ISIS Declares Islamic State.

[marcus]

Reading some of the posts in this thread, especially by Rue, who has a difficult time recognizing and understanding the different groups involved in the Middle East, I thought I would share the following article where it makes it clear that ISIS and Hamas are not the same:

No, Hamas isn’t ISIS, ISIS isn’t Hamas

But equating the two is Netanyahu’s latest way of hypnotizing people into supporting the Gaza war. He gets away with it because people are afraid that if they challenge this idiotic slogan, they’ll be accused of ‘defending Hamas.’

Anybody who isn’t a shill for Israel can see through Netanyahu’s new slogan,“Hamas is ISIS, ISIS is Hamas.” It’s such a crude attempt to brainwash people, to put the most horrifying image in their minds and associate it with Gaza, thereby cleansing Israel of those images of Gaza’s agony. Like he’s been doing his whole career, Netanyahu is insulting people’s intelligence, treating them like children, selling them the war with a short little singsong slogan they can all remember.

And he gets away with it, because people won’t challenge this idiocy for fear they’ll be accused of “defending Hamas.” Well, if anybody accuses me of defending Hamas in what I’m about to write, I accuse them in turn of supporting the war in Gaza because they enjoy seeing Palestinian children killed. One claim is as fair as the other.

[Keepitsimple]

Reading some of the posts in this thread, especially by Rue, who has a difficult time recognizing and understanding the different groups involved in the Middle East, I thought I would share the following article where it makes it clear that ISIS and Hamas are not the same:

Thanks for clearing that up - the difference is that Hamas is not as brutal as ISIS:

Just to be clear, I know very well that Hamas is a brutal, dictatorial organization; the term “Islamofascist” is indeed descriptive of its character. So in that limited sense, it’s the same as ISIS.

But the difference between Hamas and ISIS in the degree of their brutality, and in their strength, is so great as to be a qualitative difference.

And the author has to go back to the 30's and 40's for a feeble grasp of some immoral relevancy:

About Hamas’ executions in recent days of some 25 suspected collaborators, it’s a sickening reminder of this organization’s ruthlessness – but the fact is that the prestate Zionist underground organizations Irgun and Lehi executed many suspected Jewish collaborators.

Hamas will not stop - no matter how long it takes - until Israel no longer exists. Every rocket, every "martyred" woman and child is a ploy towards that end. There can be no peace as long as the murderous Hamas mindset endures. They are not ISIS - but they are driven by similar ideology - an ideology of hate.

[Big Guy]

Thank you for your interesting response. Logically, this will lead to clearer thinking about who/what/when the United States (and Canada) choose to affiliate themselves with as a matter of domestic and foreign policy. This will help in better understanding the events and discussion on the American television programming that appears to attract your attention on Sunday mornings.

God Save the Queen and Commonwealth !

Thank you for your unique viewpoint. The United States of America is the strongest military might in the world. It is proud of that fact and the citizens have no problem with pouring tax money into keeping up that military might. They keep sending their youngest and bravest into different parts of the earth to maintain that superiority and to keep the good old USA the beacon of freedom for all. It deserves all the glory it seeks and rightly receives. The Americans appear to be very comfortable in sacrificing the lives of their young to maintain that position.

Good for the USA and God Bless America!

As to the relationship between the USA and Canada, if the Americans are ready to send their youth into battles of glory and Canada gets the benefit then I say thank you USA!

I do find the American Sunday morning political shows very informative. I like to hear directly from Americans their view of the world and the state of their nation rather then snippets of information on anonymous bulletin boards.

On September 22, 1776, Nathan Hale, the American soldier patriot stood on the gallows and announced "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Since that time, the Americans have been trying to emulate him and expanding Arlington Cemetery every year. If during that process it saves Canadian lives then I say thank you - again.

Good for America.

God Bless America !!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

.....I do find the American Sunday morning political shows very informative. I like to hear directly from Americans their view of the world and the state of their nation rather then snippets of information on anonymous bulletin boards.

On September 22, 1776, Nathan Hale, the American soldier patriot stood on the gallows and announced "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Since that time, the Americans have been trying to emulate him and expanding Arlington Cemetery every year. If during that process it saves Canadian lives then I say thank you - again.

Thank you for your support and interest in American Sunday morning television programming. In addition to network productions of panel discussions by crack analysts for the the pressing issues of the day, you will also find a wide variety of infomercials and religious programming dedicated to increasing our faith in commerce and God.

History tells us that some Canadians are not satisfied with merely watching American TV, and they seek more direct involvement in the exciting action and adventure not readily available in Canada. We welcome these brave souls and encourage them to be all they can be in defense of Liberty, even in death. In turn, Canada has long recognized Americans lost in its war to preserve God, Throne, and The Commonwealth (see Cross of Sacrifice at Arlington National Cemetery).

Perhaps your British brethren say it best:

God save the Queen!

Send her victorious,

Happy and glorious,

Long to reign over us,

God save the Queen.

We can defeat the terrible scourge that is ISIS....together....with American programming and our TV remotes.

Edited August 25, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Jim Brown]

So much for the "stability and democracy in Iraq" that Dubya promised would follow his needless invasion.

[Big Guy]

...

History tells us that some Canadians are not satisfied with merely watching American TV, and they seek more direct involvement in the exciting action and adventure not readily available in Canada. We welcome these brave souls and encourage them to be all they can be in defense of Liberty, even in death. In turn, Canada has long recognized Americans lost in its war to preserve God, Throne, and The Commonwealth (see Cross of Sacrifice at Arlington National Cemetery).

...

Thank you for an explanation for your view of Canadian attitude towards seeking “more direct involvement in the exciting action and adventure not readily available in Canada.” We had first ignored the American lead in Iraq but did decide on some “exciting action” in Afghanistan – at the request of the USA. That did not go very well for Canadians and we decided that perhaps the Americans should be allowed to finish what they started and let them bask in the glory of that victory.

I do agree with you that Americans and Canadians may have different attitudes and approaches to war and its consequences. I see where soon in Washington, there will be unveiled and celebrated the new “American Veterans Disabled for Life Memorial”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Veterans_Disabled_for_Life_Memorial

It appears that the Americans have decided to spend about $100 million celebrating and memorializing the approx 3 million disabled for life veterans of the various wars. Fortunately, whatever money Canadians have available for veterans goes directly to the veterans.

I really do not understand that Americans want to be reminded that there are now about 3 million Americans who went to war, were injured and are now unable to finance their own lives. Considering the results of Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria et al, one would think that that they would not want to be reminded of those expeditions of “exciting action and adventure”.

But maybe something good will come of it.

Perhaps after seeing that new memorial the Americans will think twice about trying to cover the globe with the old red, white and blue.

Perhaps not.

God Bless America!

[bush_cheney2004]

...I really do not understand that Americans want to be reminded that there are now about 3 million Americans who went to war, were injured and are now unable to finance their own lives. Considering the results of Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria et al, one would think that that they would not want to be reminded of those expeditions of “exciting action and adventure”.

Thank you for your continued interest in all the ways that Americans express their love of life and liberty. Of course, there are some limitations to getting a full understanding of such things by consuming American Sunday morning news programming, as a more immersive experience is usually required. Absent from your list are earlier campaigns resulting in far more death and injury, but perhaps these are quite acceptable in service to the wishes of your monarch and the Commonwealth.

American volunteers are more than happy to engage the ISIS enemy however defined, with the same zeal and commitment displayed by Canadian Forces doing their duty for God and country. $100 million is a very small price to pay for a lasting reminder of their service and sacrifice.

Precision bombing...together...God Save the Queen !

[Big Guy]

... Of course, there are some limitations to getting a full understanding of such things by consuming American Sunday morning news programming, as a more immersive experience is usually required. Absent from your list are earlier campaigns resulting in far more death and injury, but perhaps these are quite acceptable in service to the wishes of your monarch and the Commonwealth.

American volunteers are more than happy to engage the ISIS enemy however defined, with the same zeal and commitment displayed by Canadian Forces doing their duty for God and country. $100 million is a very small price to pay for a lasting reminder of their service and sacrifice.

Precision bombing...together...God Save the Queen !

Thank you for your continued interest in my views. It is a pleasure to converse with someone so informed of American history and opinion. Do you visit often?

I do not pretend to be an expert on the USA. I am not even an expert on Canada so my views are restricted to those gleaned from a few history books and that stuff between commercials on Sunday Mornings. I am not certain what your suggestion of “immersive experience” entails but hope that it does not include immersing ones head in the sand to avoid the reality of the waste and carnage associated with much of the American foreign policy.

I continue to have nothing but respect, congratulations and thanks for what the USA stands for. It is best captured in 1814 by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet Francis Scott Key after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry by British ships of the Royal Navy in the Chesapeake Bay during the Battle of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812.

I see on television before every professional sports game how everybody stands up, takes off their hats and reminisces about those grand rockets red glare and bombs bursting in air. Just gives you goose bumps – doesn't it. I have even heard it sung all the way through to the last part:

Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land

Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.

Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,

And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."

I now understand that if God is on your side then I guess conquer we must. But I wish the Americans would take a little more time figuring our “when our cause it is just”.

But you can never go wrong with “In God is our trust”!

I can see why God blesses America.

[bush_cheney2004]

Thank you for your continued interest in my views. It is a pleasure to converse with someone so informed of American history and opinion. Do you visit often?

....I see on television before every professional sports game how everybody stands up, takes off their hats and reminisces about those grand rockets red glare and bombs bursting in air. Just gives you goose bumps – doesn't it. I have even heard it sung all the way through to the last part:

It is indeed a pleasure to exchange views and perspectives with someone so keen to understand American history and present day motivations to continue down the exact same bloody path. The U.S. is a nation born of war, expanded in war, and sustained by war....even against itself. It is little wonder that such a war-like culture would celebrate and memorialize the battles and traditions that liberated the nation from tyranny and a monarch with the world's largest hat collection.

As you have astutely noted, "God" just works for us in so many ways....from violent pigskin contests to a single Lincoln cent on a Mars rover. Wherever Americans find themselves, God is there to make sure we keep the faith. From the good book we learn:

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

If for any reason there is ever a Sunday news/media blackout for our Canadian friends across the border, rest assured that we will be doing the right thing, and that means putting ordnance on target. We shall see if ISIS is greater than America's GOD.

[Big Guy]

It is indeed a pleasure .... America's GOD.

It has also been a pleasure on this end. Thank you for the history lessons and an explanation of the feelings of those 300,000,000 fine citizens of the USA. You must certainly be well read.

Finally, I do hope the ordnance that the USA will be releasing is not at a target in Canada.

Remember, aim twice, shoot once!

[bush_cheney2004]

....Finally, I do hope the ordnance that the USA will be releasing is not at a target in Canada.

Remember, aim twice, shoot once!

Rest assured that the spirit and faith of Canada resides in America's weapons magazines and launchers around the world, from depleted uranium kinetic energy munitions to weapons grade plutonium used in thermonuclear warheads, God's ultimate vengeance weapon.

Remember to look away from the bright flash !

[Big Guy]

Rest assured that the spirit and faith of Canada resides in America's weapons magazines and launchers around the world, from depleted uranium kinetic energy munitions to weapons grade plutonium used in thermonuclear warheads, God's ultimate vengeance weapon.

Remember to look away from the bright flash !

Hope for your sake that your God is stronger than that other God.

Thanks for the advice, I do remember in school watching Bert giving us advice. He is still doing it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqXu-5jw60

Thanks for taking the time for this very informative exchange of brilliance but I can no longer spend any more time on this electronic communication. There are other problems to solve and I have to get back to my work on solving the Hodge conjecture.

Looking forward to our next discussion.

[jbg]

Reading some of the posts in this thread, especially by Rue, who has a difficult time recognizing and understanding the different groups involved in the Middle East, I thought I would share the following article where it makes it clear that ISIS and Hamas are not the same:

If they're doing nothing to advance the well-being of their people I really don't care about the "different groups."

[jbg]

So much for the "stability and democracy" Dubya said would follow his needless invasion of Iraq.

So much for the "stability and democracy in Iraq" that Dubya promised would follow his needless invasion.

Any similarities? (I made a matching post)

[GostHacked]

The drones are now being used in Syria to fight ISIS. As some predicted here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28935590

US President Barack Obama has authorised surveillance flights over Syria in order to gain intelligence on the activities of Islamic State (IS).

Correspondents say the move could mark the first step towards US air strikes inside Syria, where the jihadist group controls vast swathes of territory.

The US is already carrying out strikes against IS in neighbouring Iraq.

On Monday, the Syrian government said it would work with the international community in the fight against IS.

Western governments have so far rejected suggestions that they collaborate with President Bashar al-Assad in an attempt to counter the growing regional threat posed by IS.

They have repeatedly called on Mr Assad to step down since the beginning of the three-and-a-half year uprising against his rule, in which more than 191,000 people are believed to have been killed

[Big Guy]

I was watching another discussion by "experts" on the ISIS phenomena. There was agreement that the core were from the Saddam Republican Guard, an elite Sunni military unit (about 75,000 strong) which mysteriously "disappeared" when the Americans went in. Apparently they are not only well trained but the old command structure and their local knowledge give them an advantage in their back yard.

It was also suggested that when the American trained Iraqi soldiers recognized them for what they were, the old fears of the Republican Guard resurfaced and most of them dropped their armaments and ran. Some were offered positions in the new ISIL army and were recruited.

The new "Islamic State" (as it is now frequently referred to) got financing ($billions) from stolen American cash and weapons from the Iraqi army initially. They can now afford to purchase their own weapons. Apparently they now have a steady stream of financing since they are now selling oil from their captured oil wells and refineries to third parties around the world.

One suggestion as to how to weaken them was that the West bomb their oil fields. What a ludicrous picture - American, Canadian, British etc airplanes bombing oil fields and refineries in Iraq, Syria and Libya. Who are the good guys and the bad guys?

The West now has no idea who to bomb, who are friends, who are enemies, who to blame, or what to do next.

The rest of Europe has no interest in getting involved in that deadly confusion and wondering why some of their citizens are leaving to fight for the New Islamic State. They are spending their time trying to figure out how to differentiate between the good guys and the bad guys in their own countries and how to keep potential saboteurs out.

For years Western military expeditions have caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents in "collateral damage" and now the USA and Canada and England and ... still wring their hands and wonder why these people don't like them.

We have opened a Pandora's Box of Arabic nationalism. It is going to be very difficult, expensive and bloody to try to close it again.

[bush_cheney2004]

We have opened a Pandora's Box of Arabic nationalism. It is going to be very difficult, expensive and bloody to try to close it again.

Yawn....been there...done that. See Nasser and Pan-Arabism from over 50 years ago. This too will pass....

[Keepitsimple]

We have opened a Pandora's Box of Arabic nationalism. It is going to be very difficult, expensive and bloody to try to close it again.

If there's a Pandora's box - it has nothing to do with Nationalism and everything to do with Islamist Extremist domination. These terrorists know no country and will kill anyone - Muslims included - who does not subjegate themselves to their vile ideology. Convert or die. Our way or the graveyand.

[Big Guy]

I believe that it is too simplistic to try to write off the anti-West sentiment and the success of the anti-West movement in the Arab world as some kind of generic malfunction, religious fanaticism or cultural mania. It is also a mistake.

The Americans (and Canadians) continue to declare themselves as “surprised” at the turmoil and anti-West violence. I find that hard to believe. When you invade sovereign nations, indiscriminately kill innocent women and children and excuse the murders as “collateral damage” while destabilizing the nation then how do we think the population will react?

Does anybody really think that the average Arab is better off in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya and surrounding nations is better off than he/she was before our “expeditions” into their nations?

The common excuse I hear and see on this board is that there is something wrong with THEM. “They” are somehow not like us. “They” do not cry or feel pain when their children, wives, husbands and/or parents are blown up. “They” are not outraged or demand justice for the indiscriminate killing or friends. “They” are used to hunger and illness and are not bothered by being searched and ordered around in their own neighbourhood by fully armoured Western soldiers.

“They” are just like us. They love, hate, bleed and cry.

The first step in subjugating a society is to dehumanize them. There are a few posters on this board who are doing a pretty good job in that regard. Western governments have also done a good job by labelling anyone who disagrees with them as “terrorists” and we all know that terrorists are all crazy!

If you accept that “these people” are just like is then you can begin to understand why they hate us.

"Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster." Sun Tzu

Edited September 2, 2014 by Big Guy

[bush_cheney2004]

....Does anybody really think that the average Arab is better off in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya and surrounding nations is better off than he/she was before our “expeditions” into their nations?

Yes, as it depends on which "Arab" nation you are referring to. American/Western "culture" enjoys wide popularity in Arab nations, despite direct conflicts with some Islamic Fundamentalists, but that is true for religious fundies in Canada and the U.S. as well. Several Arab nations host American military bases because the cost-benefit analysis favors catering to mutual interests in the region (e.g. Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE).

"Arabs" are not a monolithic block with identical interests and beliefs. BTW, Afghans are not Arabs.

[On Guard for Thee]

I believe that it is too simplistic to try to write off the anti-West sentiment and the success of the anti-West movement in the Arab world as some kind of generic malfunction, religious fanaticism or cultural mania. It is also a mistake.

The Americans (and Canadians) continue to declare themselves as “surprised” at the turmoil and anti-West violence. I find that hard to believe. When you invade sovereign nations, indiscriminately kill innocent women and children and excuse the murders as “collateral damage” while destabilizing the nation then how do we think the population will react?

Does anybody really think that the average Arab is better off in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya and surrounding nations is better off than he/she was before our “expeditions” into their nations?

The common excuse I hear and see on this board is that there is something wrong with THEM. “They” are somehow not like us. “They” do not cry or feel pain when their children, wives, husbands and/or parents are blown up. “They” are not outraged or demand justice for the indiscriminate killing or friends. “They” are used to hunger and illness and are not bothered by being searched and ordered around in their own neighbourhood by fully armoured Western soldiers.

“They” are just like us. They love, hate, bleed and cry.

The first step in subjugating a society is to dehumanize them. There are a few posters on this board who are doing a pretty good job in that regard. Western governments have also done a good job by labelling anyone who disagrees with them as “terrorists” and we all know that terrorists are all crazy!

If you accept that “these people” are just like is then you can begin to understand why they hate us.

"Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster." Sun Tzu

If you actually believe that Isis is "just like us" then I just have one question: what planet do you live on? The one I live on has churchs, various stripes. It also has mosques. I can go to all of them if I want, or none of them if I want. My head will very likely remain firmly attached to my neck regardless.

[Bonam]

If you actually believe that Isis is "just like us" then I just have one question: what planet do you live on?

Hey, if someone says that a monster capable of cutting off someone's head for having a different religion is "just like him", then I'd rather take the safe approach and take that person at their word.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hey, if someone says that a monster capable of cutting off someone's head for having a different religion is "just like him", then I'd rather take the safe approach and take that person at their word.

At least avoid riding on a Greyhound bus with that person.

[Bonam]

At least avoid riding on a Greyhound bus with that person.

Excellent advice.

[-1=e^ipi]

We have opened a Pandora's Box of Arabic nationalism. It is going to be very difficult, expensive and bloody to try to close it again.

How do you misunderstand what is going on in the Middle East this badly?

Arab Nationalism was relevant in the second half of the 20th century, especially in the 60s, 70s and 80s. What do you think the Ba'ath Party is?

Sadam Hussein, Bashar Al-Assad and Hosni Mubarak are all Arab Nationalists.

Arab nationalism is in decline. To suggest that the growing threat of ISIS or the Arab spring are a result of Arab nationalism is to suggest something that is very far from the truth. ISIS and other Islamist groups (like the Muslim Brotherhood) reject nationalism completely. These groups want to abolish borders and nations in order to unite the entire world under a global caliphate.