Hal 9000 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Theyre screwed no matter what they do. Theyre destined to get herded into less land with less value. They ShOULD resist the occupation and conquest of their land though. The only faint chance they have of getting their own state is if the balance of power in the world changes, and the world decides to put the same kind of pressure on Israel to end the occupation that they put on SA to end aparthied. But for that to happen they need to keep the conflict front and center and keep resisting. So, they're getting exactly what they want and you're getting what you want - what's the problem? One dude on TV compared Hamas to zombies, they have no strategy, no end game, they can't really win a field battle but they just keep coming. Edited July 19, 2014 by Hal 9000 Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Boges Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Hamas gets a huge fail horn for picking the wrong time to start this war. With Isis doing their thing and this jet in the Ukraine: they have been swept off the front pages. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 It bothers me a great deal that Israel refuses to live within its legal borders, is a chronic aggressor and has no real commitment to peace. The rockets from Gaza are irritating, but haven't been particularly harmful. Israel's aggressive and deadly response is disgusting ... once again ... and it is Israel's actions that prevent two-state peace. . Your twisted sense of morality disgusts me. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 It's amazingly hypocritical of some of you to justify Hamas trying of slaughter innocent civilians while criticizing Israel for not being more judicious about attacking Hamas when they hide behind innocent human shields. That you'll sit here and root for attacks targeting civilian populations,whether successful or not, seriously sickens me. You should be ashamed of yourselves and more importantly, you have absolutely no leg to stand on for criticizing Israel's actions when you condone them on the other side. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 It's amazingly hypocritical of some of you to justify Hamas trying of slaughter innocent civilians while criticizing Israel for not being more judicious about attacking Hamas when they hide behind innocent human shields. That you'll sit here and root for attacks targeting civilian populations,whether successful or not, seriously sickens me. You should be ashamed of yourselves and more importantly, you have absolutely no leg to stand on for criticizing Israel's actions when you condone them on the other side. Maybe some of these people would have more tolerance for Israel if they locked their own people out of their bomb shelters. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
WestCoastRunner Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 It's amazingly hypocritical of some of you to justify Hamas trying of slaughter innocent civilians while criticizing Israel for not being more judicious about attacking Hamas when they hide behind innocent human shields. That you'll sit here and root for attacks targeting civilian populations,whether successful or not, seriously sickens me. You should be ashamed of yourselves and more importantly, you have absolutely no leg to stand on for criticizing Israel's actions when you condone them on the other side. That's a pretty harsh attack against folks who disagree with Israel's slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians. (to borrow your phrase) Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
marcus Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Of course...the big bad Palestine Rocket Club will surely win the war....any day decade now. Rockets and missiles are not going to win or end anything. International backing and the isolation of the other side will. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Rockets and missiles are not going to win or end anything. International backing and the isolation of the other side will. Good luck with that....the international backers are hoping for an effective invasion of Gaza to achieve Israel's objectives with the fewest casualties. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) NBC is forced to reverse its decision and reassign Ayman Mohyeldin back to Gaza! Times are changing--big corporate media are in shambles --this is the clear indication of the power of new media-- WE made this possible: we simple, ordinary, selfless, principled, fair, just and altogether magnificent people who harbor no malice toward anyone--by coming out of our cocoon of indifference, getting ourselves educated, learning about the world around us, caring about it--we are not helpless--quite to the contrary: we are the real SUPERPOWER! NBC reverses; Mohyeldin to return to Gaza to cover ‘Palestinian side of story’ Edited July 19, 2014 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Smallc Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 That's a pretty harsh attack against folks who disagree with Israel's slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians. (to borrow your phrase) And that's exactly what he's talking about - good job. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 It's amazingly hypocritical of some of you to justify Hamas trying of slaughter innocent civilians while criticizing Israel for not being more judicious about attacking Hamas when they hide behind innocent human shields. That you'll sit here and root for attacks targeting civilian populations,whether successful or not, seriously sickens me. You should be ashamed of yourselves and more importantly, you have absolutely no leg to stand on for criticizing Israel's actions when you condone them on the other side. The latest reports have over 300 Palestinian civilians killed and more hundreds wounded – and 1 Israeli civilian and 1 Israeli soldier (reported as a casualty of friendly fire) killed and 5 wounded. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKBN0FI04420140718 I assume that you agree with our PM Harper that this is a “measured response”? I do not think this a “measured response”. It looks to me like a one sided slaughter. Be it one civilian killed or 1000 civilians killed it is wrong! But to claim that Israel is not reacting in a disproportionate manner is also wrong. Attempting to rationalize the killing of ANY innocent civilians sickens me. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Theyre screwed no matter what they do. Theyre destined to get herded into less land with less value. They ShOULD resist the occupation and conquest of their land though. The only faint chance they have of getting their own state is if the balance of power in the world changes, and the world decides to put the same kind of pressure on Israel to end the occupation that they put on SA to end aparthied. But for that to happen they need to keep the conflict front and center and keep resisting. The conflict has been front and center for decades and they are getting nowhere. Do you support "The war on drugs" too? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 I don't get this 'measured response' bullshit. I don't even know where it comes from. If some little guy walks over to a big guy and slaps him in the face, does anyone think the big guy is going to have to restrain his response to only slapping the little guy back, and only as hard as the little guy slapped him? Do the police do a 'measured response' when someone shoots at them? Do people say it's unfair that the police outnumber the guy shooting at them, and shouldn't use fifty guys against only one shooter? You use what you have to minimize your casualties, and you use what you have to to stop people from attacking your people. End of story. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 It's amazingly hypocritical of some of you to justify Hamas trying of slaughter innocent civilians while criticizing Israel for not being more judicious about attacking Hamas when they hide behind innocent human shields. That you'll sit here and root for attacks targeting civilian populations,whether successful or not, seriously sickens me. You should be ashamed of yourselves and more importantly, you have absolutely no leg to stand on for criticizing Israel's actions when you condone them on the other side.Nobody's condoning any attacks, but there is a matter of proportion that concerns a lot of people.. Quote
Guest Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Nobody's condoning any attacks, but there is a matter of proportion that concerns a lot of people. . Further to what Argus said about proportion in the post above yours, how do you suggest Israel go about a more proportional response? The rockets are kept in schools and mosques, family homes and public places. The alternative to destroying them would only be to leave them functional, and risk Israeli casualties. The Israelis warn people when they are about to destroy a rocket site. I can't remember any other conflict where that was common practice. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 It's amazingly hypocritical of some of you to justify Hamas trying of slaughter innocent civilians while criticizing Israel for not being more judicious about attacking Hamas when they hide behind innocent human shields. That you'll sit here and root for attacks targeting civilian populations,whether successful or not, seriously sickens me. You should be ashamed of yourselves and more importantly, you have absolutely no leg to stand on for criticizing Israel's actions when you condone them on the other side. Where are they going to hide? Israel won't allow them to have a standing military, so by that one should expect these guerrilla tactics. How else are you going to fight off an occupation? Quote
GostHacked Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Further to what Argus said about proportion in the post above yours, how do you suggest Israel go about a more proportional response? The rockets are kept in schools and mosques, family homes and public places. The alternative to destroying them would only be to leave them functional, and risk Israeli casualties. The Israelis warn people when they are about to destroy a rocket site. I can't remember any other conflict where that was common practice. I would say suspected missile site. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 I don't get this 'measured response' bullshit. I don't even know where it comes from. It came out of 19th century Germany and subsequent Hague/Geneva conventions that defined proportionality and distinction law. I guess the Europeans got tired of scorched earth, killing, raping, and pillaging after practicing same for over 2,000 years. The modern interpretation is probably driven by the lack of formal declarations of war and non-state actors. Technology has also kept pace with far more accurate targeting and munitions. At its most absurd, it is only "legal" to nuke somebody if they nuke you first. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
TimG Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 For those of you arguing that removing Israeli settlements in the West Bank would solve the problem: In 2005 Israel removed all settlements from Gaza - forcibly evicting many Israeli in the process. Yet here we are in 2014 and Gaza is as hopeless as it has always been and it is used as a staging ground for attacks on Israel. Given that context why does anyone thing that a unilateral withdrawal from the West Bank would solve anything? The only solution to this problem rests with Palestinians. They must stop supporting Hamas and other extremist groups that refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 For those of you arguing that removing Israeli settlements in the West Bank would solve the problem: The only solution to this problem rests with Palestinians. They must stop supporting Hamas and other extremist groups that refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist. To those being occupied, removing the settlements in only one area is a half assed job. ALL of them must go. ALL of them. It takes a lot of resources to build these settlements. Many of the materials used are the same ones denied to the Palestinians because of a blockade. Not only that, Israel puts it's own citizens at risk by allowing these settlements. Part of the reason you see a high security contingency in these enclaves. They are settlements, but the media likes to call them 'quite jewish neighborhoods' without disclosing the location. Allowing people to think that this is Israel proper getting attacked. So why does Israel put it's own citizens at risk of attack by creating settlements in the occupied territories? Quote
jacee Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) /Hamas-publishes-cease-fire-initiative Hamas and other Palestiniian armed groups in the Gaza Strip on Saturday published their own initiative for a cease-fire with Israel. The initiative, which is backed by Qatar, calls for an immediate and comprehensive cease-fire, the lifting of the blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip eight years ago and the release of Palestinians who were arrested by Israel in recent weeks in the West Bank. According to the website Al-Arabi Al-Jadeed, Qatar has delivered the initiative to US Secretary of State John Kerry, who, in turn, relayed it to Israel.It claimed that the initiative has been sponsored by the US, Qatar and Turkey. The initiative calls for activating the port in the Gaza Strip to allow goods and fuel to enter the area. It also calls for an end to the economic and financial sanctions imposed on the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. The US is sponsoring this? That's a surprising turn of events. A turning point? . Edited July 19, 2014 by jacee Quote
iolo Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Mossad and 9.11? Doesn't everyone take that for granted? Cui bono? as they say while they shoot children! Edited July 19, 2014 by iolo Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 ...The US is sponsoring this? That's a surprising turn of events. A turning point? . Nope....pure posturing that will amount to nothing. Let the diplomats play while the invasion continues to find tunnels, launchers, and rockets. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Nope....pure posturing that will amount to nothing. Let the diplomats play while the invasion continues to find tunnels, launchers, and rockets. Yeah the US's posturing over the past few years has been nothing but posturing. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMAxFlldes What is Israel's stance on arresting children? Quote
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