ISIS Declares Islamic State.

[dre]

If that is how you allocate blame, then maybe ISIS is 100% the fault of the Black Hand. Since if they never tried to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914, then WW1 would have never happened so the Ottoman empire would not have fallen and Iraq would not have existed to get invaded by George Bush.

The difference here is that the rise of AQ in Iraq was the DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE RESULT of the removal of Saddams regime. I can guarantee you that ISIS would not be sacking Sunni towns and cities in Iraq if the baathists had been left in power. Its just a fact. The emergence of ISIS is classic "blowback" from that decision. And its the exact reason that Bush 1 didnt take out Saddam after GW1. They knew that they would create a power vacuum that will be filled by even worse guys than Hussein.

Edited September 9, 2014 by dre

[-1=e^ipi]

The difference here is that the rise of AQ in Iraq was the DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE RESULT of the removal of Saddams regime. I can guarantee you that ISIS would not be sacking Sunni towns and cities in Iraq if the baathists had been left in power. Its just a fact. The emergence of ISIS is classic "blowback" from that decision. And its the exact reason that Bush 1 didnt take out Saddam after GW1. They knew that they would create a power vacuum that will be filled by even worse guys than Hussein.

The difference here is that the creation of Iraq DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE RESULT of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire after WW2. I can guarantee you that ISIS would not be sacking Sunni towns and cities in Iraq if Iraq did not exist and the Ottoman Empire was still around. Its just a fact. The emergence of ISIS is classic "blowback" from that decision.

See what I did there?

[bush_cheney2004]

The same historical logicians claimed that the CIA put Saddam in power and sustained his regime through a war with Iran. So now they are even !

[Hudson Jones]

The difference here is that the creation of Iraq DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE RESULT of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire after WW2. I can guarantee you that ISIS would not be sacking Sunni towns and cities in Iraq if Iraq did not exist and the Ottoman Empire was still around. Its just a fact. The emergence of ISIS is classic "blowback" from that decision.

See what I did there?

Yes. You tried to make a point and failed.

The point here is that U.S. and other Western countries, but especially U.S., forcefully remove dictators or support the opposition groups to bring down the dictator (who they have probably supported in the past), then claim that they're bringing democracy, joy, happiness, security, la di da, etc., But then they make an already shitty place and even shittier and more unstable place.

Look at: Iraq, Libya and Syria for their most recent work.

[-1=e^ipi]

Yes. You tried to make a point and failed.

The point here is that U.S. and other Western countries, but especially U.S., forcefully remove dictators or support the opposition groups to bring down the dictator (who they have probably supported in the past), then claim that they're bringing democracy, joy, happiness, security, la di da, etc., But then they make an already shitty place and even shittier and more unstable place.

Look at: Iraq, Libya and Syria for their most recent work.

Read the context. I was refuting Dre's absurd position where basically 100% of the blame lies on Bush/Blair for their invasion of Iraq. It was Obama/Cameron that decided to fund the Syrian 'rebels' in order to wage a proxy war against Russia.

[Rue]

-1 you are dead on once again. I defer to your comments entirely,

[Rue]

Dre ISIS did not magically appear. Your brain clearly can not get it. ISIS is a temporary constellation or alliance of a loose network of terror cells fighting in Syria and in Iraq. It has come about temporarily for now because Erdogan, Cameron,and Barry Hussein Obama decided to giv e it some equipment, training on how to use that equipment, then point it in the direction of Syria.

Its splinter cells already existed. They didn't come into existence,-they already existed.All ISIS is, is a loose knit group of many terror cells each with their own leader.

Can your brain be any more rigid? For Gad's same take son .........POOOOOOOOOOF. Dre, the matter in your brain is grey not brown. You are confusing your brain matter with your thoughts.POOOOOOOOOOOF Zap Zow Kabam.

Its like being in a fight on the Batman t.v. show. I now understand why in such fights the floor was always slanted.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Rue

[dre]

Dre ISIS did not magically appear. Your brain clearly can not get it. ISIS is a temporary constellation or alliance of a loose network of terror cells fighting in Syria and in Iraq. It has come about temporarily for now because Erdogan, Cameron,and Barry Hussein Obama decided to giv e it some equipment, training on how to use that equipment, then point it in the direction of Syria.

Its splinter cells already existed. They didn't come into existence,-they already existed.All ISIS is, is a loose knit group of many terror cells each with their own leader.

Can your brain be any more rigid? For Gad's same take son .........POOOOOOOOOOF. Dre, the matter in your brain is grey not brown. You are confusing your brain matter with your thoughts.POOOOOOOOOOOF Zap Zow Kabam.

Its like being in a fight on the Batman t.v. show. I now understand why in such fights the floor was always slanted.

You keep saying that but you are just flat out wrong. ISIS is Alqeada in Iraq. They started in Iraq not Syria, and they arent a temporary group, they have been around for ten years, under a different name. They started as "Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn" before Obama was even elected, and were called "Alqeada in Iraq" by westerners.

This group did not appear when it decided to enter the Syrian civil war, and it is not just a loosely affiliated collection of terror cells. It was ISI ( Islamic State of Iraq) in Iraq, branded when Sunni insurgent groups joined to create Mujahideen Shura Council. Its a fairly well organized Sunni movement with the goal of establishing a Sunni Islamic state. The group has now set its sights on Syria and added another S to their name, thats all.

This isnt about "shades of grey", its about you making silly statements that are just verfiably and objectively wrong, in order to pin the ills of the world on your favorite political boogeyman.

Edited September 10, 2014 by dre

[cybercoma]

ISIS is a temporary constellation or alliance of a loose network of terror cells

For being just a temporary group of a loose network, they appear to be wielding an awful lot of power and seem to be pretty organized.

[dre]

Read the context. I was refuting Dre's absurd position where basically 100% of the blame lies on Bush/Blair for their invasion of Iraq. It was Obama/Cameron that decided to fund the Syrian 'rebels' in order to wage a proxy war against Russia.

I never used the term 100% and I didnt even mention Bush or Blair by name. Never the less the power vacuum and the dispossession of Sunni political power are the reason we have ISIS today. Theres more than the invasion to blame for that... The Maliki government certainly deserves their fair share as well. Did Obamas policies on Syria make the problem worse, or make the group more powerfull? Quite possibly! But I wasnt arguing that point.

I was arguing some silly claim by another MLW member that Isis was created by the policies of Obama. Not only is this objectively false, but its nonsense so easily vanquished by even a tiny bit of research that it consitutes a "school boy laugher".

As for your claim that the events of WW2 and the end of the Ottoman empire are comparable in their "directness" or their "immediacy"... 70 Years is not immediate. You are right that events in history make the world what it is today, and if you want to take that to the extreme I guess you could claim ISIS was created by the BIG BANG. Thats not a valid analogy in any way though for the claims I made. The rise of AQ in Iraq, and its transition to ISI and then later ISIS is a direct and predictable result of turning over Iraq to the Shias, in every sense that a nail being driven home is the direct result of it being struck with a hammer.

[-1=e^ipi]

Never the less the power vacuum and the dispossession of Sunni political power are the reason we have ISIS today.

Why not say 'one of the reasons' instead of 'the reason'? Forgive me if I interpret this type of wording to mean that you are implying that the vast majority of the blame for the existence of ISIS lies with the invasion of Iraq.

[Rue]

Oy some days its painful.Lt's try again. The groups that now make up ISIS were already in existence. They had been there for years. No one said they were temporary, Their formation now as an alliance through ISIS or ISIL is.

You arm chair security geniuses need to read. Terrorist groups mutate continually in shape and structure. They grow in size and extent of network depending on how many cells join together, then they devolve, as cells break off.

No ISIS is not a permanent group. It has no one leader. It has no head office you geniuses. Your pee brains need to see it in black and white definitions. Its not. Its size, its intent, its direction constantly is changing.

Today its ISIL, tomorrow it could break down into other forms, or it could get even bigger. Your brain need to get a grasp on that and not other organs you seem to be preoccupied with as evidenced in what you are producing.

The PLO was the same thing-an umbrella organization of loosely knit terror cells each with their own leader. The Western press couldnot keep up with the number of cells coming in then leaving so they created Arafat as the leader-the go to guy and Arafat embraced his sudden PR image as leader of the PLO but the man was only one of many cell leaders. On any given day he had to juggle coalitions. He feared his own people killing him.

He never had full control of the PLO any more than Abbas has of the Palstinian Authority today or whoever the self appointed leaders of Hamas claim they are.

Now if that still can not be absorbed in your pee brains so be it but I never said Al Quaeda for example was temporary but I do say Al Quaeda mutates and it mutated into ISIS and will when it feels it necessary pull out and its ever changing.

You geniuses just do not get it. The way terror cells work is they come together over a mutual enemy-and their coalitions last as long as they have a mutual enemy or some other self interest does not come about to cause them to split.

These terror cells operate in a manner where each cell may not even know what the other cells are doing.

In Algeria each cell was given only an order pertaining to what it had to do. It never knew what other cells were up to so if the cell was captured it could not be tortured into revealing the plans of the other cells.

This still holds true. Its an ancient method of guerilla war the Middle East has used for centuries.

Today's terror cells are a mutation of the tribes run by war lords. Each tribe had a Chieftain. Today's ally was tomorrow's enemy.

Cyber how the hell do you even know how ISIS is structured when most of its members do not know who is in charge? Hmmmm?

They seem structured to you do they? Right. You have not a clue who their leaders are. What you think they sit around at conference meetings discussing the day's agenda? Yah they have MBA's and flow charts.

Now we get back to the genius Dre who talks in absolutes and tries to misrepresent statements. Obama's policies led directly to the formation of what is now called ISIS or ISIL. That is a fact no one but Dre denies at this point,

The training of Sunni extremists from not just Iraq, but Somalia, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and other Sunni extremist producing Arab League nations is a fact. To deny it is absolutely idiotic.

The Sunni extremist groups were brought together in Turkey and told they would get indirect assistance from the US through Turkey.

This was a deliberate policy Obama made siding with Erdogan who he considers his most valuable ally in the Middle East next to Morsi who was of course deposed.

Obama assisted the origins of ISIS, a loose knit group of Muslim Brotherhood, Al Quaeda and other Sunni extremists dispose of Ghaddfi.He sent his ambassador to Libya as the next Lawrence of Arabia right down to the blonde hair, walking with young Arabs on the street by himself with no guards, glad handling with Muslim extremists. When those same alleged allies caught him engaging in gay behaviour they violently sodomized him and literally the crowds swarmed him and ripped him to shreds with their bare hands pulling out his colon,entrails,liver, kidney, while Obama watched by satellite and said do nothing, say nothing the US won't like the fact we sent an openly gay man to an extremist Sunni country let alone find out we supported the people who killed him because he was gay,

Even after that serious misjudgement as to who he was in alliance with Obama continued with these Sunni extremist cells.

Now he is on t.v. saying, well he is going to pursue ISIS the very group he funded and trained in Syria as well as Iraq and he's going to assist in the training of "more moderate" Sunnis whatever that means.

This is the same Obama who openly refused to assist the non Sunni extremist opposition in Syria and allowed Putin to humiliate him by siding with Assad and giggling together at John Kerry's inept behaviour.

Here is Putin just yesterday in Iran laughing as Obama's very allies he thought would defeat Assad, Hezbollah and Iran namely his buddies in ISIS he now has to turn on not just in Iraq but Syria.

Obama is a fool. He was warned by Israeli, German, and Egyptian intelligence to stop sucking up to the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Al Quaeda, Hamas, because they would turn on him.Oh no. Not Obama. He and John Kerry and his Ambassador to Libya, they actually thought these groups and the Muslim Brotherhood would embrace them.

Now Obama has to take out the very group he wanted to fight Assad, Iran, Hezbollah, and Putin and the Iranian leaders are pissing themselves laughing as he no has to turn on their very enemy.

How absurd is it. His air force now is assisting his actual enemy Iran and Hebzollah in Iraq and soon Syria.

Is even more absurd because Putin just two days ago said, don't worry about Obama's lack of direction, Russia will crush ISIS in 2 days or so if he has to.

This about face flippity flop by Obama is an insult to Americans who knew the US should have supported Sunni opposition in both Iraq and Syria but sat by and did nothing because of Obama foreign policy that said, do nothing.

Had he supported the original Sunni opposition in Syria, had he showed a semblance of testosterone in Iraq and confronted the Shiite Malaki who was unfairly treating Sunnis there, the group you now call ISIS would never have evolved to what it is now.

He sat silent because Erdogan and Morsi told him to because at the time both were interested in keeping Iran happy. Erdogan started off as Assad's best friend, only to turn on him. At one point the US was openly embracing Assad as an ally. They only turned on him once Erdogan and Morsis did.

Obama did not initiate policy, he allowed himself instead to follow the initiatives of Morsi and Erdogan.

Yes ISIS continually changes and in that sense each day its shape is temporary or constantly changing.

The structure it had when it overthrough Ghaddafi or when it moved into Mali and found itself fighting with French forces over Timbuktou or its attacks in Dahomey, Senegal, NIgeria, Chad, or its cells in Tunisia, Algeria, are all different. They have some things in common and there is an exchange of Sunni militants but they all do their own thing just as the terror cells do in Somalia.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

-1 Dre's reasoning is simple. If ISIS exists its not because Turkey and the US financed it-its because these people hate the US.

In his fantasy world, its not possible any Muslim terrorist will get into bed with Turkey and the US, then turn on both.

In his world Muslim terrorists are honourable people. They are not even terrorist. They are just freedom fighters.

In his world they are not self serving-they are heroes. Dre wants to get on a horse and ride into the sunset with them,

The problem is he' s no Geronimo and this is not Lawrence of Arabia. He has no idea what a horse is and they ride tanks now.

Dre should stick to his video game world. The reality of the desert seems to sand blast his ability to conceptualize that

there is no organized romantic movement of justice, just cells of anarchy.

[GostHacked]

Apparently Bush knew this would happen too.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/11/bush-in-2007-delivered-eerily-accurate-warning-about-iraq-unrest/

But the lines were written by a speech writer. I doubt Bush would have been able to string those lines of thought together in an intelligent fashion otherwise.

Also the comment system on Foxnews is just terrible. Try reading it without it scrolling all over the place.

[Big Guy]

Saw Obama's speech last night. Time for Canada to remove ourselves from this quagmire created by the USA.

Let the Arabs fight it out, wait until there is a winner and then deal with the winner. There are Arab nations in the area sitting on $multi-billions and ground troops who are sitting back and waiting for the West to jump in again... and again and again. If Canada gets sucked into this trap again then we do need our heads examined.

The USA appears ready to again follow the flag and charge into the teeth of the enemy to "liberate" those who do not want to be liberated.

I suggest they be allowed to do this without being encumbered by an understanding of history and the sense of conscience of Canadians who want nothing to do with American wars.

[cybercoma]

Oy some days its painful.Lt's try again. The groups that now make up ISIS were already in existence. They had been there for years. No one said they were temporary, Their formation now as an alliance through ISIS or ISIL is.

You arm chair security geniuses need to read. Terrorist groups mutate continually in shape and structure. They grow in size and extent of network depending on how many cells join together, then they devolve, as cells break off.

No ISIS is not a permanent group. It has no one leader. It has no head office you geniuses. Your pee brains need to see it in black and white definitions. Its not. Its size, its intent, its direction constantly is changing.

Today its ISIL, tomorrow it could break down into other forms, or it could get even bigger. Your brain need to get a grasp on that and not other organs you seem to be preoccupied with as evidenced in what you are producing.

The PLO was the same thing-an umbrella organization of loosely knit terror cells each with their own leader. The Western press couldnot keep up with the number of cells coming in then leaving so they created Arafat as the leader-the go to guy and Arafat embraced his sudden PR image as leader of the PLO but the man was only one of many cell leaders. On any given day he had to juggle coalitions. He feared his own people killing him.

He never had full control of the PLO any more than Abbas has of the Palstinian Authority today or whoever the self appointed leaders of Hamas claim they are.

Now if that still can not be absorbed in your pee brains so be it but I never said Al Quaeda for example was temporary but I do say Al Quaeda mutates and it mutated into ISIS and will when it feels it necessary pull out and its ever changing.

You geniuses just do not get it. The way terror cells work is they come together over a mutual enemy-and their coalitions last as long as they have a mutual enemy or some other self interest does not come about to cause them to split.

These terror cells operate in a manner where each cell may not even know what the other cells are doing.

In Algeria each cell was given only an order pertaining to what it had to do. It never knew what other cells were up to so if the cell was captured it could not be tortured into revealing the plans of the other cells.

This still holds true. Its an ancient method of guerilla war the Middle East has used for centuries.

Today's terror cells are a mutation of the tribes run by war lords. Each tribe had a Chieftain. Today's ally was tomorrow's enemy.

Cyber how the hell do you even know how ISIS is structured when most of its members do not know who is in charge? Hmmmm?

They seem structured to you do they? Right. You have not a clue who their leaders are. What you think they sit around at conference meetings discussing the day's agenda? Yah they have MBA's and flow charts.

Now we get back to the genius Dre who talks in absolutes and tries to misrepresent statements. Obama's policies led directly to the formation of what is now called ISIS or ISIL. That is a fact no one but Dre denies at this point,

The training of Sunni extremists from not just Iraq, but Somalia, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and other Sunni extremist producing Arab League nations is a fact. To deny it is absolutely idiotic.

The Sunni extremist groups were brought together in Turkey and told they would get indirect assistance from the US through Turkey.

This was a deliberate policy Obama made siding with Erdogan who he considers his most valuable ally in the Middle East next to Morsi who was of course deposed.

Obama assisted the origins of ISIS, a loose knit group of Muslim Brotherhood, Al Quaeda and other Sunni extremists dispose of Ghaddfi.He sent his ambassador to Libya as the next Lawrence of Arabia right down to the blonde hair, walking with young Arabs on the street by himself with no guards, glad handling with Muslim extremists. When those same alleged allies caught him engaging in gay behaviour they violently sodomized him and literally the crowds swarmed him and ripped him to shreds with their bare hands pulling out his colon,entrails,liver, kidney, while Obama watched by satellite and said do nothing, say nothing the US won't like the fact we sent an openly gay man to an extremist Sunni country let alone find out we supported the people who killed him because he was gay,

Even after that serious misjudgement as to who he was in alliance with Obama continued with these Sunni extremist cells.

Now he is on t.v. saying, well he is going to pursue ISIS the very group he funded and trained in Syria as well as Iraq and he's going to assist in the training of "more moderate" Sunnis whatever that means.

This is the same Obama who openly refused to assist the non Sunni extremist opposition in Syria and allowed Putin to humiliate him by siding with Assad and giggling together at John Kerry's inept behaviour.

Here is Putin just yesterday in Iran laughing as Obama's very allies he thought would defeat Assad, Hezbollah and Iran namely his buddies in ISIS he now has to turn on not just in Iraq but Syria.

Obama is a fool. He was warned by Israeli, German, and Egyptian intelligence to stop sucking up to the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Al Quaeda, Hamas, because they would turn on him.Oh no. Not Obama. He and John Kerry and his Ambassador to Libya, they actually thought these groups and the Muslim Brotherhood would embrace them.

Now Obama has to take out the very group he wanted to fight Assad, Iran, Hezbollah, and Putin and the Iranian leaders are pissing themselves laughing as he no has to turn on their very enemy.

How absurd is it. His air force now is assisting his actual enemy Iran and Hebzollah in Iraq and soon Syria.

Is even more absurd because Putin just two days ago said, don't worry about Obama's lack of direction, Russia will crush ISIS in 2 days or so if he has to.

This about face flippity flop by Obama is an insult to Americans who knew the US should have supported Sunni opposition in both Iraq and Syria but sat by and did nothing because of Obama foreign policy that said, do nothing.

Had he supported the original Sunni opposition in Syria, had he showed a semblance of testosterone in Iraq and confronted the Shiite Malaki who was unfairly treating Sunnis there, the group you now call ISIS would never have evolved to what it is now.

He sat silent because Erdogan and Morsi told him to because at the time both were interested in keeping Iran happy. Erdogan started off as Assad's best friend, only to turn on him. At one point the US was openly embracing Assad as an ally. They only turned on him once Erdogan and Morsis did.

Obama did not initiate policy, he allowed himself instead to follow the initiatives of Morsi and Erdogan.

Yes ISIS continually changes and in that sense each day its shape is temporary or constantly changing.

The structure it had when it overthrough Ghaddafi or when it moved into Mali and found itself fighting with French forces over Timbuktou or its attacks in Dahomey, Senegal, NIgeria, Chad, or its cells in Tunisia, Algeria, are all different. They have some things in common and there is an exchange of Sunni militants but they all do their own thing just as the terror cells do in Somalia.

I think I saw my handle in there, but if you think I'm going to read a 1300 word mountain of incoherent gibberish, you're out of your mind. If you can't say it concisely it's not worth saying.

[Rue]

Atta boy Cyber. Keep reminding me you have the attention span of a gnat and are only interested in yourself.

Oh ho on Cyber tax your brain and read below from: http://www.sitepoint.com/what-the-heck-happened-to-our-attention-spans/

"The addictive nature of web browsing can leave you with an attention span of nine seconds – the same as a goldfish,” said the BBC in 2002. “Our attention span gets affected by the way we do things,” Ted Selker, from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology told the British news agency. “If we spend our time flitting from one thing to another on the web, we can get into a habit of not concentrating.” Boy was he right.

No time has it been more evident that our attention spans have been severely diminished than on today’s web. Twitter, for example, asks us to reduce our thoughts to just 140 characters, while 12seconts.tv asks us to do that same in just twelve seconds. And the average length of the 12 billion videos US Internet users consumed via the web in May? Just 2.7 minutes. Clearly, our attention on the web is fleeting."

Wait Cyber I know that may have taxed you but read some more..

In an article, titled ‘Kids, Tech and Those Shrinking Attention Spans’ by Diana Graber, posted on www.huffingtonpost.com, she wrote:

“We hear it all the time — increased exposure to technology is rewiring our kids’ brains, making it tougher to reach and teach them. A Pew Internet survey of nearly 2,500 teachers finds that 87% believe new technologies are creating an “easily distracted generation with short attention spans” and 64% say today’s digital technologies “do more to distract students than to help them academically.”

So what can you do Cyber to help you with that short attention span? I am glad you asked because I am here for you....and here are 5 basic tips from http://higherpayingskills.com/2011/12/improve-concentration-attention-span/#ixzz3D1zMaijN:

1) Admit Your Problem begins and ends with you

2) Unplug (that means turn off your cell phone, computer and t.v. and try read a book)

3)Practice Concentrating Despite Distractions (try meditation or focusing on one thing and seperating it from the noise around it

4)Build Up Your Mental Endurance (that might be difficult given what you are working with-with bursts of concentration followed by spans of “thoughtless” recovery (the thoughtless rrecovery you'll be a natural at)

5)Make Your Learning Active Don’t just absorb information – digest it! (or more simply put... eat it!)

:

Edited September 11, 2014 by Rue

[marcus]

Atta boy Cyber. Keep reminding me you have the attention span of a gnat and are only interested in yourself.

I love how you project yourself with comments about others.

Edited September 11, 2014 by marcus

[dre]

-1 Dre's reasoning is simple. If ISIS exists its not because Turkey and the US financed it-its because these people hate the US.

Some of the usual confused bleating and wretching in there... But Ill respond to this bit.

First of all you just flat out cant read apparently. I never said anything about these people hating the US. My reasoning is simply that this groups origins pre-date Obamas presidency by about 5 years.

This group is not a temporary collection of affiliates with no leader as you claim. Thats objectively false. This group has existed for almost ten years... It was first known as the Mujahideen Shura Council, they set their sites on creating a Sunni Caliphate in Iraq and then under the leadership of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi rebranded themselves as ISI. Shortly after the sectarian violence in Syria began the group started planning to expand into Syria, and on April 8 2013 Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi officially announce both the groups expansion into Syria, and that the group would now be known as ISIL.

He also announced that ISI had already been operating in Syria since the beginning of the conflict there as Jabhat al-Nusra, and announced that groups official status as part of ISIL.

This is the SAME group thats been around since about 2004, with the SAME leader, and the SAME core goal. The only difference is they have expanded into Syria and added an L to the end of their name.

So the problem with your silly statement that "ISIS is a direct result of Obamas policies" is that Obama was a senator in Illinois when this group was born. And the other obvious problem with your various 5000 word posts of confused rambling (paragraphs missing in action! facts nowhere to be found!) is your mischaracterization of the nature of this group completely and the "temporary loose collection" garbage. ISIL actually have a relatively strong central management and coherent, well defined goals.

Edited September 11, 2014 by dre

[cybercoma]

Atta boy Cyber. Keep reminding me you have the attention span of a gnat and are only interested in yourself.

Believe me. My attention span is fine. You just don't deserve my time that it would take to read through such a lengthy post.

[Hudson Jones]

Let the Arabs fight it out, wait until there is a winner and then deal with the winner. There are Arab nations in the area sitting on $multi-billions and ground troops who are sitting back and waiting for the West to jump in again

But there are lots of weapons sitting there unused and lots more weapons ready to be bought to replace them. The military industrial complex does not like your reasoning.

[GostHacked]

Atta boy Cyber. Keep reminding me you have the attention span of a gnat and are only interested in yourself.

I believe his attention span is fine. It's more of the content and how it's delivered that may cause someone to tune out. One can only read so much 'rambling'. Sometimes, less is more.

[jbg]

Im sure you shake your fist at Mr Obama every time a raindrop hits you. Partisan hackery can be fun. But ISIS started in Iraq under the AQ banner, not in Syria, and they are the direct result of the decision to overthrow the baathists, and the sectarian war in Iraq that followed.

Fortunately for the U.S. the brand of Islam to which Obama apparently subscribes is softer than that of ISIS. It is derived from the Indonesia of his upbringing. He still does not like the U.S. or West.

[Bob Macadoo]

Fortunately for the U.S. the brand of Islam to which Obama apparently subscribes is softer than that of ISIS. It is derived from the Indonesia of his upbringing. He still does not like the U.S. or West.

"You're Fired."

[jacee]

I'm glad to hear Canadian Muslims' views:

http://www.chch.com/hamilton-muslims-react-911-remembrance/

the Muslim Council of Greater Hamilton ... a community of roughly 30-thousand Muslims.

Raza Khan, Muslin Council of Greater Hamilton: We want our Canadian and Hamilton neighbours to know that Muslims, theres no need ot fear Muslims, we go to Tim Hortons like all of you, we contribute to society like everybody, we pay taxes, were law-abiding, very peaceful people.

Not only is the Muslim Council stepping up and voicing its opposition to ISIS, but its also calling on the federal government to take action, beginning right here in Hamilton.

Raza Khan: Were looking for support, resources and tools from the Canadian government to allow us to engage our youth so that they can choose peaceful dialogue and civic engagement in the community rather than any alternatives.