe that when Canadian interests are involved then we should get involved. The trigger for that involvement should be the application of Powell Doctrine but as related to Canada.

Innocence and evil are very subjective terms. Innocent of what? Evil implies profound immorality and malevolence. When did we decide that it was Canada's role to fight immorality and malevolence around the world.

When you are not told the truth then you are being lied to. The Canadian public was lied to as to the reasons, activities and participation in Afghanistan and Libya.

A few years ago, there was stability in the Middle East. Yes, there were dictatorships and monarchies and many instances where the West did not agree with how any particular country was being governed. But who cares what we think as regards to how other people are being governed.

Our involvement in the Middle East has resulted in hundreds of thousands of Arab deaths. Afghanistan is well on its way to being taken over by the local Taliban - again. Iraq is a weakened and struggling American puppet. Syria is in a weakened position, now involved in a civil war. Libya is a failed state. Yemen is a failed state. Iran is the only real power remaining in the area. We have weakened all the other countries who were enemies of Israel. Meanwhile, Israel has stayed out of these wars, kept its hands clean of those conflicts and continues to expand against the expressed wishes and direction of the USA, Canada and the UN - those who have been fighting their wars.

And now Israel wants us to go to war with Iran. That would give Israel free reign for expansion at will.

I say good for Israel. She sits back and lets us pay with our blood and treasure. That is the smart thing to do and I congratulate her.

For Canada, use me once - your fault. Use me twice - my fault.

If that is not being dumb then I do not know what is.

Oh BTW - It has been announced that we will probably be staying in for at least another 6 months.

Use me three times - .......

Edited March 6, 2015 by Big Guy

[bush_cheney2004]

The "Powell Doctrine" has nothing to do with Canada, which lacks the resources and influence to execute "Powell Doctrine" concepts. Just ask General Dallaire and Rwanda.....

Edited March 6, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[sharkman]

Good lord. Israel does not want 'us' to go to war with Iran. Israel wants to bomb Iran's nuke sites, and has been stopped by Obama. Big Guy, you really need to bone up on a situation before posting wildly inaccurate info.

[GostHacked]

Those were three different countries with different approaches at different times. Let's go back to principles: do you think military intervention is 100% wrong, even to protect innocent people from evil ?

You are asking some good ones, but yet you also conclude that we're being purposefully lied to. I think such thinking, in the face of complexities like this, leads us to very basic arguments.

You have been lied to. Where are Hussein's WMDs? And why is ISIS running around with Hum Vees and other USA military kit?

[GostHacked]

Good lord. Israel does not want 'us' to go to war with Iran. Israel wants to bomb Iran's nuke sites, and has been stopped by Obama. Big Guy, you really need to bone up on a situation before posting wildly inaccurate info.

Israel wants to go to war with Iran.

[Big Guy]

To sharkman - If there is no negotiated agreement with Iran as to their nuclear capabilities then the only other alternative is a military conflict. That conflict would have to involve the USA and probably "me too" Canada. That is the West going to war against Iran to protect Israel.

A nuclear Iran is no threat to the USA or Canada. North Korea, China and Russia already have the bomb. A nuclear Iran is a threat to Israel. Perhaps the only solution is where Israel and Iran are left to deal with each other. If that results in a nuclear confrontation between the two which wipes both of them out - then so be it.

As to accuracy or inaccuracy of information, I present my views based on what has happened in the Middle East, what is happening in the Middle East and projecting my opinion on what might/could/would happen in the Middle East if the same trends continue.

It is only my opinion and I hope is considered as such.

[Michael Hardner]

To Michael - I believe that when Canadian interests are involved then we should get involved.

So we wouldn't have been involved in the former Yugoslavia ? In Africa ?

Innocence and evil are very subjective terms. Innocent of what? Evil implies profound immorality and malevolence. When did we decide that it was Canada's role to fight immorality and malevolence around the world.

It seems to come into the narrative, although some doubt the sincerity of those statements.

I guess you're saying that the US was right to invade Afghanistan and Iraq because it was in their interests ?

Our involvement in the Middle East has resulted in hundreds of thousands of Arab deaths.

But that's ok as long as it's in our interests right ?

You need to get it straight whether we're following some moral code or acting selfishly.

[Michael Hardner]

You have been lied to. Where are Hussein's WMDs?

Yes, good point. They're not above lying to us and I didn't mean to imply that that wasn't possible.

And why is ISIS running around with Hum Vees and other USA military kit?

Uh... what ?

[Big Guy]

To Michael - I try not reply to parsed posts because too often it leads to parsing of parsed posts and parsing of the parsing of parsed posts. I do not make them nor do I like to respond to them. I also take the time to post exactly what I mean and really do not require others to tell me "so what you are saying is". I say what I say. I do read over what I am posting before I hit the "enter" key.

Interpret it as you choose.

I have got my opinion rather "straight" and stay confident in my opinion. As to whether we are "following some moral code or acting selfishly" I suggest that perhaps you should get it straight if we are or are not - in your opinion.

I answer all serious questions when they are presented to me in a civil and friendly manner.

If you want to tangent into a discussion of why Canada got involved in Yugoslavia and/or Africa I suggest you begin a thread focussing on that issue. I try to stay on topic and within a thread.

Thank you for your interest in my views.

[Derek 2.0]

Renewables already can when all costs are considered. Imagine the military cost savings alone. Then add the healthcare savings and benefit to the environment and shared resources. Climate change is already far more deadly and expensive than terrorism. Saving lives and money, not too shabby.

You're preaching to the choir to an extent........my wife drives a Tesla sedan and we're currently building a "green home", but such things are far from cheap...... natural market forces, one day, will drive further green technology to the mainstream, but we're far from there yet......hence the need for cheap fossil fuels......

[bush_cheney2004]

Operation IMPACT: Canada keeps score in the fight against ISIS !

As of 5 March 2015, Air Task Force-Iraq conducted 575 sorties:

• CF-188 Hornet fighter jets conducted 376 sorties;

• CC-150T Polaris aerial refueller conducted 94 sorties, delivering some 5,410,000 pounds of fuel to coalition aircraft; and

• CP-140 Aurora aircraft conducted 105 reconnaissance missions.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/operations-abroad-current/op-impact-airstrikes.page

[Michael Hardner]

I have got my opinion rather "straight" and stay confident in my opinion. As to whether we are "following some moral code or acting selfishly" I suggest that perhaps you should get it straight if we are or are not - in your opinion.

I think that it's both. But you seem to think that it's either, or neither.

I answer all serious questions when they are presented to me in a civil and friendly manner.

Excellent.

If you want to tangent into a discussion of why Canada got involved in Yugoslavia and/or Africa I suggest you begin a thread focussing on that issue. I try to stay on topic and within a thread.

Fair enough, but in pursuing this discussion you have laid out a principle that begs a simple question with a yes/no answer. Another thread would simply have you answering me. Based on your principle, I'll just assume that we wouldn't be involved in those conflicts.

Thank you for your interest in my views.

Not at all, they are interesting....

[Rue]

Big Guy fabricated a claim that Israel wants Canada to go to war with Iran. Let him provide proof of that allegation. He won't. It does not exist. Yet again another ridiculous allegation thrown out.

[Big Guy]

It has just been announced that a Canadian soldier has been killed and two wounded by "friendly" fire. Another precious wasted life. It will be interesting to find out who the "friend" was - Bad Kurds, or good Kurds, or good Iranians or kinda good Iraqis or just some local a little pi$$ed at what is going on.

What are we doing there?

[GostHacked]

It has just been announced that a Canadian soldier has been killed and two wounded by "friendly" fire. Another precious wasted life. It will be interesting to find out who the "friend" was - Bad Kurds, or good Kurds, or good Iranians or kinda good Iraqis or just some local a little pi$$ed at what is going on.

What are we doing there?

We also hear 'no boots on the ground'. Lies.

[Shady]

We also hear 'no boots on the ground'. Lies.

Hey how's that British MI5 agent doing these days? You know the one that's part of ISIL cutting off heads.