kidnapped Israeli teens bodies found

[bush_cheney2004]

Mexico is a democracy and closely aligned.....thousands dead....zip.

Turkey is a democracy and closely aligned....thousands dead....zip.

the Philippines is a democracy and closely aligned....thousands dead....zip.

[Boges]

Mexico is a democracy and closely aligned.....thousands dead....zip.

Turkey is a democracy and closely aligned....thousands dead....zip.

the Philippines is a democracy and closely aligned....thousands dead....zip.

So you're saying it's cuz Israel is full of Jews.

[bush_cheney2004]

So you're saying it's cuz Israel is full of Jews.

I don't know why Israel gets far more attention and criticism than other "closely aligned democracies".....but that certainly seems to be the case. Are there large numbers of "Jews" in Mexico, Turkey, and The Philippines ?

edited to add: The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not even Top Ten for number of fatalities and injured....not even close.

Edited July 25, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Boges]

I don't know why Israel gets far more attention and criticism than other "closely aligned democracies".....but that certainly seems to be the case. Are there large numbers of "Jews" in Mexico, Turkey, and The Philippines ?

I just don't understand why Liberals seem to overlook behaviour from Muslims that would never be accepted coming for Christians, Jews or Secular people.

[dre]

Weve already discussed this at length dre, and I showed you that the cost to get all the needed water from desalination would be an order of magnitude lower than the cost of occupation. So your waste argument simply makes no sense.

Well thats your opinion, but Israel believes otherwise and they are the ones that decide on policy. And they ARE building desalination plants, in places like Ashkelon, Palmachim, Hadera and so on, but these are long term projects, and it will be many decades before they can even supplant natural water sources for TAP water, never mind agriculture. And like I said the problem is getting worse not better.

As far as your argument that desalination would be cheaper than the occupation this also fails a basic logic test. You cant just transition from one to the other... the occupation and use of the massive network of wells, pipelines, and pumping stations would need to continue for decades while desalination plants and another network of wells, pipelines, and pumping stations was built. So you would in fact see a massive escalation in costs.

Israel gets water from the wb because it's the anyway, for what it sees as necessary security reasons.

No water has been a key issue in the conflict every since the six day war. You pretend that its not important but history starkly shows otherwise. Israel and its upstream neighbors have been fighting and squabbling over it constantly, and the six day war that resulted in the current occupation was preceeded by hundreds of clashes over attempts by both sides to divert the river jordans headwaters starting with Israels National Water Carrier, and culminating in its bombing of Syria over similar arab diversion projects. The period between 1960-1967 was actually called "war over water" (Hebrew: המלחמה על המים, HaMilhama al HaMaim) by Israelis at the time.

As recently as 2003, Israel theated to bomb lebanon over taking water from its own river (the Hasbani).

Then you have dozens of quotes by prominent Israeli politicians like Ariel Sharon describing giving up water resources in the west bank as "accepting death", and the severe restrictions placed on palestinians use of their own water.

Your argument just doesnt hold "water". All players on all decides describe it as a major obstacle to peace. The events, statements, history and currently reality make that abundantly clear. And as I said things are getting worse... theres a lot of worry that increased water scarcity will spark a bigger regional conflict in the area.

[Hal 9000]

I just don't understand why Liberals seem to overlook behaviour from Muslims that would never be accepted coming for Christians, Jews or Secular people.

Udunno, Maybe our friends to the left are on to something. Maybe we should implement laws that value woman as half a man, maybe we should imprison a homosexual for 3 years and give him 400 or so lashings, stone young girls for premarital sex, cut off our wives clitoris, sentence 10yo's to death when a dirty old man gets turned on by her, honour kill our family, deny our girls education among other things.

I mean, if the left support it from other nations, surely they'd love it here too...right?

Oh yeah, and if anyone disagrees with our beliefs - execute then in the city square.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Hal 9000

[-TSS-]

Gaza is nothing else than a pit of sand. Therefore it was easy for Israel to give it up and remove its settlers from their by force as the place has no religious significance whatsoever.

It is a different story with West-Bank and especially East-Jerusalem.

[cybercoma]

Gaza continues to get what it deserves for electing Hamas. Israel should turn the entire strip into a sheet of glass in the desert. You want to elect a government that's going to use violence against a neighbour that has you outgunned, you pay the consequences. If you didn't want terrorist scum representing you, then you should have left Gaza. Anyone that sticks around is getting exactly what they deserve.

[GostHacked]

Gaza is nothing else than a pit of sand. Therefore it was easy for Israel to give it up and remove its settlers from their by force as the place has no religious significance whatsoever.

It is a different story with West-Bank and especially East-Jerusalem.

Is the claim on the land solely due to religious dogma? That does not seem to contribute to a solid two state solution. God is going to end up kicking you all out of the temple. Both sides are acting like children.

[Argus]

Places like Syria aren't democracies with whom are countries are closely aligned and with whom we maintain close relations?

I don't buy that all the attention on Israel is because it's a democratic state. Hell, according to some of these jokers it's a nazi apartheid dictatorship. Nope. Something else involved.

[Argus]

Zero chance of Israel giving it back no matter who is in charge.

It needs the water.

Here are their potentional water resources...

Resource Replenishable Quantities (MCM/year) The Coastal Aquifer 320 The Mountain Aquifer 370 Lake Kinneret 700 Additional Regional Resources 410 Total Average 1,800

Access to both the Mountain Aquifier, and the Kinneret Basin is secured by occupation.

There was a plan to run a water pipeline from Turkey for the use of both Israel and Jordan before Turkey's government decided to beef up its Islamist credentials. That could be included as part of a peace plan.

[Argus]

Man this stupid question has been asked and answered so many times. When its answered (and its really easy to answer) you guys ABANDON THREAD!!! Then a few weeks later you trott this idiocy out again! If you want an answer to that question why dont you go back and read the answers you have already been given dozens of times before?

An answer which makes sense?

[Argus]

I just don't understand why Liberals seem to overlook behaviour from Muslims that would never be accepted coming for Christians, Jews or Secular people.

No better example than Queers against Israeli Apartheid. Siding with people who despise, hate and want to kill them against the only state in the middle east where a man or woman can be openly gay without being beaten to death.

[Bonam]

Man this stupid question has been asked and answered so many times. When its answered (and its really easy to answer) you guys ABANDON THREAD!!! Then a few weeks later you trott this idiocy out again! If you want an answer to that question why dont you go back and read the answers you have already been given dozens of times before?

The answer that since some Western governments support Israel it deserves far more criticism? How come this fails to apply in the same way to, say, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, or Palestine itself, which all also receive significant Western funding? Also, even putting aside that inconsistency, I'm not sure I really understand the ethics behind the answer. Why are certain people more motivated to criticize states that the country they live in is more friendly with? What does the alignment of a particular state with other states have to do with the objective assessment of the "badness" of its actions, which, to my thinking, should be the primary motivator of any criticism? Do states aligned with our geopolitical rivals deserve more or less criticism under this complex vilification algorithm?

To me it seems much simpler. If a government slaughters tens of thousands of its own innocent people with chemical weapons, that's really bad. If a government kills a few dozen civilians as part of a strike targeting a group of militants that are launching rockets... that's unfortunate, but far less of an atrocity than the first example. The first deserves far more condemnation than the second, period (regardless of which state is allied with who). In fact, the second may not really deserve condemnation at all, depending on the specific circumstances, such as the ones in Gaza where Israel did everything it could, warning civilians for days in advance to evacuate an area.

You may think the question is "easy to answer well", but to most anyone who disagrees with the Israel-bashing that is propagated by most media, the single-minded focus of the world on that one tiny state, even while far greater atrocities are committed all around it, remains a mystery, difficult to explain by anything other than some kind of severe bias.

[jbg]

It's gonna be hard to play this one off as a 'human shield' thing. But they will try.

Even the U.N. has said that Hamas is storing weaponry in schools.

[jbg]

There was a plan to run a water pipeline from Turkey for the use of both Israel and Jordan before Turkey's government decided to beef up its Islamist credentials. That could be included as part of a peace plan.

That is actually something constructive and that would make sense. Better than the Gazans' blowing up of Israel's greenhouses minutes after Israel left. And people complain about Gaza being an open-air prison. Go figure.

[Hudson Jones]

There is the Israeli spin and there are Israeli actions.

“Israel does not want peace,” writes Gideon Levy, the respected Israeli columnist in Haaretz newspaper. “In recent years, Israel has moved away from even the aspiration to make peace . . . The preservation of the status quo has become the true Israeli aim, the primary goal of Israeli policy, almost its be-all and end-all. The problem is that the existing situation cannot last forever. Historically, few nations have ever agreed to live under occupation without resistance . . . The Palestinians have made more than one mistake but their mistakes are marginal. Basic justice is on their side and basic rejectionism is the Israelis’ purview. The Israelis want occupation, not peace. I only hope I am wrong.”

But, as Kerry has said, the status quo “cannot be maintained.”

Netanyahu thinks it can be.

The rest is spin.

As Vancouver author Gabor Maté wrote:

“The powerful party has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators . . . Israel’s ‘right to defend itself,’ unarguable in principle, does not validate mass killing.”

[Shady]

There is the Israeli spin and there are Israeli actions.

“Israel does not want peace,” writes Gideon Levy, the respected Israeli columnist in Haaretz newspaper. “In recent years, Israel has moved away from even the aspiration to make peace . . . The preservation of the status quo has become the true Israeli aim, the primary goal of Israeli policy, almost its be-all and end-all. The problem is that the existing situation cannot last forever. Historically, few nations have ever agreed to live under occupation without resistance . . . The Palestinians have made more than one mistake but their mistakes are marginal. Basic justice is on their side and basic rejectionism is the Israelis’ purview. The Israelis want occupation, not peace. I only hope I am wrong.”

But, as Kerry has said, the status quo “cannot be maintained.”

Netanyahu thinks it can be.

The rest is spin.

As Vancouver author Gabor Maté wrote:

“The powerful party has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators . . . Israel’s ‘right to defend itself,’ unarguable in principle, does not validate mass killing.”

I agree, at least for now Israel doesn't want peace. And nor should they. Peace just means Hamas gets a chance to rebuild, reload and restock. You have to decimate them for any lasting peace.

[marcus]

Here is a fascinating interview with Ali Abunimah of Electronic Intifada and J.J. Goldberg of the Jewish Daily Forward on Democracy Now. Abunimah dismantles and calls out the Liberal Zionists.

[GostHacked]

Even the U.N. has said that Hamas is storing weaponry in schools.

Hamas will store them anywhere they can. They are not a legitimate standing army. Israel won't let the Palestinians have one. So, rules of war and engagement are out the door on the Hamas side. Terror like guerrilla tactics.

Not letting them have a standing army is putting civilians at risk of 'collateral damage'

Maybe we can take the leaders of both sides, tie their hands together and give them each a knife. TWO GO IN, ONE COMES OUT. Let's put an end to this stupidity.

[Rue]

Lol. Uh yah, John Kerry has credibility as a mediator. He's a joke. This is a man who is openly anti Israel and incited Palestinian extremists posing as a mediator. His exact comment was that Israel should withdraw from the West Bank unilaterally with no conditions as to disarming terrorists on the West Bank to the 1967 borders, plus they should not ask Hamas to abandon its Charter or the PA to recognize its right to exist as a Jewish state. Then this iidiot after saying this to Netanyahu in front of Abbas and observers reporting back to Hamas then stated to Mr.Abbas, if Israel didn't do that, they should expect an intifada.

This coming from someone who claims to be a mediator. He typified one thing what being a mentally retarded bafoon is.

But hey let's talk more about this bafoon shall we, this is someone who on air sneered at Israel's pin point precision bombing. Yes this coming from someone who condemned the Russians shooting missiles in at the Ukraine and then spews such nonsense.

Kerry reflects the absolute failure of Obama foreign policy. He is without a doubt the worst Secretary of State in US history. He walks into crisis after crisis and inserts his foot up his ass time and time again. He puffs and postures and then the US does NOTHING to back up his words.

If the US had not abandon its role on the world stage with the Obama regime sucking up to the Muslim Brotherhoods in Egypt and Turkey not to mention Iran and rendering itself a fool in Syria, the Ukraine and let's not forget alienating all 3 of its Middle East allies, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Israel does anyone think this crap would be going down.

The fact is without a strong US presence in the Middle East, the vacuum that has arisen has allowed terrorists to flex their muscle in Iraq, Syria, Gaza, West Bank, on and on.

Until a strong American foreign policy presence is re-established in the Middle east this will get even worse.

Its completely unfair to expect the US to save the world time and time again but the fact is, who else has been able to keep the lid on the Middle East?

Who? Russia? China? Turkey? Right.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....Its completely unfair to expect the US to save the world time and time again but the fact is, who else has been able to keep the lid on the Middle East?

Canadian "peacekeepers" will save the day, no ?

[marcus]

Lol. Uh yah, John Kerry has credibility as a mediator. He's a joke. This is a man who is openly anti Israel and incited Palestinian extremists posing as a mediator. His exact comment was that Israel should withdraw from the West Bank unilaterally with no conditions as to disarming terrorists on the West Bank to the 1967 borders, plus they should not ask Hamas to abandon its Charter or the PA to recognize its right to exist as a Jewish state.

Really? Those were his exact comment?

Who are you Rue and why do you make up what people say?

[Black Dog]

I don't buy that all the attention on Israel is because it's a democratic state. Hell, according to some of these jokers it's a nazi apartheid dictatorship. Nope. Something else involved.

So we're clear: do you feel the only reason an individual can be critical of Israel is that they hate Jews?

[cybercoma]

So we're clear: do you feel the only reason an individual can be critical of Israel is that they hate Jews?

No, but just about the only imaginable reason that someone would give Hamas a pass on targeting innocent Jews with rocket fire is that they hate Jews. I'm not sure under what circumstances you think intentionally targeting innocent civilians is ok, but it seems to be when it's Jews, but not when it's Palestinians.