PIK Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Hamas exists to fight the Israeli seige and oppression of Gaza, and illegal Israeli settlements. IE, Hamas exists to fight aggressive and illegal Israeli expansionism. . Gaza is not occupied by Israel nor has it been in 10 yrs. They left and took a bunch of settlers with them and guess what happened? Hamas moves in and starts firing rockets. It is hamas that is not abiding by the truces. It is hamas that is keeping the war going. It is hamas that is setting up it's own people to be killed. It is hamas that is building tunnels into Israel to go in and kill people or even worse a old WW1 move, load the tunnels with explosives and BOOM . Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
dre Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 And what if Israel wants to define itself as a Jewish state. Thats fine! Its a little sad because mixing religion and statehood is such a horrible idea, but its totally within their right to do so, and thats what they have done. Its nobodies business but theirs though, and all thats required for Israel to have peace with its neighbors is for them to respect its sovereignty territory and borders. In any case its besides the point because Likud will never accept an arab state west of the Jordan no matter what palestinians do or say. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
TimG Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) "Irrelevant semantics?" Tell that to the Israeli government and those who support this condition.Please provide evidence of any relevant player who says simply recognizing Israel is not enough because I suspect most people (including me) never even realized that people made such a distinction (i.e. if Hamas recognized Israel most people would assume it means recognizing the fact that Israel is a Jewish state). I suspect this entire line of argument is untrue propaganda invented to obfuscate the unreasonable positions of Hamas and I bet that if Hamas came out and clearly stated that it will recognize Israel but not as a Jewish state that some people might grumble but the demand that 'Hamas recognize Israel' would quickly become a non-issue. Edited July 29, 2014 by TimG Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Gaza is not occupied by Israel nor has it been in 10 yrs. You are wrong because you do not know the meaning of occupation. When Israel has control over the borders, the air, the sea and what goes in and out, they are considered an occupier. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
cybercoma Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Israel is as bad as Hamas right now. They're not allowing refugees to flee Gaza and they're dropping bombs that they know will kill innocent civilians. Israel is certainly not innocent in all of this and their response has gone from inevitable to despicable. Again, the key issue is that they're not allowing people to escape. It's like the cops telling protesters to leave, while they have them kettled in, only to pepper spray them for not leaving. Quote
Shady Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Israel is as bad as Hamas right now. They're not allowing refugees to flee Gaza and they're dropping bombs that they know will kill innocent civilians. Israel is certainly not innocent in all of this and their response has gone from inevitable to despicable. Again, the key issue is that they're not allowing people to escape. It's like the cops telling protesters to leave, while they have them kettled in, only to pepper spray them for not leaving. Egypt's not allowing refugees to flee Gaza either. Quote
Smallc Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 It's hard to let refugees flee when they might have bombs strapped to them...or did we forget that already? Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 It's hard to let refugees flee when they might have bombs strapped to them...or did we forget that already? Yes. They might have bombs strapped to them while trying to flee the carpet bombing. Therefore, smallc disagrees with allowing the women and children to escape the bombings, because he thinks they might have bombs strapped to them and so they should die. I hope nobody forgets that. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Argus Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 They are protecting their citizens with the Iron Dome. Their citizens are safe against Hamas. The iron dome is far from perfect. One of the main reasons there haven't been more casualties (it's wrong to say no one has been killed or hurt but soldiers) is that the Israelis have a well-developed program of bomb shelters. How would you feel if you had to run to bomb shelters every other day? How would you feel knowing your children, at school, had to run for bomb shelters every other day? People are sleeping in bomb shelters. And there's no reason why they should have to continue because Hamas hates Jews and wants to kill them. As for the Palestinian people, they voted in Hamas. There seems little doubt they will do it again - overwhelmingly. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bonam Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Israel is as bad as Hamas right now. They're not allowing refugees to flee Gaza and they're dropping bombs that they know will kill innocent civilians. Israel is certainly not innocent in all of this and their response has gone from inevitable to despicable. Again, the key issue is that they're not allowing people to escape. It's like the cops telling protesters to leave, while they have them kettled in, only to pepper spray them for not leaving. Israel warned civilians to leave the areas where they were going to be targetting Hamas tunnels and rockets days in advance, thus doing everything they could to reduce civilian casualties. Hamas forcefully prevented civilians from leaving. Get your facts straight. Quote
Argus Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Recognizing Israel and recognizing Israel as a Jewish state are two different things. The latter is the one that people keep saying is a necessary precondition to peace. I've yet to see an answer as to why that is the case. I presume recognizing it as a Jewish state avoids the possibility (probability) that they could say, "Well, yes, we recognize Israel is a state, but we don't accept all those dirty Jews being part of it, much less running things." Israel is nowhere near as Jewish a state as Saudi Arabia is a Muslim state. There are no churches or temples in Saudi Arabia. No one is allowed to convert to any other religion upon pain of death. Even visitors or foreign workers cannot worship openly or wear any kind of religious symbols. Non Muslims are not even allowed in their holy city. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Yes. They might have bombs strapped to them while trying to flee the carpet bombing. Therefore, smallc disagrees with allowing the women and children to escape the bombings, because he thinks they might have bombs strapped to them and so they should die. I hope nobody forgets that. They did before. That's why they're stuck there. Oh and no one is carpet bombing. They don't even have that capability. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Cartoons are great! Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Hamas forcefully prevented civilians from leaving. Get your facts straight. Is this according to actual factual information or Bonam Intelligence Service? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Guest Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Cartoons are great! They are! It's great how they are connected, with the cause of the second being shown in the first. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 They did before. That's why they're stuck there. Oh and no one is carpet bombing. They don't even have that capability. Really? They don't have the capability to carpet bomb? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QpGjNWimYI Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 They are! It's great how they are connected, with the cause of the second being shown in the first. There is very little proof and evidence that Israel is targeting rocket launchers. There is ample proof and evidence that Israel is engaging in collective punishment. This is why we're seeing carpet bombings and flattening of neighbourhoods. You cannot burn a whole hay stack in order to get to the needle. It's not only explicitly illegal but it's immoral and sick. Stop trying to justify massacre of innocent civilians. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Smallc Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Really? They don't have the capability to carpet bomb? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QpGjNWimYI So you know what carpet bombing is? It requires a dedicated bomber. Quote
Guest Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 There is very little proof and evidence that Israel is targeting rocket launchers. There is ample proof and evidence that Israel is engaging in collective punishment. This is why we're seeing carpet bombings and flattening of neighbourhoods. You cannot burn a whole hay stack in order to get to the needle. It's not only explicitly illegal but it's immoral and sick. Stop trying to justify massacre of innocent civilians. Maybe someone should buy the Israelis a dictionary, so they can look up "massacre". Nowhere in mine does it say you warn the potential victims first. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 True...if Israel really wanted to "massacre" Gazans, the death toll would be much, much higher. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Hamas exists to fight the Israeli seige and oppression of Gaza, and illegal Israeli settlements. IE, Hamas exists to fight aggressive and illegal Israeli expansionism. . And kill Jews, wherever in the world they are found. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 Israel is as bad as Hamas right now. They're not allowing refugees to flee Gaza and they're dropping bombs that they know will kill innocent civilians. Israel is certainly not innocent in all of this and their response has gone from inevitable to despicable. Again, the key issue is that they're not allowing people to escape. It's like the cops telling protesters to leave, while they have them kettled in, only to pepper spray them for not leaving. Where are they being stopped from fleeing into? Obviously they can't 'flee' into Israel. Is Israel preventing them from 'fleeing' into Egypt? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Posted July 29, 2014 They don't seem to have any trouble "fleeing" to China....via underground tunnels. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted July 30, 2014 Report Posted July 30, 2014 Maybe someone should buy the Israelis a dictionary, so they can look up "massacre". Nowhere in mine does it say you warn the potential victims first. You mean the 1000+ people killed (with over 85% civilians) were warned by Israel that they were going to be bombed, but they purposely stayed in their homes? "Precision bombing" "Warnings" "Hamas use of human shield" This is all propaganda used by the well-oiled PR machine and repeated by you in order to legitimize the slaughter of innocent people. It's not working as well as it used to. The facts, including the videos of the one-sided carnage is too much to stomach for those who feel empathy and are not prone to psychopathic tendencies. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
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