This week in Islam

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yes but what was posted would be worth debating.

Usually with unmitigated glee.

You can't stop people having certain views when it comes to religion, no matter how barbaric they are. As long as they are aware they are considered barbaric,  and they don't actually don't act on them, it's okay for them to hold abhorrent views.

Remember the old I disagree with what you say bit.  It still applies, I hope

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You can't stop people having certain views when it comes to religion, no matter how barbaric they are. As long as they are aware they are considered barbaric,  and they don't actually don't act on them, it's okay for them to hold abhorrent views.

If a man from Afghanistan holds those abhorrent views, he will most likely hold them over the people in his family, his wife and daughters. What about that then?

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You can't stop people having certain views when it comes to religion, no matter how barbaric they are.

You certainly can in a place like this.

Quote

 

Remember the old I disagree with what you say bit.  It still applies, I hope

 

Why do that when you can apply alternative facts?

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

If a man from Afghanistan holds those abhorrent views, he will most likely hold them over the people in his family, his wife and daughters. What about that then?

He can hold them over me if he likes.  As long as he doesn't do anything about it. 

If he does, with any luck, he'll be jailed and then deported.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You certainly can in a place like this.

Why do that when you can apply alternative facts?

I'm sorry, I meant in the general, freedom of speech, sense.  I realise there are people who would restrict views with which they disagree.

Alternative facts are still good, as long as they are still facts.

Edited May 28, 2019 by bcsapper
Men never discuss evil so completely and cheerfully as when they talk about their religious conviction - Not Blaise Pascal

[Goddess]

https://dianebederman.com/what-happens-when-governments-and-police-fear-islam/?fbclid=IwAR2qJEIxoj3j6bqX8ewhD-mAfavmX0NTil4QxQ0mnE3NkkXX0Rn_o2Q-tUY

Bederman blog on this past Saturday's Al Qud hatefest in Toronto

 

Quote

The #IslamophobiaIndustry at work in our communities.

 

[Rue]

On 5/27/2019 at 9:15 PM, bcsapper said:

I'm sorry, I meant in the general, freedom of speech, sense.  I realise there are people who would restrict views with which they disagree.

Alternative facts are still good, as long as they are still facts.

I get your argument. You are trying to defend free speech and religion. I get that. I also know you get that condonation through silence of extremist views can enable them to grow and spread and eventually be acted out. I have read enough of your posts to know you see the difficulty in balancing the two and we all do.

Its a hard one BC, protecting basic democratic fundamental freedoms without them being used as trojan horses to slip in extremist views to incite and recruit extremists.

I think BC myself, I have concerns with politicians who pander to extremists in ethnic communities to get their vote. I think Trudeau has done that repeatedly.

Some argue the Conservatives do it with right wing extremists.

To be balanced I will say politicians in general will pander for ethnic votes and not be opposed to using extremists in these communities to do so.

 

 

[scribblet]

Wonder how India feels about this one

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/islamic-state-claims-province-india-wilayah-of-hind-kashmir-1522610-2019-05-11

The Islamic State (IS) claimed for the first time that it has established a "province" in India, after a clash between militants and security forces in Kashmir killed a militant with alleged ties to the group.

IS's Amaq News Agency late on Friday announced the new province, that it called "Wilayah of Hind", in a statement that also claimed IS inflicted casualties on Indian army soldiers in the town of Amshipora in the Shopian district of Kashmir.

The IS statement corresponds with an Indian police statement on Friday that a militant called Ishfaq Ahmad Sofi was killed in an encounter in Shopian, Jammu and Kashmir.

ALSO READ | In 48 years, South Asia has emerged as hotbed for terror attacks

IS's statement establishing the new province appears to be designed to bolster its standing after the group was driven from its self-styled "caliphate" in Iraq and Syria in April, where at one point it controlled thousands of miles of territory.

snip

"The world may roll its eyes at these developments, but to jihadists in these vulnerable regions, these are significant gestures to help lay the groundwork in rebuilding the map of the IS 'caliphate'."

[Michael Hardner]

https://globalnews.ca/news/5360274/muslim-hate-crime-canada/

Quote

 

Statistics Canada also reported a 47 per cent rise in police-reported hate crimes between 2016 and 2017. During the period, Muslim-related incidents went up by 151 per cent, while incidents against Jews also surged by 63 per cent.

What group attacks Muslims AND Jews ?

[Goddess]

On 6/15/2019 at 6:06 PM, Michael Hardner said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/5360274/muslim-hate-crime-canada/

What group attacks Muslims AND Jews ?

What makes you assume that it's "one group" attacking both Muslims & Jews?

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

What makes you assume that it's "one group" attacking both Muslims & Jews?

I feel it's primarily one group.  The biggest nearby attacks of late were the Pittsburgh Synagogue and the Mosque in Quebec.

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I feel it's primarily one group.  The biggest nearby attacks of late were the Pittsburgh Synagogue and the Mosque in Quebec.

You need to think more globally.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Goddess said:

You need to think more globally.

Well, ok, I guess your point is that there aren't so many white supremacists in Israel or Iraq ?  I concur.

[Goddess]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well, ok, I guess your point is that there aren't so many white supremacists in Israel or Iraq ?  I concur.

It's not white supremacists driving Jews out of France and other European countries, either.

[dialamah]

19 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You need to think more globally.

Given he was specifically speaking about Canada, I don't see how that's relevant.  

And if we are thinking "more globally", why don't we care about all the Muslim victims in China and India?   Or the Muslims in Iraq, Syria, etc., who've been killed by Western powers and Western weapons?   

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It's not white supremacists driving Jews out of France and other European countries, either.

So we were discussing Statistics Canada and now we're talking about France.  Ok then.

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It's not white supremacists driving Jews out of France and other European countries, either.

Are you sure?

Quote

Police in France have broken up a neo-Nazi cell suspected of planning attacks on Jews and Muslims at their respective places of worship, legal sources in the country have revealed.

 

[Goddess]

34 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Are you sure?

 

Oh, you're right.  I should ignore all the articles and books and news articles and the disgusting Al Qud Rallies held all over the world, and the churches and synagogues being burned all over the world and Christians dying at the  hands of Muslims, the bombings, the beheadings, the burning people alive, the imams caught spreading anti-semitism in every Western country they're allowed into, etc, etc, etc   

Your one incident  of a Neo-Nazi group who were shut down by police, with no cite given, has totally  convinced me that anti-semitism is not a problem in Islam. 

Please be sure to post that quote - wherever it's from - somewhere all the French Jews can see it, so they know it's not Muslims who are attacking and killing them and driving them out of France.  They will be so grateful to you for setting them straight on who is really brutalizing them. Definitely not your Muslims, right?  Totally innocent, lovers of Jews.  Muslims are the real victims to you - ALWAYS.  Yah, we got it, Dia.

Of course, you will find something wrong with the source of this article because it's not flattering to Muslims, so therefore a stupid source.  Jews naming their own attackers? That's not allowed in your pro-Islam worldview.

https://www.jta.org/2019/05/01/global/french-jews-say-officials-are-reluctant-to-call-out-anti-semitism-by-muslims

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Goddess

[dialamah]

28 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Oh, you're right.  I should ignore all the articles and books and news articles and the disgusting Al Qud Rallies held all over the world, and the churches and synagogues being burned all over the world and Christians dying at the  hands of Muslims, the bombings, the beheadings, the burning people alive, the imams caught spreading anti-semitism in every Western country they're allowed into, etc, etc, etc   

Your one incident  of a Neo-Nazi group who were shut down by police, with no cite given, has totally  convinced me that anti-semitism is not a problem in Islam. 

Please be sure to post that quote - wherever it's from - somewhere all the French Jews can see it, so they know it's not Muslims who are attacking and killing them and driving them out of France.  They will be so grateful to you for setting them straight on who is really brutalizing them. Definitely not your Muslims, right?  Totally innocent, lovers of Jews.  Muslims are the real victims to you - ALWAYS.  Yah, we got it, Dia.

Of course, you will find something wrong with the source of this article because it's not flattering to Muslims, so therefore a stupid source.  Jews naming their own attackers? That's not allowed in your pro-Islam worldview.

https://www.jta.org/2019/05/01/global/french-jews-say-officials-are-reluctant-to-call-out-anti-semitism-by-muslims

 

Awww, did I poke a hole in your "Muslims are bad" rhetoric?

[Goddess]

Just now, dialamah said:

Awww, did I poke a hole in your "Muslims are bad" rhetoric?

You used a quote with  no cite to deny that there is anti-semitism in Islam, in direct contradiction to facts, so.......

No, you didn't.

[dialamah]

22 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You used a quote with  no cite

No, you didn't.

The cite is embedded here:

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Are you sure?

 All you gotta do is click on it.

Quote

to deny that there is anti-semitism in Islam, in direct contradiction to facts, so.......

I didn't deny anything of the sort; you are lying again.  All I did was point out that it's not as simple as 'Muslims are driving Jews out of France and Europe".  That you chose to pretend I said something entirely different is on you.

Here's more information demonstrating that there is more to the story than "Muslims bad!"

Poway attack illustrates danger of right-wing extremists to Jews and Muslims.

Jews, Muslims targets of European racist hatred.

Right wing extremist attacks growing.

Islamic terror threat decreasing.

Now, just to make it clear:  I think many Muslims are anti-Semitic.  Just as many white people are anti-Muslim.  Hate is hate, whether felt by a Muslim against Jews, or a Canadian against Muslims.  Pretending Muslims are worse than any others is deliberate blindness.  "Ism", hatred and extremism needs to be called out wherever it shows up.

Edited June 17, 2019 by dialamah

[Goddess]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Pretending Muslims are worse than any others is deliberate blindness.

From what I've read and the news coming out of Europe - Muslims are worse for anti-semitism than others.  It's deliberate blindness to say otherwise.  Hatred of Jews is codified in the Quran and taught openly in mosques.  And no, I am not saying ALL Muslims hate Jews.  But how are Jews generally  treated in Muslim countries?  And please don't fall back on the victim-blaming - that Jews deserve to be massacred by Muslims because of some 2000 year old wrong apparently committed.

 

14 minutes ago, dialamah said:

hatred and extremism needs to be called out wherever it shows up.

......except when it shows up in Islam, right?  Then we come on a thread talking about the problem of anti-semitism in Islam and insist that it doesn't exist except in tiny  normal (?) quantities, nothing to be concerned about, according to you.

If you did choose to face the Truth about Islam - you would see that many are of the opinion that anti-semitism is growing in Europe because Muslims have brought it with them and awakened  and legitimized the sleeping anti-semitism in other groups, such as the Neo-Nazis.  

So while I will agree that some anti-semitism comes from that source, a LOT of anti-semitism comes from Muslim sources and the fact that you and MH are here to deny that is quite disgusting, IMO. 

[dialamah]

Just now, Goddess said:

a LOT of anti-semitism comes from Muslim sources and the fact that you and MH are here to deny that is quite disgusting, IMO. 

Whilst a lot of Islamophobia comes from you, DoP, Argus, and several others on here, but you never object to that.  Quite disgusting, IMO.

[DogOnPorch]

10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Whilst a lot of Islamophobia comes from you, DoP, Argus, and several others on here, but you never object to that.  Quite disgusting, IMO.

 

Islamophobia: a concept created by your Muslim Brotherhood to vilify anybody critical of Islam. You support this concept. De Facto Sharia Law...all criticism of Islam by the Unbeliever must be prohibited.

[dialamah]

35 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Islamophobia: a concept created by your Muslim Brotherhood to vilify anybody critical of Islam. You support this concept. De Facto Sharia Law...all criticism of Islam by the Unbeliever must be prohibited.

I'm critical of people who support ISIS interpretation of Islam, and reject any other interpretation.  Like you do.

Your "definition" of Islamophobia is just more of your lies.  Here's an actual definition.

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter if the killer calls themselves "Muslim" or "Protector of the White Race" or "Proud American", the same hatred and fear of "other" drives them.