dre Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Funded by who? There's no oil in those regions, or not much, so guaranteed they're going to stir the point with Kurdistan, Iran/Iraq etc. Lots of beheadings too. What you suggest is the easy way out, not necessarily a happy ending. We dont need an easy way out. We are ALREADY out, and just need to stay there, and not do anything stupid that would make the problem worse. The Iraqi Shia, and Kurds, and the Iranians have the their own ability to stop ISIS from making gains in those respective areas. Edited September 4, 2014 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 I was watching the CNN coverage of this latest fiasco. The question discussed was how many Americans or Brits or Canadians are currently there fighting for ISIS. One person started throwing around numbers and then was challenged as to the source of those figures. There was no real source. He "heard" it. I have no doubt that there are Canadian citizens fighting on the side of ISIS as there are Canadian citizens who have gone back to Iraq and are fighting for the current government. I also do not doubt there are Canadians in Ukraine on both sides of that conflict as well as in Syria, Somalia, Libya et al. Young people are impressionable and sometimes have an epiphany of nationalism especially if they feel disenfranchised in Canada. The world is a small place and a young person can be watching the 6 o clock evening news in Brantford on Monday and be on the front lines in Syria by Wednesday. Unfortunately, the powers are spending their time and our money trying to track down who they are instead of trying to find out why they are going. I think the bulk of their efforts should be in making sure they can't come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 We dont need an easy way out. We are ALREADY out, and just need to stay there, and not do anything stupid that would make the problem worse. The Iraqi Shia, and Kurds, and the Iranians have the their own ability to stop ISIS from making gains in those respective areas. Why would we not want to use this as live fire training for our air forces? NATO shells out a lot of money to come to Cold Lake for live firing training. Why not do it over there? It's a win-win. Ditto with NATO countries special forces. You can't buy that kind of training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Young people are impressionable and sometimes have an epiphany of nationalism especially if they feel disenfranchised in Canada. For the last time, ISIS and members of other Islamist groups are anti-nationalists, not nationalists. Also, maybe it would help if you actually listen to what the ISIS fighters are saying is the justification for their actions, rather than just insert your politically correct BS expectation of what you think their justification is. http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/04/world/meast/isis-inside-look/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 The goal of the Islamic State is to take over the world. They want world domination, and they want everyone to live under Sharia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think the bulk of their efforts should be in making sure they can't come back. If we do not know why they left how can we make sure they do not come back. Maybe if we knew why they left we could stop the flow from this end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 For the last time, ISIS and members of other Islamist groups are anti-nationalists, not nationalists. Also, maybe it would help if you actually listen to what the ISIS fighters are saying is the justification for their actions, rather than just insert your politically correct BS expectation of what you think their justification is. http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/04/world/meast/isis-inside-look/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 The goal of the Islamic State is to take over the world. They want world domination, and they want everyone to live under Sharia. I have little trust in someone producing a marketing video purporting to represent the views of whoever. If you are prepared the eat the BS that you are being fed than that is your option. I do not. The sky is falling. The Japanese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Russians want world domination so we have to stop them. The Chinese want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Koreans want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Vietnamese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Taliban want world domination so we have to stop them. The Iranians want world domination so we have to stop them. ISIS wants world domination so we have to stop them. Which ones do you suggest that we stop first? And as to the first part of your statement , "For the last time .." I hope that is a promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 How many Canadians have joined ISIS? Do you have a statistic? As far as I can see the number is insignificant. Won't know for sure until we kill 'em all. Go leafs ! Allah Akbar !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Won't know for sure until we kill 'em all. Go leafs ! Allah Akbar !! Trolls are so boring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I have little trust in someone producing a marketing video purporting to represent the views of whoever. If you are prepared the eat the BS that you are being fed than that is your option. I do not. The sky is falling. The Japanese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Russians want world domination so we have to stop them. The Chinese want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Koreans want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Vietnamese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Taliban want world domination so we have to stop them. The Iranians want world domination so we have to stop them. ISIS wants world domination so we have to stop them. Which ones do you suggest that we stop first? And as to the first part of your statement , "For the last time .." I hope that is a promise. Would you want to live under Sharia law? Do you have any idea what it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Would you want to live under Sharia law? Do you have any idea what it is? No. Yes ; http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law What has that got to do with the topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) I have little trust in someone producing a marketing video purporting to represent the views of whoever. If you are prepared the eat the BS that you are being fed than that is your option. I do not. The sky is falling. The Japanese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Russians want world domination so we have to stop them. The Chinese want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Koreans want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Vietnamese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Taliban want world domination so we have to stop them. The Iranians want world domination so we have to stop them. ISIS wants world domination so we have to stop them. Which ones do you suggest that we stop first? And as to the first part of your statement , "For the last time .." I hope that is a promise. Strawman argument / guilt by association. Where have I claimed that any of the above groups other than ISIS want to take over the world (though now that you mention it, the Taliban have similar goals)? Look, the intents of ISIS is not exactly hidden. They are very active on social media. Edited September 5, 2014 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I have little trust in someone producing a marketing video purporting to represent the views of whoever. If you are prepared the eat the BS that you are being fed than that is your option. I do not. The sky is falling. The Japanese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Russians want world domination so we have to stop them. The Chinese want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Koreans want world domination so we have to stop them. The North Vietnamese want world domination so we have to stop them. The Taliban want world domination so we have to stop them. The Iranians want world domination so we have to stop them. ISIS wants world domination so we have to stop them. Which ones do you suggest that we stop first? And as to the first part of your statement , "For the last time .." I hope that is a promise. This order. But that's just a suggestion. 1) ISIS wants world domination so we have to stop them. 2) The Taliban want world domination so we have to stop them. 3) The Iranians want world domination so we have to stop them. 4) The Russians want world domination so we have to stop them. 5) The North Koreans want world domination so we have to stop them. 6) The Chinese want world domination so we have to stop them. 7) The North Vietnamese want world domination so we have to stop them. - They do?? 8) The Japanese want world domination so we have to stop them. - Wouldn't bother me too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) No. Yes ; http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law What has that got to do with the topic? Simple English wikipedia? Really? Is that where you get most of your information? The normal wikipedia article is too much reading? Edited September 5, 2014 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 If we do not know why they left how can we make sure they do not come back. Maybe if we knew why they left we could stop the flow from this end. I don't see how the one is necessarily connected to the other. Sure, it would be nice to stop the flow, so long as they stayed good. What if you just stopped the flow but they still became nut jobs? Why, no neck would be safe. Better to let them go, and then stop them coming back in. When they try, return them to the middle east. But put them down in a Shiite run area. Let the Shiites know they are coming. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) 8) The Japanese want world domination so we have to stop them. - Wouldn't bother me too much. Lol. That's true. If the Japanese took over the word, it probably wouldn't be so bad. Most parts of the world would probably be better off. Edited September 5, 2014 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't see how the one is necessarily connected to the other. Sure, it would be nice to stop the flow, so long as they stayed good. What if you just stopped the flow but they still became nut jobs? Why, no neck would be safe. Better to let them go, and then stop them coming back in. When they try, return them to the middle east. But put them down in a Shiite run area. Let the Shiites know they are coming. Problem solved. Sadly, we will do neither. This being Canada and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sadly, we will do neither. This being Canada and all. Sadly, I suspect many of them will end up rotting in the desert sun. You reap what you sow as the old saying goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talby Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I'm looking forward to some evidence of this. ISIS are just full of mercenaries? So that's somehow better? They're loping people's domes off and committing mass executions because the money is good? It would almost be more understandable if they'd do horrible things because they believe in their cause. Not because some Mullah cut them a cheque. People from the the West could find a lot better and safer ways to make money that going into the crappiest places on earth to kill innocent civilians. They could accomplish that here by selling Heroine. I have no direct evidence only circumstantial evidence. I base the assertion on two facts: Most of the IS guys aren't foreign to the region, they are locals from Iraq, Syria and the places nearby. Nearby being anywhere people normally where sandals to work. and Guys from those areas, in general, are by our standards are broke. Most people +- 1000 km from the equator, whether the middle east or Panama, are broke , but around there prolly pretty poor This is true in non conflict zones, this is a conflict zone, so they are broke®. IS is framed in the Western world view as an organization driven by "ideals" in this case radical Islam. Ideals are a luxury, like electricity is a luxury, and a sewer system is a luxury. Things we take for granted. In my experience uneducated broke people don't have time to argue politics, assuming they understood them, they are too busy looking for their next meal. This is true for IS fighters or can collectors pushing a shopping cart in downtown Toronto. Most of them don't know where Iraq is on a map, and most probably wouldn't understand a "map" anyway. To us its a grade 3 concept, we learn in a centrally heated building before or after something we call "lunch." They don't understand national borders, nor can they read the words printed on a sign at the border. They do know how to load and fire an RPG, sharpen a knife, fix a car engine with broken tea spoon, butcher and cook anything that moves and many can live in austere conditions in a desert environment. Those are the types of skills skills IS soldiers have, and who they likely are. They aren't Iraqis, they aren't Syrians, although we would call them that, they are regional version of the Hatfields, and the McCoys who after a "meetin, mended their ways cuz the the smart man told them the koran said so, and they get $50/week to take home to help feed the clan" Long range planning like a "caliphate" isn't something people like this give a sh*t about, they are in it for the immediate benefits, not the IS RRSP and pension plans. This seems to be missed in the analysis...in the media. The media gives the impression that they are 'mostly' psychotic, and overstate the westerners in their ranks. Generally people +-1000 km from the equator have a different view of life/death than us. They grew up in places where people die young, if not from bullets & bombs, then malnutrition, child birth, disease, starvation, murder, etc. Consequently the right to 'life,' and empathy is mildly diminished and being a mean f*cker comes that much easier. Again this isn't so much an Islamist thing, although fundamentalist wing nuts can capitalize on it hence the broad brutality. Not unlike how Pol Pot did with illiterate uneducated Cambodian farm kids in 70's demonizing anything "not us" I'd guess that 50%-90% of IS fit the description I have given, the rest are starring in videos, managing the unwashed troops and a few are secretly wishing they'd never boarded a plane to fight the "jihad" Although there are perhaps just as many who still think it's a good thing, and are waiting for the day they can be the big man. But its the 50-90% that are the worker bees, and if they go on strike, switch sides, the whole IS caliphate thing is as likely as a nation state with Donald Trump as the King within central London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Lol. That's true. If the Japanese took over the word, it probably wouldn't be so bad. Most parts of the world would probably be better off. Yeah right, because the Japanese Imperial Army treated all the locals so well last time they had a shot at world domination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Guys from those areas, in general, are by our standards are broke. Most people +- 1000 km from the equator, whether the middle east or Panama Learn basic geography. Syria is 33 degrees north. Given that the radius of the Earth is 6378 km, this means that Syria is about 3673 km North of the equator. How is that +/- 1000 km from the equator. IS is framed in the Western world view as an organization driven by "ideals" in this case radical Islam. The west isn't 'framing' IS from doing this. IS is driven by ideals. If you don't believe me, why don't you read their twitter feed or see the various online videos they have explaining their motives. Most of them don't know where Iraq is on a map, and most probably wouldn't understand a "map" anyway. To us its a grade 3 concept, we learn in a centrally heated building before or after something we call "lunch." It is ironic that you criticize people for a lack of knowledge of geography when you think that Syria and Iraq are within 1000 km from the equator. They don't understand national borders, nor can they read the words printed on a sign at the border. Uhh, they do understand national borders. They just reject nationalism. And yes they can read. In fact, they have a very high literacy rate (actually the Islamic world has general had a decent literacy rate, except maybe Afghanistan). It is very important to the IS militants that they know how to read so that they can read the Quran and other Islamic texts. Reading ability also helps them communicate via social networks. They do know how to load and fire an RPG, sharpen a knife, fix a car engine with broken tea spoon, butcher and cook anything that moves and many can live in austere conditions in a desert environment. Those are the types of skills skills IS soldiers have, and who they likely are. They aren't Iraqis, they aren't Syrians, although we would call them that, they are regional version of the Hatfields, and the McCoys who after a "meetin, mended their ways cuz the the smart man told them the koran said so, and they get $50/week to take home to help feed the clan" Long range planning like a "caliphate" isn't something people like this give a sh*t about, they are in it for the immediate benefits, not the IS RRSP and pension plans. This seems to be missed in the analysis...in the media. Your portrayal of the militants is so absolutely wrong, that I sort of feel insulted for the militants. Long range planning like a "caliphate" isn't something people like this give a sh*t about, they are in it for the immediate benefits, not the IS RRSP and pension plans. Of course they want a Caliphate. They want to fight for Islam, establish Sharia, and go to Jannah. What does an RRSP or a pension plan matter if you are likely to die in 1 year and the promise of a wonderful eternal afterlife is more appealing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jannah The media gives the impression that they are 'mostly' psychotic, and overstate the westerners in their ranks. Who is overstating the number of westerners in the ranks of ISIS? If you look at their numbers, about 5% of ISIS consists of Westerners. Or are you referring to the fact that ISIS purposely uses westerners as spokes people to the West (such as when performing beheadings)? That is because it makes sense to use Westerners as they have better English/French/Whatever and can communicate more effectively to spread their message. Generally people +-1000 km from the equator have a different view of life/death than us. Again, learn geography. They grew up in places where people die young, if not from bullets & bombs, then malnutrition, child birth, disease, starvation, murder, etc. Syria had a life expectancy of 75 years before the civil war. That is relatively high and only 4 years less than the USA. And these countries aren't exactly dirt poor. Syria has a GDP per capita comparable to Ukraine, and Iraq has a GDP per capita about twice that of Ukraine. And directly to the south, you have some of the richest countries in the World (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain). Iraq and Syria actually have a long history of being relatively rich countries relative to the rest of the world. From the start of the Mesopotamian civilization to the height of the Islamic Golden Age (like 700 years ago) this region was one of the richest in the world. Even if you go back to like the 70s and 80s, Iraq and Syria were relatively well off, modern and secular compared to many of the surrounding countries under the Arab Nationalist regimes of Assad and Hussein. Your attempt to portray the people of Syria, Iraq as illiterate, dirt poor, and having a low life expectancy simply does not agree with reality. Consequently the right to 'life,' and empathy is mildly diminished and being a mean f*cker comes that much easier. Again this isn't so much an Islamist thing, although fundamentalist wing nuts can capitalize on it hence the broad brutality. Not unlike how Pol Pot did with illiterate uneducated Cambodian farm kids in 70's demonizing anything "not us" And this is why we see groups that have the goal of world domination in other poor regions of the world where Islam is absent (Southern Half of Africa, various Latin American Countries, Hati, India, Burma, South East Asia, etc.). Oh wait, we don't! 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-1=e^ipi Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Yeah right, because the Japanese Imperial Army treated all the locals so well last time they had a shot at world domination. Imperial Japan is very different from 2014 Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Simple English wikipedia? Really? Is that where you get most of your information? The normal wikipedia article is too much reading? I do read a little more extensively than the reference I gave to you. I thought that you were seeking information and gave a reference that you might be comfortable with. Would you like another - perhaps more insightful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't see how the one is necessarily connected to the other. Sure, it would be nice to stop the flow, so long as they stayed good. What if you just stopped the flow but they still became nut jobs? Why, no neck would be safe. Better to let them go, and then stop them coming back in. When they try, return them to the middle east. But put them down in a Shiite run area. Let the Shiites know they are coming. Problem solved. More and more "they" seem to be Canadian born youth, part of the Canadian culture and originally starting to become productive citizens and then turned (or were turned). I would like to know why. Wouldn't you? If you do not know the cause then how can you create a remedy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Your attempt to portray the people of Syria, Iraq as illiterate, dirt poor, and having a low life expectancy simply does not agree with reality. If anything this portrayal is more in tune with the ignorance the west has displayed in it's fumbling attempts to save/fix/dominate the ME region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Strawman argument / guilt by association. Where have I claimed that any of the above groups other than ISIS want to take over the world (though now that you mention it, the Taliban have similar goals)? Look, the intents of ISIS is not exactly hidden. They are very active on social media. If I got on Twitter and started spewing the stuff they do, my account would be axed, based on hate speech/ideology. How does ISIS get a pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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