kidnapped Israeli teens bodies found

eyeball · July 14, 2014

No, as "perhaps" is not good enough in such matters. Canada wouldn't accept such rocket attacks, and neither should Israel.

Canada's "Palestinians" to quote your term, wouldn't accept unmitigated dispossession or occupation either.

Am I to believe Americans would submit to the same treatment before resorting to whatever it took to win their freedom?

jacee · July 14, 2014

/ridiculous

Instead of reporting, maybe you should defend your ideas. Explain to us which land disputes are justifyed for rocket attacks, and which ones aren't. And how you came up with said criteria.

fyi I never said a thing.

That was bc's

/derail

talk to him

jacee · July 14, 2014

The UN ? Let's see what that debating club's Charter has to say...

Article 51

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security...

Between 2000 and May 2009, Palestinian attacks killed nearly 1,200 Israelis and injured close to 10,000, through suicide bombings, rocket and mortar attacks, shootings, stabbings, bombings, and vehicular assaults. In executing these attacks, Palestinian groups deliberately targeted Israeli civilians and population centers.[1] In defense, Israel applied a vigorous counter-terrorism strategy.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/international_law_series_the_right_to_self_defense0

old news

new day

jbg · July 14, 2014

Isael has chosen not to withdraw from illegally occupied territory, not to participate in a two state solution and move on with life ...

And on it goes ...

But if you ask the Arabs to define "illegally occupied territory" their honest answer will be the whole country. How do we know this? When Arafat derailed the 2000 peace talks he demanded a "right of return" for all Arab refugees and their descendants. The unleashing of this immigrant wave would have obliterated Israel's Jewish identity.

The option on the table is not "a two state solution and move on with life." It is a way station on the way to Jewish national annihilation.

Israel does not have a right to respond disproportionately.

Are random kidnappings, rocket attacks and suicide bomb attacks "proportionate"?

This is not a war, it is a slaughter. One side has about 200 dead and thousands wounded - mostly women and children. The other side has 2 wounded. The vast majority of them are civilians having nothing to do with the conflict.

Aversion of this slaughter would have been breathtakingly simple; don't rocket Israel. Don't kidnap Israelis. Stop the war against Israel. Edited July 14, 2014 by jbg

Topaz · July 14, 2014

ANY country that is attacked does have the tight to defend itself and I don't think anyone would disagree with that rule, and that also goes for Afghanistan and Iraq. There should be more on who and why the invader is and in this case BOTH are in the wrong and BOTH are killing children, such hatred!! The two leaders should be put in a ring and say, okay want to kill someone, kill each other! I bet if more leaders had to fight each other, there be more peace in the world. Imagine GW Bush vs Hussein!!!

Hal 9000 · July 14, 2014

I don't really care about "proportion", "fairness in war" or "equality" when it comes to Hamas. The palestinians start this every time and Israel reacts the same way every time, and the people of palestine know they are being used as shields. Hamas can save hundreds (maybe thousands)of palestinian civilians by simply stopping shooting rockets into Israel.

They don't want to negotiate any settlement that does not give them sole control of Jerusalem.

Nothing new is happening here.

Hudson Jones · July 14, 2014

See how Israel "warns" Gazans it is going to bomb their homes and imagine the terror.

Black Dog · July 14, 2014

Doing nothing vertainly hasn't made them stop.

Because the only choices are airstrikes or nothing at all?

Hamas are cowards who hide behind the backs of civilians while carrying out their operations. Anyone who disagrees with that statement is either very biased or is living in some cloud cuckoo-land.

Almost all of Gaza is a civilian area. It's very densely populated. And even if it were not, given the disparity of military resources between the two sides, I'm not sure why you think Hamas would want to engage ina toe-to-toe slugfest with Israel.

Rue · July 14, 2014

Blackdog you are wrong as can be yet again. In fact only part of Gaza is a civilian area. The rest is open space and it is precisely for that reason Hamas hides in the homes of civilians or places its ammunitions and operations in homes, hospitals, schools.mosques.

If it set up away from civilians it would have no cover.

Blackdog you know nothing about the geography of Gaza so stop pretending like you do.

If you had a clue you would know that there are but two solutions when dealing with Hamas. One is what the IAF is doing now, the other a ground invasion, either way, civilians will be placed in harms way by Hamas because Hamas will not fight the IDF one on one in the desert. It has no code of war. It will take down as many of its own people as it can deliberately to try win a public relations war which to it is far more important than the civilians it will kill.

I was in Gaza. You were not. I walked its streets. You did not. Stop talking about Gaza. You and the other armchair experts know little of how it came to be or what it now is.

I was there. I saw the roads being built, the green-houses, the mosques, community centres, schools, hospitals. Whose money do you think built them?

Here's a hint it did not come from the Arab League of Nations. It did not come from the Palestinian Authority. It came from the Israeli government donated to charities that were affiliated indirectly with Hamas at a time when Hamas denounced terrorism.

When a Syrian cell took over Hamas, it blew up all of that and lit its own citizens on fire who questioned what it was doing. It blew up its roads, schools, mosques,green houses. It placed rubber tires around its citizens and lit them on fire-their crime? They worked in Israel.

Gaza right now is an open sewer. Long before the decision of Hamas to blow it up to punish its people for collaborating with Israel,long before it did that, Nasser created it as an open air prison to prevent Palestinians from seeking refuge in Egypt. Nasser openly ridiculed Palestinians and sent his troops in and harassed Palestinians. He funded what he called Fedayeen, who were mostly Egyptians who would attack Israel from the Gaza.

Go read how Gaza was started. Don't pretend you know its people or its geography.

Its people did not ask to go to Gaza. They have been trapped there ever since and it was not Israel who put them there.

They die as we speak because of deliberate tactics of Hamas to have them die.

Get this as clear as can be. As we speak three quarters of Israel's population must rush to bomb shelters continuously. No other country in the world under such an attack would act as Israel does now.

Israel gives to warnings before each strike. This is why despite over 1,000 air strikes less than 200 civilians in such a densely populated part of Gaza where Hamas hides have died and not thousands.

One innocent civilian death is too much but Israel has no choice. It has zero choice. Hamas will not recognize the right of Jews to live in their own state next door. They have made it clear they will hold their own people as hostage and use them as civilian shields and never stop until Israeli is

destroyed. Remember that when you pose as someone who understands Gaza.

Hamas is not an army. It never was. It violates every international law there is. It could care less about the Geneva convention or any other law.

It is a group of cells, each run by a leader, each who believes it is legitimate to kill attack, kill and torture civilians whether they be Palestinian or Israeli.

Go find out what a body smells like after it melts into a pile of flesh with a rubber tire. Go find out how such bodies were dragged through the Gaza streets to warn people what happens when you question Hamas.

Rue · July 14, 2014

So that proves what exactly other than:

1- Israel does in fact warn before it attacks and people can see the amount of time it gives;

2-you ignore why the building is being bombed in the first place.

If that is your attempt at inciting hatred against Israel try again?

Your attempt to use emotion to detract from why the building is being blown up is a classic Hamas pr stunt.

That building was blown up because it was used to shoot missiles into Israel or has been identified as being a Hamas building storing ammunition and weapons.

Say Hudson you forgot this you tube clip;

www.youtube.com/watch?v-70Oqo_wmuGo

Edited July 14, 2014 by Rue

Black Dog · July 14, 2014

Blackdog you are wrong as can be yet again. In fact only part of Gaza is a civilian area. The rest is open space and it is precisely for that reason Hamas hides in the homes of civilians or places its ammunitions and operations in homes, hospitals, schools.mosques.

The entire Gaza strip is just 139 square miles, but it contains 1.8 million people. It'd be hard to find places that aren't populated. By contrast, the area usually targeted by Hamas rockets is one of the most sparsely populated regions of Israel. Together, these two facts help explain the disparity in death tolls.

If it set up away from civilians it would have no cover.

No shit sherlock.

Blackdog you know nothing about the geography of Gaza so stop pretending like you do.

It's funny you should say this because anyone with Google Earth can look and see for themselves that most of Gaza consists of human settlements with very little open space.

If you had a clue you would know that there are but two solutions when dealing with Hamas. One is what the IAF is doing now, the other a ground invasion, either way, civilians will be placed in harms way by Hamas because Hamas will not fight the IDF one on one in the desert. It has no code of war. It will take down as many of its own people as it can deliberately to try win a public relations war which to it is far more important than the civilians it will kill.

And Israel is happy to play along. Like I said: these guys need each other.

I was in Gaza. You were not. I walked its streets. You did not. Stop talking about Gaza. You and the other armchair experts know little of how it came to be or what it now is.

I was there. I saw the roads being built, the green-houses, the mosques, community centres, schools, hospitals. Whose money do you think built them?

Don't really believe you were there. Don't really care if you had been.

Israel gives to warnings before each strike. This is why despite over 1,000 air strikes less than 200 civilians in such a densely populated part of Gaza where Hamas hides have died and not thousands.

I guess by this logic, we should credit Hamas for only having wounded a few Israelis despite hundreds of rocket attacks.

One innocent civilian death is too much but Israel has no choice. It has zero choice. Hamas will not recognize the right of Jews to live in their own state next door. They have made it clear they will hold their own people as hostage and use them as civilian shields and never stop until Israeli is
destroyed.

I have a hard time believing that Israel's only choices are airstrikes or nothing. Airstrikes are just the soft option, one which minimizes Israeli casualties, but has little chance of permanently hindering Hamas's capabilities.

Remember that when you pose as someone who understands Gaza.

You'd think if you understood the place so well, you'd understand that Israel's tactics are enormously beneficial to Hamas.

Big Guy · July 14, 2014

...

They die as we speak because of deliberate tactics of Hamas to have them die.

....

If Hamas wants the Israelis to kill Palestinian civilians then why do the Israelis play into Hamas hands and kill Palestinian civilians?

Are the Israelis not doing what you say Hamas wants them to do?

Does that make sense to you?

Argus · July 14, 2014

Because the only choices are airstrikes or nothing at all?

What would you suggest? People carry umbrellas wherever they go?

Almost all of Gaza is a civilian area. It's very densely populated. And even if it were not, given the disparity of military resources between the two sides, I'm not sure why you think Hamas would want to engage ina toe-to-toe slugfest with Israel.

What's the downside? That a bunch of Palestinians get killed? You honestly think Hamas would find that a downside? Besides, the Palestinians don't blame Hamas for this, they blame the Jews. The more air strikes go off in Palestine the more Palestinians shout their praise for Hamas every time it sends up rockets.

Argus · July 14, 2014

If Hamas wants the Israelis to kill Palestinian civilians then why do the Israelis play into Hamas hands and kill Palestinian civilians?

Because domestic politics and anger would not allow them to do nothing. When you attack any nation, that nation's government has to respond, even ours would, or it would soon not be the government.

iolo · July 14, 2014

Nazis murder people and delight in it, because they are racists, and these Nazis are subsidised by the Yanks. I dread what may be done to decent Jewish people later as a result of this vomitous filth.

Big Guy · July 14, 2014

Lately, Israel has warned Hamas to clear out of Northern Gaza because it is going to be bombed. The argument is that if those Palestinians stay there then they deserve to be killed. Interesting logic.

Why does Israel just not warn everybody to clear out of Gaza. Anyone still there would then deserve to be killed. All the Palestinians clear out of Gaza.

Then Israel could establish settlements there with no opposition.

What a simple solution - for Israel.

Black Dog · July 14, 2014

What would you suggest? People carry umbrellas wherever they go?

Dunno. They could invade and reoccupy the area and root out Hamas that way. Would result in a lot of dead Israelis, though. Compared to that, what's a few rockets?

What's the downside? That a bunch of Palestinians get killed? You honestly think Hamas would find that a downside?

Have you been reading my posts at all?

Besides, the Palestinians don't blame Hamas for this, they blame the Jews. The more air strikes go off in Palestine the more Palestinians shout their praise for Hamas every time it sends up rockets.

Given that, perhaps it would be a good idea for the big brains in Israel to think of a better solution than the one they keep going with. It's pretty clear in the calculus that the cycle of provocation/response is an acceptable one for Israel. Keep the Palestinians behind the wall, bomb them when they get unruly. Rinse. Repeat.

Big Guy · July 14, 2014

Because domestic politics and anger would not allow them to do nothing. When you attack any nation, that nation's government has to respond, even ours would, or it would soon not be the government.

So the Israeli government is assisting Hamas in its goals so that it can stay in power?

AngusThermopyle · July 14, 2014

Good video of the Israeli practise of using the "knock on the door" mortar technique. Couple that with the practise of dropping leaflets and actually phoning the residents to warn them of an impending strike and you have something that is unprecedented. Any reasonable person can see that they are going way above and beyond to give warnings. they should be commended not condemned. It would be nice if Hamas would also give prior warning of their strikes wouldn't it? What! Not going to happen? Well that says it all right there.

Others points that should be addressed. Nazi's? Really? Grow up, you just destroyed any shred of credibility you never had with that juvenile and stupid remark.

Big Guy, maybe they don't want what you state. Also you should consider that they target the homes and vehicles of high ranking Hamas officials. They don't just indiscriminately target any old house. So yes, if these people decide they'll be human shields for Hamas then indeed they deserve what they get. If you have plenty of warning and decide you are going to remain then yes, you're basically asking for what you get.

As for the point made earlier that its unfair that Israel kicks Hamas ass, are you serious? Come on man, this is an armed conflict, nothing is ever fair about such events. Do you think if Hamas could gain the advantage they'd say "hold on fellas, this doesn't look fair, lets give them a hand killing us". Fair has nothing to do with this and is only a factor in the mind of a child.

marcus · July 14, 2014

Perhaps if Hamas gives out flyers that they will fire homemade rockets into Israel, it will make what they're doing okay.

Over 170 Palestinians have been killed. Majority civilians. Israel is targeting homes of family of Hamas members as a collective punishment. Israel is attacking everything Hamas (and more). Since Hamas is the authority in Gaza, then hospitals, administration offices, and everything run by Hamas is a target. This is ridiculous.

Edited July 14, 2014 by marcus

AngusThermopyle · July 14, 2014

Hospitals, schools, admin are targets because Hamas uses them to launch rockets. You know, that time honoured tradition of Hamas using civilians as shields in order to attack Israel. Do you think there could be a causal effect at play here? If you don't mind I'd like to see a credible cite for the 170 figure you guys are so casually throwing around here. This weekend The National Post reported no more than approx. one hundred deaths, so I really would like to see where this 170 figure comes from. You also realize that Hamas has been using photographs from Syria and claiming they are there own casualties right? Of course you do, being all informed and all that stuff like you are. This also happens to be another time honoured Hamas practise, fake or misleading photos designed to drum up outrage and anger. Yeah, those Hamas dudes are a real stand up bunch alright.

Oh yeah, it should be pointed out that they are not using homemade rockets as you claim. They have been getting substantial shipments of rockets that are far from being homemade as you claim. Nice attempt at minimizing the role Hamas plays in all this. Actually not, pretty feeble in fact. Try again though, don't give up.

Edited July 14, 2014 by AngusThermopyle

marcus · July 14, 2014

Many keep pointing to the three kidnapped and killed settler children as the start of this conflict. This is wrong. 5 Palestinian children were killed by Israeli soldiers in the previous 4 weeks.