monty16 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/ Could we limit this thread to people over the age of 18 and to people who can read? Not just the title of the article but the ideas expressed in the rest of it. I'll save my own comments for anything worthwhile that can come out of this. Think of it as a challenge to those who consider themselves educated and aware of the situation in the ME. And for others, I would hope that you take any worthwhile comments coming out of this as a chance to learn something. Please don't spam this thread with off topic comments. I'm going to be asking the admin to take notice and step on those that do. An experiment is elevating the level of discourse on this forum. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I understand your desire to have a good discussion but you should be aware that RT is not widely accepted here as an objective source for news or analysis. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/ Could we limit this thread to people over the age of 18 and to people who can read? Not just the title of the article but the ideas expressed in the rest of it. I'll save my own comments for anything worthwhile that can come out of this. Think of it as a challenge to those who consider themselves educated and aware of the situation in the ME. And for others, I would hope that you take any worthwhile comments coming out of this as a chance to learn something. Please don't spam this thread with off topic comments. I'm going to be asking the admin to take notice and step on those that do. An experiment is elevating the level of discourse on this forum. Thanks! More Putin style propoganda. So I suppose the fact that many of the 9\11 hijackers trained in Fla. makes it a US driven "conspiracy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Samples: "Douri has miraculously managed to avoid capture and now to return with a vengeance to retake huge parts of Sunni Iraq. Luck or well-placed friends in Washington?" "Key members of ISIS it now emerges were trained by US CIA and Special Forces command at a secret camp in Jordan in 2012, according to informed Jordanian officials." No evidence... speculation... I think that this article is of low quality. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/ Could we limit this thread to people over the age of 18 and to people who can read? Not just the title of the article but the ideas expressed in the rest of it. I'll save my own comments for anything worthwhile that can come out of this. Think of it as a challenge to those who consider themselves educated and aware of the situation in the ME. And for others, I would hope that you take any worthwhile comments coming out of this as a chance to learn something. Please don't spam this thread with off topic comments. I'm going to be asking the admin to take notice and step on those that do. An experiment is elevating the level of discourse on this forum. Thanks! The level of condescending arrogance in the above would cause fewer giggles and snickers if it was accompanied by at least some indication it was in any way justified. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I understand your desire to have a good discussion but you should be aware that RT is not widely accepted here as an objective source for news or analysis. No news network is widely accepted here. In any case I had a quick look, and CIA training of FSA operatives in Jordan has been reported by numerous other outlets, like the Guardian, and the German "Der Spiegel". Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 No news network is widely accepted here. Untrue. Most major news outlets are generally accepted here. The only ones who usually question them are the moonnbat conspiracy set. In any case I had a quick look, and CIA training of FSA operatives in Jordan has been reported by numerous other outlets, like the Guardian, and the German "Der Spiegel". The FSA is a moderate (as these things are judged) non-denominational and largely secular organization. It is not, in other words ISIS. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 No news network is widely accepted here. Especially government run propaganda machines like RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/ Could we limit this thread to people over the age of 18 and to people who can read? Not just the title of the article but the ideas expressed in the rest of it. I'll save my own comments for anything worthwhile that can come out of this. Think of it as a challenge to those who consider themselves educated and aware of the situation in the ME. And for others, I would hope that you take any worthwhile comments coming out of this as a chance to learn something. Please don't spam this thread with off topic comments. I'm going to be asking the admin to take notice and step on those that do. An experiment is elevating the level of discourse on this forum. Thanks! I am over 18, can read a bit, I just disagree with the nonsnese you post. Should I be limited as well? I seem to meet 2 of 3 of your requirements. Well of course being able to read I dismiss pretty much anything that RT prints. OK, cut me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Your passion is commendable but may be misdirected. If your intent is to try to convince readers of this board to your position then to insult them is not a good strategy. At first reading, it seems as if you are standing there with a chip on your shoulder, daring people to knock it off. That may discourage interaction. I am prepared to comment but am not sure what the topic is. Please be more concise so that I may understand and decide whether to comment or not. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Apparently it has something to do with the idea that the US is to blame for all of the Muslim worlds problems. And if you don't buy that...off with your head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 This article is hands down the best explanation you will find of ISIS successes and failures so far in Iraq: http://pando.com/2014/06/23/the-war-nerd-like-it-or-not-whats-happening-in-iraq-right-now-is-part-of-a-rational-process/ . The guys alias, "The War Nerd" is not an idle boast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Your passion is commendable but may be misdirected. If your intent is to try to convince readers of this board to your position then to insult them is not a good strategy. At first reading, it seems as if you are standing there with a chip on your shoulder, daring people to knock it off. That may discourage interaction. I am prepared to comment but am not sure what the topic is. Please be more concise so that I may understand and decide whether to comment or not. On Gusrd for Thee, That's no something I would expect to hear from an adult but I understand that it's based on your own paranoid feelings of RT news. It comes off as a resentment of RT too because none of what I've posted from that source has been rebutted in any way. They all just scream, is not, is not. You probably don't fit on this thread but I'll leave that up to you. Actually I didn't get into this with the intent of convincing anybody of anything. I have no interest in making friends either. And as to what the topic is, it's the submissions being made by that link. Would you like ,e to break it down into the separate submissions it makes or would you like to just take it on your own? dre, I appreciate your comments because you show no fear of not following along with the US propaganda machine. And make no mistake, I'm not assuming that you agree with it all. I'm not sure I do either but I'm interested in finding out and will gladly accept any kind of rebuttals anyone makes. Remiel, Thanks for the link. I'll read it but does it disagree with the RT link in any significant way. Argus and Shady, the usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) This article is hands down the best explanation you will find of ISIS successes and failures so far in Iraq: http://pando.com/2014/06/23/the-war-nerd-like-it-or-not-whats-happening-in-iraq-right-now-is-part-of-a-rational-process/ . The guys alias, "The War Nerd" is not an idle boast. The guy's a transplanted Kurd living in America. He says: Let me tell you, for a Sunni Kurd to say, “I have Shia friends, I have Christian friends” is about as brave and radical as it gets, short of suicide, in the Middle East. I never heard any of my Saudi students say anything remotely like it. Well, how could they? By law, Shi’ism and Christianity are banned in the Kingdom. Which is referring to Saudi as the kingdom so it has little to do with Iraq where Shia and Christians were accepted in Iraq society by Saddam. I have some difficulty in taking it as anything more than a Kurd's POV, even though it comes off as being rather informed. Not terribly important though and not worth reading too much into in my opinion if he's to credited with that quote. As to his submissions on ISIS, as deep as it gets, he should have tried to stick with that. As for comparing that with what RT tells us, at least RT makes some important submissions that are a little more enlightening than the height of the hills. Accept them or reject them, but do it with substance. That's all I'm interested in on this thread. Or, if you like, point out what your article is saying that makes it so convincing for you. it just didn't do much for me. Edited June 25, 2014 by monty16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 On Gusrd for Thee, That's no something I would expect to hear from an adult but I understand that it's based on your own paranoid feelings of RT news. It comes off as a resentment of RT too because none of what I've posted from that source has been rebutted in any way. They all just scream, is not, is not. You probably don't fit on this thread but I'll leave that up to you. Actually I didn't get into this with the intent of convincing anybody of anything. I have no interest in making friends either. And as to what the topic is, it's the submissions being made by that link. Would you like ,e to break it down into the separate submissions it makes or would you like to just take it on your own? dre, I appreciate your comments because you show no fear of not following along with the US propaganda machine. And make no mistake, I'm not assuming that you agree with it all. I'm not sure I do either but I'm interested in finding out and will gladly accept any kind of rebuttals anyone makes. Remiel, Thanks for the link. I'll read it but does it disagree with the RT link in any significant way. Argus and Shady, the usual. Well that's good because I doubt you've convinced anybody of anything. Maybe try a more reliable sourse than RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well that's good because I doubt you've convinced anybody of anything. Maybe try a more reliable sourse than RT. You need to try to attack RT for their opinions, not me. Are you capable of doing that and are you capable of understanding what RT is saying or is it just a kneejerk rejection of anything that comes out of Russia? You see, it's not good enough to just keep on criticizing RT with no substance. If you want to remain credible then you are going to have to apply yourself and actually read and try to understand what they are suggesting. That's what I've been doing with US media and will gladly continue to do. How do you want to be seen on this forum? I want to be seen and regarded as credible and I want people who think my comments aren't credible to challenge them. Not just keep up the mindless babbling of Russia bad, US good, blah, blah, blah. So let me help you to understand, considering that you are demonstrating that you really haven't been capable so far. I'm not going to convince any of the people on this forum of anything. Everyone has long ago become entrenched in their dogma. I will be able to discredit them and show that they lack any meaningful intelligence or capability and that may play alright with others who come here to read. Or maybe it won't and it'll just make me happy? Do you actually disagree with anything that RT said in that link? Do you understand what they mean and what they are saying. Here's your chance, show us what you're made of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 You need to try to attack RT for their opinions, not me. Are you capable of doing that and are you capable of understanding what RT is saying or is it just a kneejerk rejection of anything that comes out of Russia? You see, it's not good enough to just keep on criticizing RT with no substance. If you want to remain credible then you are going to have to apply yourself and actually read and try to understand what they are suggesting. That's what I've been doing with US media and will gladly continue to do. How do you want to be seen on this forum? I want to be seen and regarded as credible and I want people who think my comments aren't credible to challenge them. Not just keep up the mindless babbling of Russia bad, US good, blah, blah, blah. So let me help you to understand, considering that you are demonstrating that you really haven't been capable so far. I'm not going to convince any of the people on this forum of anything. Everyone has long ago become entrenched in their dogma. I will be able to discredit them and show that they lack any meaningful intelligence or capability and that may play alright with others who come here to read. Or maybe it won't and it'll just make me happy? Do you actually disagree with anything that RT said in that link? Do you understand what they mean and what they are saying. Here's your chance, show us what you're made of. I think my karma just ran over your dogma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Seriously, you can look back at a couple of posts already levelled by others against where you seem to come from. The "arrogance" part, and the "RT validity" part. Apparently your favourite RT contributor doesn't have a lot of credibility either. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think my karma just ran over your dogma. So is that the depth of your substance? Is it that you really don't understand anything about world politics? Come on friend, show us your stuff and tell us what you find so wrong with RT's analysis of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 So is that the depth of your substance? Is it that you really don't understand anything about world politics? Come on friend, show us your stuff and tell us what you find so wrong with RT's analysis of the situation. First of all consider the source of RT. But, if you are prone to that type of reportage, go ahead, but at least go elsewhere for alternate opinions. Even if they don't suit your agenda. Whatever the hell that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 First of all consider the source of RT. But, if you are prone to that type of reportage, go ahead, but at least go elsewhere for alternate opinions. Even if they don't suit your agenda. Whatever the hell that is! You rebut nothing RT says because you don't understand what they're saying. nuff said. nuff time wasted on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 You rebut nothing RT says because you don't understand what they're saying. nuff said. nuff time wasted on that. Exactly nuff time. Asalready been stated RT is not exactly a readily considered source. And have you done any research on your William Engdahl? Not much to report other than what he himself posts. Oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I would suggest that there is hardly a credible US news source that 'is' giving us the straight goods. Certainly CNN and CBS have both lost credibility with their lying and twisting of the facts in favour of US propananda efforts. And as for MSNBE and Fox News, no thinking person would even accuse either of them as being anything other than entertainment for the shallowest of minds. The financial backing for ISIS jihadists reportedly also comes from three of the closest US allies in the Sunni world—Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. So what about Fox news? Does Fox news make up ridiculous stories? Lies? Propaganda? Edited June 25, 2014 by monty16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 To answer - yes, Fox News does make up ridiculous stories and they're called out here for doing so. Similarly, I pointed out that the RT story adds speculative questions (" Luck or well-placed friends in Washington? "). They also make no bones about partisan accusations (" The claims by Washington that they took special care not to train ‘Salafist’ or jihadist extremists, is a joke. ") (" Washington has done virtually nothing but make a few silly speeches about their ‘concern’ and dispatch 275 US special forces to allegedly protect US personnel in Iraq. " ) What is the US's motivation to sow havoc in a region that they spent billions and thousands of American lives to build up ? And to destabilize oil prices when that was supposedly the entire motivation for the Iraq invasion ? The article doesn't even address that does it ? The problem I have with conspiracy theories like this is (or ONE problem) is that they never add up to a central strategy. With these people, the US would willingly make itself look bad to achieve some minor goal in the region. Now, you add RT's questionable reputation ( Here's their article on why 9/11 was probably an inside job: http://rt.com/usa/911-attack-job/ ) and it puts them in a different class of media from Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CBC, BBC, and other established information institutions. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 911 Truthers are unreliable sources by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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