Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Omni said:

I think most of us would rather pay the cost and know what we are getting won't make us blind or kill us.

Is that a concern of people who currently purchase cannabis in the black market? Unlike with Alcohol, which has to be produced and aged, cannabis is a naturally occurring plant. 

From what I hear, the concern is that the cannabis that the government will peddle will suck. 

In Ontario many smokers travel to First Nations Reserves to purchase black market cigarettes without concern of quality. I'm sure they'll try that with Legal MJ. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Boges

[Omni]

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

Is that a concern of people who currently purchase cannabis in the black market? 

From what I hear, the concern is that the cannabis that the government will peddle will suck. 

In Ontario many smokers travel to First Nations Reserves to purchase black market cigarettes without concern of quality. I'm sure they'll try that with Legal MJ. 

It should be a concern as THC levels vary and CBD's are being bred out, which is what you need if you are using pot for medical reasons. Bottom line, you don't know what you are getting from the black market.

[Boges]

8 minutes ago, Omni said:

It should be a concern as THC levels vary and CBD's are being bred out, which is what you need if you are using pot for medical reasons. Bottom line, you don't know what you are getting from the black market.

But Medical MJ is already legalized. We're talking recreational pot where THC is the goal. 

I thought no one was ever killed using pot? If you get a shitty batch, don't use that guy again. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Boges

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

But Medical MJ is already legalized. We're talking recreational pot where THC is the goal. 

I thought no one was ever killed using pot? If you get a shitty batch, don't use that guy again. 

And there's the whole idea: regulate the production and you shouldn't have to worry about a shitty batch.

[Boges]

26 minutes ago, Omni said:

And there's the whole idea: regulate the production and you shouldn't have to worry about a shitty batch.

And pay a lot more for it.

I'm sure many are perfectly happy where and how they currently obtain cannabis, laws be damned.

I love how we're supposed to respect regulations and pay taxes like good boys and girls when we've been ignoring a criminal code law for a long, long time.

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

And pay a lot more for it.

I'm sure many are perfectly happy where and how they currently obtain cannabis, laws be damned.

I love how we're supposed to respect regulations and pay taxes like good boys and girls when we've been ignoring a criminal code law for a long, long time.

Tell that to the tens of thousands of Canadians who get busted for ignoring that law each year and now can't find a job or cross the border.

[Boges]

8 minutes ago, Omni said:

Tell that to the tens of thousands of Canadians who get busted for ignoring that law each year and now can't find a job or cross the border.

Will people be further busted from selling that product outside of the future regulations or GASP!!!! growing their own? 

[Omni]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Will people be further busted from selling that product outside of the future regulations or GASP!!!! growing their own? 

I make my own wine from time to time. Perfectly legal as long as I don't sell it or give it to minors.

[Boges]

Just now, Omni said:

I make my own wine from time to time. Perfectly legal as long as I don't sell it or give it to minors.

It'll be interesting to see if the legalization model we get next year will allow people to grow their own as well. 

[Omni]

12 minutes ago, Boges said:

It'll be interesting to see if the legalization model we get next year will allow people to grow their own as well. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they are. Medical pot can already be grown at home.

[Smallc]

Boges, none of that is an excuse for avoiding regulation or legalization.  Guns are legal and regulated, and sold on the black market.  Should we ban guns?!

[Boges]

Where have I ever called for banning of cannabis? 

I'm just pointing out the problem with how the government is handling this file. With so many years of effective decriminalization, I highly doubt that the black market will disappear because the Liberals want it to without WAY!!! more enforcement than we've seen. Therefore the cash cow that was promised won't exist. 

Especially if the government prices their product a lot higher than street pricing. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Boges

[Omni]

14 minutes ago, Boges said:

Where have I ever called for banning of cannabis? 

I'm just pointing out the problem with how the government is handling this file. With so many years of effective decriminalization, I highly doubt that the black market will disappear because the Liberals want it to without WAY!!! more enforcement than we've seen. Therefore the cash cow that was promised won't exist. 

Especially if the government prices their product a lot higher than street pricing. 

Washington State seems happy with their cash cow.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-23/washington-expects-pot-sales-tax-revenue-surge-to-1-billion

[Boges]

53 minutes ago, Omni said:

Washington State seems happy with their cash cow.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-23/washington-expects-pot-sales-tax-revenue-surge-to-1-billion

Any comparison to a US jurisdiction isn't Apples to Apples as they already have a much less regulated approach to alcohol and tobacco and far less taxation.

The goal for a Province like Ontario is to control 100% of the distribution. They even may have it sold at the Government owned Liqour Stores. Totally different model. 

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

Any comparison to a US jurisdiction isn't Apples to Apples as they already have a much less regulated approach to alcohol and tobacco and far less taxation.

The goal for a Province like Ontario is to control 100% of the distribution. They even may have it sold at the Government owned Liqour Stores. Totally different model. 

What's so different? You sell a product and collect tax from the sale. And very likely if it comes through a gov. store you know what you're getting. I think Ontario for instance has a population about 3 x that of Wa., state and a billion here or there could help offsetting their electricity costs.

[Boges]

If you've ever tried to buy alcohol in many US states, you know the difference. You can't buy a beer in anything but a government approved store in Ontario. 

People who are used to paying far less in a way they're perfectly comfortable with will now be told, you go here and pay this. I just don't think it's going to work. 

The issue of price is a big one. Leaked info says the government could potentially charge up to $15/gram. Even if it's around $10, it'll be easy for the black market to massively undercut them. 

 

[Omni]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

If you've ever tried to buy alcohol in many US states, you know the difference. You can't buy a beer in anything but a government approved store in Ontario. 

People who are used to paying far less in a way they're perfectly comfortable with will now be told, you go here and pay this. I just don't think it's going to work. 

The issue of price is a big one. Leaked info says the government could potentially charge up to $15/gram. Even if it's around $10, it'll be easy for the black market to massively undercut them. 

 

Again, I'm sure a bootlegger could sell you bath tub gin a lot cheaper than you can buy it in the government approved outlet, but how many people do that any more. Where I live most of the non government stores are more expensive than the government ones. 

[Boges]

14 minutes ago, Omni said:

Again, I'm sure a bootlegger could sell you bath tub gin a lot cheaper than you can buy it in the government approved outlet, but how many people do that any more. Where I live most of the non government stores are more expensive than the government ones. 

Because the government has a monopoly on the distribution. They've started selling beer and wine in select grocery stores in Ontario BUT they have to pay a huge fee and have to set the price higher than the government owned store. It's not a whole lot different than the mob when you think about it. 

You also can't compare Alcohol to a Plant that already had a profitable black market. 

People already produce good quality cannabis within a black market scenario. What does the government have to offer other than convenience? I guess for the casual person that may be enough. But for regular consumers, the status quo may be just fine.  

[Omni]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Because the government has a monopoly on the distribution. They've started selling beer and wine in select grocery stores in Ontario BUT they have to pay a huge fee and have to set the price higher than the government owned store. It's not a whole lot different than the mob when you think about it. 

You also can't compare Alcohol to a Plant that already had a profitable black market. 

People already produce good quality cannabis within a black market scenario. What does the government have to offer other than convenience? I guess for the casual person that may be enough. But for regular consumers, the status quo may be just fine.  

Well again, my main reason for supporting legal pot is because I don't want a lot of people, many of them young sitting in jail. And I think for instance if you sell it through a liquor store you hopefully can reduce the amount getting consumed by under aged people. If that costs the consumer more and at the same time provides a more predictable product I say well worth it.

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, Omni said:

Well again, my main reason for supporting legal pot is because I don't want a lot of people, many of them young sitting in jail. And I think for instance if you sell it through a liquor store you hopefully can reduce the amount getting consumed by under aged people. If that costs the consumer more and at the same time provides a more predictable product I say well worth it.

How do you eliminate the black market without throwing people in jail? That's what the most recent report says has to be done. 

It may be worth it for you. And even me, I'm not a pot head but I occasionally partake, so it's not worth my time to actually get to know a dealer. But I predict that the Black Market will still be quite healthy. 

We'll see I guess. If JT does get around to legalizing it and can't show a measurable revenue boost from it, I suspect he'll face a political price in 2019. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Boges

[Omni]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

How do you eliminate the black market without throwing people in jail? That's what the most recent report says has to be done. 

It may be worth it for you. And even me, I'm not a pot head but I occasionally partake so it's not worth my time to actually get to know a dealer. But I predict that the Black Market will still be quite healthy. 

We'll see I guess. If JT does get around to legalizing it and can't show a measurable revenue boost from it, I suspect he'll face a political price in 2019. 

You throw the people in jail who are illegally marketing the product, not the people who simply have a couple of joints on their person as they can, and do now. It may take some time, but I suspect the black market for pot would dry up just as it did for booze.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

You throw the people in jail who are illegally marketing the product, not the people who simply have a couple of joints on their person as they can, and do now. 

That's decriminalization, something JT should have done the nanosecond he got elected, but regardless that's pretty much how things are now. People don't generally get criminally charged for simple possession. In the US, different story. But that often has a racial element to it. 

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's decriminalization, something JT should have done the nanosecond he got elected, but regardless that's pretty much how things are now. People don't generally get criminally charged for simple possession. In the US, different story. But that often has a racial element to it. 

Yes he probably should have done that, and then followed up with the legalization he now proposes. It would have left a more level playing field instead of the current situation where if you are in caught in Kelowna your chances of getting charged are hugely higher than if you are caught in St. John's.

[Smallc]

That doesn't fit with their framing of the issue.

[?Impact]

So, let`s go ahead and legalize it and see how things develop. Proclaiming legalization will be a failure because there is a black market is just plain silly.