marcus Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Israeli crowd cheering as bombs and missiles hit the Palestinians. These people are scum from the bottom of the barrel. Link Here is the video of the cheering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0R6OZkMPY Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
dre Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Iraq was invaded on humanitarian grounds? Yup that was one of the flimsy lies anyhow. You ignored the rest of my post though... its really clear and obvious why CONFLICT: DIRTFARM gets so much focus. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 The rockets don't just happen. They're a response to Israel's provocations and attacks. It's exactly what Israel looks for to unleash their mighty American financed military arsenal. Seems to work as designed....certainly preferable to the mighty Iranian financed military arsenal used to attack people in Israel with rockets, terror tunnels, and suicide bombers. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Here is the video of the cheering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0R6OZkMPY Guess what happened to her? She was removed from Gaza by CNN. Coincidentally, after filing moving first-hand reports on the deaths of 4 Palestinian children, NBC News pulled one of their star reporters from Gaza. Why are they obstructing good journalism now, just as the ground invasion begins? Who says the Zionist lobby has any influence on the U.S. media? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Seems to work as designed.... 3 attacks on a defenseless population on a tiny strip of land in the past 5 years and it's obvious it hasn't worked. Israel is no more secure than before and more attention is now given to the plight of the Palestinians by the international community. Time is ticking for the Zionist regime. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
dre Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Someone who actually wanted to improve things for the Palestinian people. Its unlikely that ANYTHING the palestinians did would make any difference to how the Israelis treat them. Prior to the latest intifada the PLO had managed to almost completely eliminate attacks against Israel from the occupied territories. Not only did settlement building increase to record levels but Ariel "The Butcher" Sharon went to the temple mount with hundreds of armed troops to deliberately provoke them. Same goes with present day. Abass has managed to almost eliminate attacks against Israel from the west bank, thrown militants in jail, and agreed to recognize Israel as a state.... The result? More provocation... more settlement building. There is ZERO chance for any negotiated solution with Israel while LIkud is in power. Its in their constitution that they will continue to conquer land outside of Israel... The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people Its in their constitution that they will never allow a Palestinian State. "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river." The irony of course is palpable. We have the Israeli Likud government whining about the palestinian recognition of a JEWISH state... When it says right in their constitution they will never accept any Palestinian state AT ALL. So to pretend that if Palestinians changed their behavior that it would do them any good is ignorant of history and just a plain fantasy. Israel plans to settle the occupied territories and they will not change course regardless of what Palestinians do. Palestinians have about as much chance of negotiating a deal with Israel as a chicken does with a fox. Edited July 18, 2014 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
marcus Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Here is an article from The New York Times that gets into the nitty-gritty. JERUSALEM — AS Hamas fires rockets at Israeli cities and Israel follows up its extensive airstrikes with a ground operation in the Gaza Strip, the most immediate cause of this latest war has been ignored: Israel and much of the international community placed a prohibitive set of obstacles in the way of he Palestinian “national consensus” government that was formed in early June. That government was created largely because of Hamas’s desperation and isolation. The group’s alliance with Syria and Iran was in shambles. Its affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt became a liability after a July 2013 coup replaced an ally, President Mohamed Morsi, with a bitter adversary, Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Hamas’s coffers dried up as General Sisi closed the tunnels that had brought to Gaza the goods and tax revenues on which it depended. Seeing a region swept by popular protests against leaders who couldn’t provide for their citizens’ basic needs, Hamas opted to give up official control of Gaza rather than risk being overthrown. Despite having won the last elections, in 2006, Hamas decided to transfer formal authority to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah. That decision led to a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization, on terms set almost entirely by the P.L.O. chairman and Palestinian Authoritypresident, Mahmoud Abbas. Israel immediately sought to undermine the reconciliation agreement by preventing Hamas leaders and Gaza residents from obtaining the two most essential benefits of the deal: the payment of salaries to 43,000 civil servants who worked for the Hamas government and continue to administer Gaza under the new one, and the easing of the suffocating border closures imposed by Israel and Egypt that bar most Gazans’ passage to the outside world. Edited July 18, 2014 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
iolo Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 One thing is certain - all the Zionists want to do is introduce death camps. They learned well. We did too: they should be tried and, if guilty, hanged. Quote
Black Dog Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 One thing is certain - all the Zionists want to do is introduce death camps. They learned well. We did too: they should be tried and, if guilty, hanged. I'd say it was nice knowing having you around, but.... Quote
Boges Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Lots of thing oil hat accusations going on here. I'm waiting for someone to say Zionists were behind 911. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 3 attacks on a defenseless population on a tiny strip of land in the past 5 years and it's obvious it hasn't worked. Israel is no more secure than before and more attention is now given to the plight of the Palestinians by the international community. Time is ticking for the Zionist regime. Of course...the big bad Palestine Rocket Club will surely win the war....any day decade now. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) It seems clear that once Hamas has spent its supply of rockets it'll call for a ceasefire. Unless of course this latest incursion effectively neutralizes Hamas' ability to fire rockets at Israel. My question is how will they resupply.Egypt is not controlled by a sympathetic regime currently and currently the other mid-east powers that funded the Hamas effort is pre-occupied with the Syrian civil war and ISIS. Edited July 18, 2014 by Boges Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Hey, if endless rocket attacks against civilians was a good strategy, we would all be doing it ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Rue Posted July 18, 2014 Author Report Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Black dog has raised an issue as to whether as part of the peace negotiations Israel should have accepted responsibility for the creation of Palestinian refugees. For Israel to do that would fly in the face of the role of the Arab League of Nations in deliberately imprisoning Palestinians in refugee camps as pawns after they could not rid Palestine of Jews. Its interesting because the Arab world would like to revise history. In fact here is what Arab leaders said about their own culpability for creating Palestinian refugees: ON APRIL 23, 1948 Jamal Husseini, acting chairman of the Palestine ArabHigher Committee (AHC), told the UN Security Council: "The Arabs did notwant to submit to a truce ... They preferred to abandon their homes,belongings and everything they possessed." ON SEPTEMBER 6, 1948, the Beirut Daily Telegraph quoted Emil Ghory, secretary of the AHC, as saying: "The fact that there are those refugees isthe direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposingpartition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously..." ON JUNE 8, 1951, Habib Issa, secretary-general of the Arab League, wrote in the New York Lebanese daily al-Hoda that in 1948, Azzam Pasha, then League secretary, had "assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade ... Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes and property, and to stay temporarily in neighbouring fraternal states." IN THE MARCH 1976 issue of Falastin a-Thaura, then the official journal of the Beirut-based PLO, Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen"), PLO spokesman, wrote: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live." ON APRIL 9, 1953, the Jordanian daily al-Urdun quoted a refugee, Yunes Ahmed Assad, formerly of Deir Yassin, as saying: "For the flight and fall of the other villages, it is our leaders who are responsible, because of the dissemination of rumours exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... they instilled fear and terror into the hearts of the Arabs of Palestine until they fled, leaving their homes and property to the enemy." ANOTHER refugee told the Jordanian daily a-Difaa on September 6, 1954: "The Arab governments told us, 'Get out so that we can get in.' So we got out, but they did not get in." THE JORDANIAN daily Falastin wrote on February 19, 1949: "The Arab states... encouraged the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies." ON OCTOBER 2, 1948, the London Economist reported, in an eyewitness account of the flight of Haifa's Arabs: "There is little doubt that the most potent of the factors [in the flight] were the announcements made over the air by the Arab Higher Executive urging all Arabs in Haifa to quit ... And it was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades." THE PRIME Minister of Syria in 1948, Khaled al-Azem, in his memoirs, published in 1973, listed what he thought were the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948: " ... the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it and leave for the bordering Arab countries ... We brought destruction upon a million Arab refugees bycalling on them and pleading with them to leave their land." FOLLOWING a visit to refugees in Gaza, a British diplomat reported the following: 'But while they express no bitterness against the Jews...they speak with the utmost bitterness of the Egyptians and other Arab states: 'We know who our enemies are,' they will say, and they are referring to their Arab brothers who, they declare, persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes." British Foreign Office Document #371/75342/XC/A/4991 [From "Revising or Devising Israel's History" by Prof. Shlomo Slonim in Jewish Action, Summer 5760/2000, Vol. 60 #4] source for the above: http://www.sullivan-county.com/id4/pr.htm The actual wording the Arab League of Nations and the Palestinian Authority wants would release the Arab League from their legal liability for what they did to Palestinians. That won't happen. Israel maintains that it is not responsible for the Palestinian refugee problem since it iwas the result of a war forced on Israel by invading Arab armies. The fact is the Arab League initiated the war that directly led to the displacements of Palestinians. The State of Israel has stated and that includes Begin, Rabin, Barak and Netanyahu and in fact all PM's since 1949, that on humanitarian grounds it would participate in an international effort to aid Palestinian reefugees in a second state of Palestine, an international compensation fund, and individual cases of family reunification. The State of Israel has also stated any international effort would also need to consider, i.e. also compensate the situation of the 800,000 Jews who were expelled from their native Arab nations or forced to flee as a result of state-sponsored anti-Jewish violence following the founding of the State of Israel.. The Arab League of Nations does not want to acept culpability for its role and neither does the UN or Palestinian terror cells that force Palestinians to flee. The revisionism simply blames Israel for any or all problems that have arisen in the Middle Easy and absolves the Arab League and Palestinian leaders of any blame. When Israel tried to build housing for the refugees in Gaza, Arab states led votes against it in U.N. resolutions, because absorption would change the status of the refugees. It as documented publiuc fact that Israel went on to give more money to the Palestinian refugees than all but three of the Arab states combined, prior to transferring responsibility of the territories to the Palestinian Authority in the mid-1990s. It is a fact Israel built hospitals and educational institutions for Palestinians in the territories. It is a fact Israel trained the Palestinian police force. So just what else should they have done? Today 22 Arab states dominate both the land and the wealth of the region. So just who is responsible only Israel? Tthe Arab propaganda war lays all blame for the Palestinian refugee problem on Israel and refusesto hold Arab states accountable for their own actions. Israel has accepted as much of the problem as it has been able to. When it did in Gaza, Hamas chose to blow up the schools, roads, hospitals it built for Gaza citizens. Instead of sympathizing and condoning Hamas and blaming Israel for the Palestinian situation its time to look squarely at Hamas and ask what does it do for its people other than blow up anything given to them by Israel and place them in the direct line of fire that Hamas deliberately incites. Hamas uses the Palestinian people no different than the Arab League did in the past. As well when Israel sent finances and assistance to Palestine Arafat used to take the aid and pocket it for himself. Its time someone point the finger at Palestinian government coruption. No Palestinian politicians and terrorists and the Arab League nation can't slide out of their moral culpability and blame it all on Israel. Edited July 18, 2014 by Rue Quote
Black Dog Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 The revisionism simply blames Israel for any or all problems that have arisen in the Middle Easy and absolves the Arab League and Palestinian leaders of any blame. When clearly the proper way is to blame the Arabs for everything and absolve Israel, amirite? Quote
Rue Posted July 18, 2014 Author Report Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) When clearly the proper way is to blame the Arabs for everything and absolve Israel, amirite? No. Completely wrong. In a conflict all sides bare moral culpability. Nothing in what I stated said Israel does not have a portion of the blame in the conflict it is in. It has never stated that either. It is in fact the Arab League of Nations, the Palestine terrorist groups and the PA that deny any culpability. I specifically stated: "Its time someone point the finger at Palestinian government coruption. No Palestinian politicians and terrorists and the Arab League nation can't slide out of their moral culpability and blame it all on Israel." Lol that was a very weak attempt at trying to infer upon me something I never stated or argued. Edited July 18, 2014 by Rue Quote
Black Dog Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) No that is as illogical as blaming it all on Israel. Israel has already accepted some of the blame. It can not simply accept all of it. Nothing in what I stated says blame anyone but Israel. This black and white all or nothing conclusion you came to is not from me. It comes from you. To my knowledge, you've never acknowledged any Israeli culpability for the current state of affairs. But hey, prove me wrong and tell me: what specific things has Israel done that you believe has contributed to the current situation? I won't even get into the garbage source you provided for your selected quotes above. The notion that half a million "squatters" (as your source calls the Arab population of the time) would simply pack up and leave voluntarily is farcical on its face, nor is it supported by actual historical studies. Edited July 18, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
Argus Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 One thing is certain - all the Zionists want to do is introduce death camps. They learned well. We did too: they should be tried and, if guilty, hanged. Can you tell me where these death camps are being built or are you just vomiting your Jew hate on the internet, as usual? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Its unlikely that ANYTHING the palestinians did would make any difference to how the Israelis treat them. Prior to the latest intifada the PLO had managed to almost completely eliminate attacks against Israel from the occupied territories. Not only did settlement building increase to record levels but Ariel "The Butcher" Sharon went to the temple mount with hundreds of armed troops to deliberately provoke them. Pretty dumb of them to fall for it then. As I recall, life was far, far better for Palestinians back then. They had more money and more jobs, being able to move back and forth relatively freely into Israel, and the Israeli economy setting up factories in Palestinian territory to take advantage of the cheaper labour. The Intifada made their lives much worse. And, I might add, it's way easier to mistreat a violent population which is always exploding bombs and firing rockets on you, than it is a more peaceful population. Martin Luther King knew that. . There is ZERO chance for any negotiated solution with Israel while LIkud is in power. Yet it's the Palestinians who put them in power and help keep them in power. Their attacks are perfect fodder for Likud's breast thumping and fearmongering. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Lol that was a very weak attempt at trying to infer upon me something I never stated or argued. They are always weak attempts. But, it's not like you had not done that to others around here. Right? Quote
jacee Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Get this crystal clear Jacee.I challenge your words. Your claiming that is a personal attack is nonsense. You continue to claim Israel should not have to be recognized as a Jewish state by Palestinians. That is what I challenge. In 1947 the proposal called for a JEWISH state and an Arab state. Since that date the Arab world not just the Palestinian Authority continue to refuse to recognize a Jewish state and that is because Mr. Abbas and the leaders at the most recent Arab League summit who rejected recognizing Israel as a Jewish state believe if they recognized Israel as a Jewish state, they could no longer demand as they do today that ANYONE WHO IS A NON JEW WHO CLAIMS TO BE A PALESTINIAN SHOULD HAVE AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP IF THEY WANT TO RETURN TO ISRAEL. You repeat yet again your denial of Jews being recognized as a state collective. That is what I challenge. You want to take that as a personal attack and swear go ahead.Those are your words and it is those words I challenge. Israelis have the right to be a Jewish nation. The Arab world and the Palestinian Authority and all the terror cells do not think so. They want people returned to Israel who are not Jewish to turn it into a Muslim state. That is a fact. You can ignore that and pretend its not part of the issue but its there for all to see on public domain and Dre pretending Abbas has not stated he wants the right of return for unlimited amounts of Palestinians as a condition to it not being Jewish is absurd. Its there for anyone to find on the web. As for your double standard if you think I am misquoting you just clarify it. Do you believe Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state? If that is a yes, well I will be pleased to acknowledge that is your position. You "challenge my words" but you don't even know what they were. Read my post you'll have your answers. Quote my post and respond to what it really says. . Edited July 18, 2014 by jacee Quote
-TSS- Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Many people seem to have very fixed and sharp opinions on the ME-conflict despite having little or no experience of having been there on the ground itself. On the other hand, you don't need to be an astronaut to be able to talk about astronomy. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 When clearly the proper way is to blame the Arabs for everything and absolve Israel, amirite? Israel, of course, has no responsibility for driving out over 700,000 Palestinians and destroying over 500 villages in the 1940's, when they were cleansing the State of Israel of as many non-Jews as possible. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
dre Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 Pretty dumb of them to fall for it then. As I recall, life was far, far better for Palestinians back then. They had more money and more jobs, being able to move back and forth relatively freely into Israel, and the Israeli economy setting up factories in Palestinian territory to take advantage of the cheaper labour. The Intifada made their lives much worse. And, I might add, it's way easier to mistreat a violent population which is always exploding bombs and firing rockets on you, than it is a more peaceful population. Martin Luther King knew that. . Yet it's the Palestinians who put them in power and help keep them in power. Their attacks are perfect fodder for Likud's breast thumping and fearmongering. Theyre screwed no matter what they do. Theyre destined to get herded into less land with less value. They ShOULD resist the occupation and conquest of their land though. The only faint chance they have of getting their own state is if the balance of power in the world changes, and the world decides to put the same kind of pressure on Israel to end the occupation that they put on SA to end aparthied. But for that to happen they need to keep the conflict front and center and keep resisting. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hudson Jones Posted July 19, 2014 Report Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) You "challenge my words" but you don't even know what they were. Read my post you'll have your answers. Quote my post and respond to what it really says. . From my experience, and I'm not saying it to try to insult him, but Rue does not have the focus and attention span to do that. Once he starts typing, he doesn't have the ability to not go off on a tangent and not misrepresent people with what he thinks the people have said. Edited July 19, 2014 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
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