ISIS Declares Islamic State.

[WestCoastRunner]

No, I meant you don't need to be outside that group to get differing opinions.

As to your question: Beats me. I honestly don't know that much about most posters. Advertise?

[WestCoastRunner]

I offered some organic suggestions. No need to advertise. However we all saw where that went.

[Bonam]

What bothers me the most about all these topics is that we have such a vanilla view of everything. Mostly we have feedback from retired or middle aged white men. We have no feedback from women, Asians, Muslims, etc. we are operating in a vacuum. I would love to hear from outsiders to this forum. How do we do that?

Presumably, if one wants opinions from people that are outside this forum, one would look outside this forum.

That being said, we have input from at least one Asian and one black member. We have opinions from several Jews. There are also several women on these forums, including yourself. And, there's a decent number of relatively young members (in their 20s and 30s). The cross-section here is more diverse than you might expect.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Bonam

[Hudson Jones]

You ignored my earlier post (link). Primitive people will always fall victim to more advanced ones. That is is, apparently, except in Israel. I can't find the exact quote, but I believe that Mark Twain had said that the world would never let so many free and clever Jews be in the same place. You're echoing the Jew hatred he decried.

More "YOU'RE A JEW HATER!" nonsense.

jbg: You are a bigot. Pure and simple. You have classified Palestinians as primitive and Jews as the opposite and then have used that extremely bigoted declaration to excuse Israel's theft and systematic ethnic cleansing.

Your ideas are primitive.

[Shady]

More "YOU'RE A JEW HATER!" nonsense.

jbg: You are a bigot. Pure and simple. You have classified Palestinians as primitive and Jews as the opposite and then have used that extremely bigoted declaration to excuse Israel's theft and systematic ethnic cleansing.

Your ideas are primitive.

I can understand the theft assertion, but the ethnic cleansing assertion is pure hyperbole and completely absurd.

[Solidarity]

It boggles my mind how much Israel and Jews and accusations of racism and antisemitism come up on this forum in my short time here, it seems like every thread gets infected. This boring repetition should be confined to an 'angry man yells at cloud' thread (maybe the Israel thread) because it never adds to the discussion.

[Hudson Jones]

It boggles my mind how much Israel and Jews and accusations of racism and antisemitism come up on this forum in my short time here, it seems like every thread gets infected. This boring repetition should be confined to an 'angry man yells at cloud' thread (maybe the Israel thread) because it never adds to the discussion.

It's because it is rare that you see a group of people try to excuse the acts of human rights violations like the pro-Zionist crowd do.

[Rue]

Solidarity there is a behavioural doctrine I am sure you are well aware of. we all are. Every religion claims it as their own. Its simple really-treat people as you would have them treat you.

On this forum there remains an entourage of anti Israeli haters. They choose to take all discussions on politics and turn them into a pretext to engage in comments that clallenge the right of any Jew to exist in and as a collective state.

That entourage has no objection to any other people in the world having their own collective states.

Now read back the last response from Hudson Jones, he stated:

"It's because it is rare that you see a group of people try to excuse the acts of human rights violations like the pro-Zionist crowd do."

Take out the reference to pro zionist crowd and then insert one of these references:

gay

Arab

Muslim

anti-Israel

Christian

black

feminist

Chinese

Russian

American

white middle class men

disabled

abortionist

Ford/Tory/Chow/Harper/Trudeau/Mulcair/Obama

Does it matter who the reference is made to?

Surely I do not need to argue to you that what Hudson Jones has done is what he always does, come on this board to single out with negative stereotype anyone who supports the right of Jews to exist in and as as a state, and when he or others in his entourage do the same two phenomena then occur,

i-others join him in a sing along that remains fixated on a Zionism, Jews, Israelis and perceived supporters of Israel; and

ii-others challenge his singling out only Jews and no other group on the planet with a denial of their right to statehood.

You stated it " boggles my (your) mind how much Israel and Jews and accusations of racism and antisemitism come up on this forum.

Let me break that down in 2.

In regards to the first source that boggles y ou, i.e., how many times Israel comes up on this board I am not sure why that boggles you-surely by now the repeat pattern of when and what anti Israel issues are raised has become clear as is the agenda to flood this board with those comments. Why be boggled?

In regards to the second source of bogglement, who be boggled? If the same entourage over and over again uses the pretext of attacking Zionism to call ZIonists a cancer to be wiped out, what response to that other than from the anti Zionists do you expect?

Would you ask a person who is robbed, why they call the person who robbed them a robber? Well? So why the confusion about the responses regarding Hudson Jones or others in that entourage being hateful bigots when they single out Jews and attack them for wanting to be a collective? You want to sanitize that and call it anti Zionism? Would that not boggle you?

Why do these same people never once question the existence of numerous Muslim (Sharia law) states and the right of Muslims to live in them but do question the right of Jews to live in just one state,?

Why do they never initiate discussions on anything other than attacking Jews for defining their identity through a collective?

If it's not anti Jewish or anti-semtiic why not? How can it not be. Where do they or anyone get off telling any Jew how they must define their identity and even go so far as to come on this forum and declare-yone is an acceptable Jew if they choose not to identify their Jewishness through a a collective identity, but if on the other hand if a Jew choose sto identify his or her being a Jew through a collective state then as Hudson Jones said they are a cancer that needs to be wiped out.

How much more hateful against Jews does that get? Where does Hudson Jones get off telling me I am a cancer and need to be wiped out because I believe my Jewish identity is an existential one addressed through a collective identity?

Why the double standard from him? Have you read once from him or any of the so called "ani Zionists" the reference to Muslim states being cancerous and the notion of the lack of separation between Islam religion and the state as being cancerous and in need of wiping out?

Does it boggle me? Not me. I see that repeat cycle of hateful anti-semitic posts on many political forums.

I see thatreference to calling Jews who choose to identify as a collective as a cancer needing to be wiped out a couched term callingf or violence and terrorism against Jews who have that belief. You think calling that anti Zionist and not ani Jewish or anti semitic makes it o.k.?

Is that all it takes? Its ok to call on wiping Jews out if they want to live in a state because its anti Zionist not anti semitic?

This attempt to engage in semantics of calling it anti Zionism and not anti semitism does not mean its any more correct for the exact same reason I explained above when I pointed out the object of the hate doesn't justify the hate-the reference as who you slur does not magically justify it.

You might be bogggled why this board is flooded by Israeli references I am not. This board like many political boards is flooded by a thread of anti Israeli threads.

Does it suggest a set script writers propogaties such forums?

Lol you tell me. Some already think this forum only has white middle aged men on it.

This thread was hijacked by discussions against Israel as a deliberate attempt to focus away from the topic-MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALIST EXTREMIST terrorism and its current incarnation as ISIS.

The same people who want you to refocus on Israel do not want you discussing ISIS, Hamas, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Iran, Assad, the Saudi funding of terrorism, the Iranian funding of terrorism.

So let's go right back to the actual topic. ISIS is not new. Its just the latest version of a 1,400 year old song.That song calling for the creation of a one world Muslim caliphate run by a Muslim Dhumma (Muslim clergy council) is not new.

Its been repeated for over 1,400 years by Muslims who interpret their religion in that manner.

The agenda of ISIS, Hamas, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, its the same. Oh they may differ on whether that caliphate is Sunni or Shiite Muslim, or whether it will be run by the Muslim Brotherhood, a Saudi monarchy or Iran but its the same agenda and terrorism is part of that agenda.

What we call terrorism has existed in the Middle East ad infinitum. Its consistently used by those in the name of their religion and the only thing that changes are the weaposn and even then it hasn't changed that much as the beheadings are pretty much as they were 1,400 years ago as is the selling off of women and childen as slaves and the massacering after rape and pillaging of anyone not preceived to be appropriate which is any non Muslim and for that matter most Muslims.

The names of the so called Muslim warriors calling for the caliphate changes but the basic interpretation of Islam by these exremists remains the same.

What word would you like to call them? I call them vermin but quite frankly I consider cock-roaches and rats superior to them on the evolutionary scale.

What to you want to call people who rape, murder, engage in brutal terrorism and inhumanity?

Oh I get it. The same entourage who pisses on Israel would have you call ISIS, Hamas, Al Qaaeda et al;

freedom fighters

victims of Western oppression reacting as one would expect to oppression

misunderstood

warriors

righteous

justified

This attempt to try enagge blaming the West and Israel for their actions is a crock of dung

.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Rue

[Big Guy]

It boggles my mind how much Israel and Jews and accusations of racism and antisemitism come up on this forum in my short time here, it seems like every thread gets infected. This boring repetition should be confined to an 'angry man yells at cloud' thread (maybe the Israel thread) because it never adds to the discussion.

I fully agree. Nothing of any consequence gets resolved, the animosity escalates and then personal insults multiply. I am beginning to believe that some people post only to feed their anger for the day and take pleasure in aggravating people anonymously. What a waste of time, effort and computer memory.

[Argus]

It boggles my mind how much Israel and Jews and accusations of racism and antisemitism come up on this forum in my short time here, it seems like every thread gets infected. This boring repetition should be confined to an 'angry man yells at cloud' thread (maybe the Israel thread) because it never adds to the discussion.

There are a lot of anti-Semites here. That's why most of the time 90% of the threads on the 'rest of the world' topic are dedicated to lambasting Israel, which, aside from being full of Jews, is a rather small, unimportant country with, by the standards of its geographical neighbours, an excellent human rights record

Edited October 9, 2014 by Argus

[GostHacked]

There are a lot of anti-Semites here. That's why most of the time 90% of the threads on the 'rest of the world' topic are dedicated to lambasting Israel, which, aside from being full of Jews, is a rather small, unimportant country with, by the standards of its geographical neighbours, an excellent human rights record

Who are those anti-semites? Dare not call me one, I will take you to task on it.

[eyeball]

There are a lot of anti-Semites here.

Well yeah, if you count the anti-Palestinians - otherwise there's just a lot of people who disagree with you is all.

[Rue]

Who are those anti-semites? Dare not call me one, I will take you to task on it.

Why would you even respond if it does not apply to you?

Lol. I had know idea Argus is capable of arousing so much anxiety in you.

Lol.

This is a thread about ISIS not you and not about your bias against Israel. You want to piss on Israel go to the appropriate thread.

This constant attempt to hijack this thread and avoid discussing ISIS means what exactly?

Why will you not discuss ISIS on this thread? Why are you so concerned about defending yourself?

Are you really that insecure and in need of justifying your commments?

Lol.

Guess so.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

Well yeah, if you count the anti-Palestinians - otherwise there's just a lot of people who disagree with you is all.

So now let me get this straight. If I come on this board and deny a Jew the right to identifying him or herself through a collective identity I am just an anti Zionist but if I deny a Palestinian a state I am an anti-semite. Is that how it works?

Oh now wait.

If I criticize Hamas and Muslim fundamentalist extremism that makes me anti Palestinian?

Oh now wait.

If I point out that there is a double standard in demanding a Palestinian state but denying a Jewish one called Israel I am an anti-semite?

Oh now wait.

If I find you selective and lacking in credibility of any kind for your last comment am I anti Palestinian?

Oh say now am I an anti-semite or an anti Palestinian or both if I believe the very same rights Palestinians demand Jews have and are not going relinquish?

Oh now wait. If I am someone who refers to Jews who choose to live in as a cancer needing to be wiped out, am I an anti-semite or just an anti Zionist?

Oh now wait, you can't read past the first sentence.

You are the same person who asks me what I think about Saudi Arabia. Right.

You seem to be quite selective in your memory, in your standards of what you call anti-semitic.

Want to continue playing semantics and semitics?

Move on.

This thread is about ISIS. WHat is it that makes you so frightened to discuss ISIS you desperately keep trying to refocus this thread onto pissing on Israel? Hmmmm?

If you have nothing to say about ISIS why not go back to one of the countless never ending piss on Israel threads?

Lol.

Right.

You want to know what I think about Saudi Arabia. Like I have never stated my opinion on their role in regards to ISIS.

Got it.

[Hudson Jones]

Is there anyone on this board who is against the State of Israel inside the recognized international border? If so, let us name names.

Just to make it clear (again), I recognize Israel within the recognized international border.

Is there anyone on this board who is against a Palestinian State within the recognized international border? Anyone on this board okay with the annexation of Palesitnian land which is illegal according to the law?

I can name a few people.

[jacee]

Is there anyone on this board who is against the State of Israel inside the recognized international border? If so, let us name names.

Just to make it clear (again), I recognize Israel within the recognized international border.

Is there anyone on this board who is against a Palestinian State within the recognized international border? Anyone on this board okay with the annexation of Palesitnian land which is illegal according to the law?

I can name a few people.

DERAIL

[Rue]

Is there anyone on this board who is against the State of Israel inside the recognized international border? If so, let us name names.

Just to make it clear (again), I recognize Israel within the recognized international border.

Is there anyone on this board who is against a Palestinian State within the recognized international border? Anyone on this board okay with the annexation of Palesitnian land which is illegal according to the law?

I can name a few people.

This little skit expired. Move on.

You do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

You have stated on this board Zionism is a cancer to be wiped out, i.e., the Jewish state is a cancer to be wiped out.

You really think playing the spin that you recognize Israel without recognizing it as a Jewish state, plays anymore?

The skit is spent. Move along.

Better still why do you do this on the ISIS thread. Tee hee. Giggle. Look whose hijacking the ISIS thread again to play giggle semantic games about Israel because he has not one word to say about ISIS...

You criticize ISIS? You even acknowledge it. Right.

Excuse me while I puke Zionist blue and white.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

DERAIL

What about you Jacee. You want to avoid talking about ISIS on this thread?

You want to mix in on this stale, played out skit from the same script writer trying to avoid the topic?

For there to be peace in the Middle East:

1-Israel as a Jewish state and a second Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank must co-exist and recognize each other's rights to exist as a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. That Palestinian state let us not kid ourselves is going to be a Muslim one.

Here is what I think. I think Israel with all its problems, with all its failures is still more tolerant and has been able to achieve peace with its non Jews, then any Muslim state has with its non Muslims in the Middle East.

What I know is the Muslims of Israel live better than any Muslim in Muslim states of the Middle East. Their salary, lifestyle, access to medical care, their longevity is far higher.

What I know is with all its problems, Israel has put into practice a government that provides all the rights to Muslims and other non Jews in its country than any Muslim sharia law nation does in the Middle East.

What I know is Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis, Al Quaeda and its Syrian branch Al Nusra, and all the other Muslim extremist terrorist groups do not and will never accept any non Muslim as an equal and for that matter are just as much at war with their very own Muslims.

What I know is ISIS and the whole bloody lot of these extremists reflects a rigid, totalitarian, extreme fundamentalist religious cult that does not separate religion from state and has been carrying out a war on its people and non Muslims since the Muslim religion took formal shape.

What I know is that Muslim extremist fundamentalism and its political expression in terrorism is going nowehere and the cowards that come on this board and try avoid talking about it and play little word games won't stop me from saying what I have to say and that is-Muslims, Jews, Christians, I could not give a flying phack who you or anyone is-behave civilly and peacefully and treat others as you want to be treated, and things can be achieved.

Impose your rigid beliefs on others and define others as kkafir, dhimmi, Zionist cancer, etc., and you are doomed to failure.

Palestinians are not animals. They need a free state. They need hope. They are being choked and suffocated by Hamas and other extremists.

They also fuel the belief in many that the only solution to extremism is to react with bombings.

How do you teach people respect and tolerance? Well? You see Hudson Jones or whatever name he uses discussing that?

You see any of the rest of your Israel kaka entourage willing to discuss the failure of the Muslim world to put down its extremism and embrace passive approaches?

You won't hear it on this forum. The script from the desks in Damascus and Tehran don't allow it.

[jbg]

Is there anyone on this board who is against the State of Israel inside the recognized international border? If so, let us name names.

Just to make it clear (again), I recognize Israel within the recognized international border.

Would you recognize it as a Jewish state, with no "right of return" for Arabs, within those borders?

Is there anyone on this board who is against a Palestinian State within the recognized international border?

Within the recognized border for Israel? Of course I am.

Anyone on this board okay with the annexation of Palesitnian land which is illegal according to the law?

I can name a few people.

If that annexation is by purchase, or in the course of war started by the Arab side, I am in favor of such annexation. There are lots of Arab countries. People have been removed from ancestral lands by war many times in the course of history. A key example is the expulsion of Germans from Czechoslovakia after World War II. And Poland as well. How is this any different? Because Israel is illegitimate as a Jewish state in the view of people holding your views, no doubt.

[GostHacked]

Why would you even respond if it does not apply to you?

Why would you respond to this when it was not directed at you?

[Big Guy]

I have been critical of Canadian involvement in this latest Crusade into the Middle East but it is easy to criticize without having alternative suggestions. In my research on this topic I have come upon two analysis with which I agree completely, surprisingly they are published in the same paper.

Tony Burman represents most of what I believe on the roles of Canada and Turkey, the failure of US strategy and that the solution will have to be arrived at by Arabs with politics and not bombs;

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/11/five_lessons_from_the_war_against_islamic_state_burman.html

Lawrence Wilson was US Secretary of State Colin Powells chief of staff. I believe that he has a permanent solution to the complicated conflicts in the Area. He supports the controversial theory that the key is Iran and that the attitude of the West to Iran will have to change drastically;

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/11/the_right_way_to_fight_islamic_state_radicals.html

The current approach to the Middle East has been a series of faulty tactics based on a tactical approach by the West. If we are to assist in any solutions, we must now develop a strategy and not tactics. Bombs and killings are tactics; cooperation, diplomacy and alliances are political strategy.

Political accommodation, not tactics, are the solution.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Big Guy