Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[PIK]

And you guys believe trudeau. lol

[eyeball]

Not at all PIK, take Trudeau's promise of electoral reform for example.

[PIK]

It was reported today that the PBO has said at $9/gr the government will not even break a billion in taxes. And I would bet nothing happens till after the next election.

[eyeball]

If the government tries to compete a $9 a gram the bikers will still be in business for a very very long time.

[Boges]

Is that before or after the Excise Tax and HST?

And will that include the cost of marketing the new "rules". 

I don't trust the Feds will be able to get this right at all. 

[eyeball]

Thankfully we have bikers to keep things rational.

[Smallc]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Is that before or after the Excise Tax and HST?

And will that include the cost of marketing the new "rules". 

I don't trust the Feds will be able to get this right at all. 

Yes, that's an excellent argument for keeping the coffers of organized crime full.

[Boges]

45 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Yes, that's an excellent argument for keeping the coffers of organized crime full.

Well if the Feds price themselves out of the market, they'll jeep the coffers of organized full themselves. 

[Smallc]

If being the key word that you have no support for.

[meltdown66]

Absolutely no need to keep it illegal probably should at least be decriminalized...I see no reason for people to be burdened with a criminal record when alcohol is far more harmful and costly to society, not to mention opioid addiction/abuse currently running rampant. 

[?Impact]

On 11/1/2016 at 4:00 PM, eyeball said:

If the government tries to compete a $9 a gram the bikers will still be in business for a very very long time.

Average price in Colorado is $US7.65/gram ($217/oz). That is $CDN 10.34/gram 

[eyeball]

Before or after taxes? I guess I must still be living in la la land. Average here is about $5.50 - $6.00 CAN.

Edited November 19, 2016 by eyeball

[eyeball]

Legalization makes it more profitable...go figure.

Governments are probably kicking themselves for not cashing in sooner.

Edited November 19, 2016 by eyeball

[?Impact]

53 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Before or after taxes? I guess I must still be living in la la land. Average here is about $5.50 - $6.00 CAN.

Final retail price. Also note that smaller quantities are usually higher, the average I gave was for 1oz quantity. If you buy it in the I-70 corridor through the mountain resorts like Vail then it is also more expensive. Note I am using the high-quality pricing, medium quality is about 15-20% cheaper. Yes B.C. and Quebec are known for lower prices (about the only thing in Quebec that is better priced than elsewhere). What does seem a common theme however is street pricing is lower than dispensary pricing almost everywhere marijuana is legal. 

[overthere]

On 11/1/2016 at 2:08 PM, Boges said:

Is that before or after the Excise Tax and HST?

And will that include the cost of marketing the new "rules". 

I don't trust the Feds will be able to get this right at all. 

And lets not forget the hefty, new enforcement costs of 'legalization'.  The cops will have to redouble their efforts to catch the illegal growers.  I don't think the cops try very hard now, since growing, selling and smoking weed has been very easy in Canada for a couple of decades.  Ironically, they will have to spend far more time on this after 'legalization', which means more people going to jail- not less.  The existing industry will easily be able to compete with govt weed.  And that is a huge problem for all those levels of govt expecting to make money from this process.

 

Thej there is the other end of enforcement, one that does not exist today.  Every jurisdiction is going to have to have a new bureaucracy to check that every joint is 'official' weed, and a means to determine the difference between taxed weed and untaxed weed.

 

Another politlcal problem cometh for Justin.  How do you promote the use of govt weed only without two obvious nasty outcomes?  First, how can you advertise govt weed as opposed to untaxed weed without officially promoting drug use overall?  Second, how do you prevent shouts of hypocrisy when people still get sent to jail for  growing, selling or smoking what you just 'legalized'?

 

I think there are two reports on the process coming.  The public one will blither on as these reports do.  The short and sweet private one will be more to the point, and will have a summary of how Trudeau can get out of this nutcracker with the least political damage.

[?Impact]

52 minutes ago, overthere said:

which means more people going to jail- not less.

When did anyone go to jail for growing illegal tobacco?

[overthere]

4 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

When did anyone go to jail for growing illegal tobacco?

You are in the wrong thread.

 

More people must be going to jail or being penalized or be charged with crimes for weed related offences after 'legalization' of weed, and I just explained why.

[Wilber]

On 2016-11-19 at 10:16 AM, ?Impact said:

When did anyone go to jail for growing illegal tobacco?

No money in it but illegal booze on the other hand. Quite a few.

[eyeball]

Quote

 

Veterans Affairs Minister Kent Hehr plans to scale back the limit for reimbursement from 10 grams of medical marijuana per day to three. 

Story

 

I suppose $10 a gram adds up at these amounts alright.  That said I'm willing to bet the government is more than willing to shell out a lot more for drugs from big pharma.

Personally I've usually rolled my eyes at the medical-use route towards getting the state off people's backs but I'll give it credit for convincing gullible governments that people routinely need/use 5/10 grams a day - an amount that's enough to even turn chronics into zombies.  By the time they ever get around to legalizing recreational use they'll probably have rationalized dosages to fit the actual reality.  The six plant 'rule' that is commonly enacted where legalization for recreational use occurs is a good example.

How governments managed to figure this out should be obvious....there are probably lots of people working in government who use or grow or know someone who does.

I mean c'mon...10 grams a day? You'd have to be an idiot to imagine anyone but a handful of people are actually consuming anywhere near that amount. 

[Boges]

And there it is!!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-marijuana-report-to-urge-liberals-to-strike-at-the-black-market

Quote

 

The key recommendation of the panel charged with outlining the framework for Canada’s legal marijuana regime is that the system should be geared toward getting rid of the $7-billion-a year black market.

Sources familiar with the report, which is expected to be made public Dec. 21, say all the other recommendations flow from that guiding principle.

Provinces will set the legal age for marijuana consumption, but the report is likely to recommend the limit be the age of majority — 18 in six provinces; 19 in B.C., Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and the three territories — which would keep many young people from turning to criminal sources. (The Canadian Medical Association has recommended an age limit of 21, with limits on the quantity and potency.)

To eat into the black market, the report is expected to recommend prices should be lower than the street price of $8-$10 a gram. This would reduce the amount of tax revenues available to federal and provincial governments but would be justified by the principle of guaranteeing a safe and controlled supply.

Is it a great look to increase enforcement of pot laws so that anyone selling or consuming cannabis that isn't approved by Health Canada or Duty Paid is subject to fines or other even criminal charges? Imagine the increased cost of enforcing those laws as opposed to the current status quo? 

So the other option is to undercut the black market. GREAT!!!! Make the mind alternating drug cheaper, that certainly goes in the face of social responsibility doesn't it? And can't the black market further lower its price? 

This is a Catch 22 that will make pot legalization a nightmare for governments involved. It certainly won't lead to the cash cow people expect. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Boges

[?Impact]

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

This is a Catch 22 that will make pot legalization a nightmare for governments involved. It certainly won't lead to the cash cow people expect. 

The cash cow will come from reduced crime and enforcement. There is a lot of criminal activity associated with distribution of marijuana, take away that opportunity and the costs associated with it will go away. I expect we will come out way ahead.

Yes, responsible consumption of cannabis is always a problem. Availability has never been an issue, so will making it legal have any effect (positive or negative) on responsible use?

[Boges]

28 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

The cash cow will come from reduced crime and enforcement. There is a lot of criminal activity associated with distribution of marijuana, take away that opportunity and the costs associated with it will go away. I expect we will come out way ahead.

No it won't! Not unless the government undercuts it. 

It's stated simply the leaked report that this system will only work if the black market is ELIMINATED. 

So that's either done through INCREASED enforcement or pricing the competition out of business. 

Comparisons to Alcohol and Tobacco and how the government already has a stranglehold on those things (not so much with tobacco actually) isn't apples to apples. There's already a robust black market that exists with pot. They aren't just gonna pass the reins to the government for the good of the country. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Boges

[eyeball]

Quote

The key recommendation of the panel charged with outlining the framework for Canada’s legal marijuana regime is that the system should be geared toward getting rid of the $7-billion-a year black market.

There's your Big Pot lobby at work...f*#kers.

Quote

The Liberals promised to legalize pot in their election platform as a public safety issue, to keep marijuana out of the hands of children and to cut off profits to organized crime.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions this had anything to do with keeping the state of people's backs...its not like being Liberal has anything to do with liberty...there's your Conservative lobby at work I guess.

This is the black market the Liberals and the people lobbying them intend to do away with. Valued at as much as $7 billion where workers are paid between $20 - $30 an hour...

Quote

“The type of industry that’s grown under the black market is very much a craft industry, so if we lose that craft industry, the big question for us is, ‘What will be the outcome on our local economy?’ Everyone predicts that it will be negative,” she said. - See more at: http://news.nationalpost.com/features/o-cannabis-corporate-cannabis#sthash.6lFVUNmt.dpuf

BC's economy stands to take a big kick in the teeth if Liberals get their way.  Hopefully the NDP will make this an important election issue out of this...let Christy Clarke defend Ottawa Liberals.

[?Impact]

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

BC's economy stands to take a big kick in the teeth if Liberals get their way.  Hopefully the NDP will make this an important election issue out of this...let Christy Clarke defend Ottawa Liberals.

Wrong, the only economy that will take a kick in the teeth is the criminal black market. If BC has the best climate, then it will continue to be a lucrative legal farming economy. If competitors jump in, then so be it. I suspect the indoor competitors will be large, but today they are numerous and cause significant damage to the residential real-estate market.

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Wrong, the only economy that will take a kick in the teeth is the criminal black market. 

Only if we have a new war on the drug to put them out of business or price the product so low that it ceases to be profitable.