Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[?Impact]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

So all that money spent on this taskforce and no recommendations on pricing? What good is that? 

Do you want the government setting the price for bread as well? As far as I can see pricing is a market issue, not something that should be government regulated. Yes there will be taxation on the product, and that is something the government regulates but the base price should be market driven. I believe the recommendation was taxation based on THC level, which while not comprehensive is certainly the one of the key factors.

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Do you want the government setting the price for bread as well? As far as I can see pricing is a market issue, not something that should be government regulated. Yes there will be taxation on the product, and that is something the government regulates but the base price should be market driven. I believe the recommendation was taxation based on THC level, which while not comprehensive is certainly the one of the key factors.

Minimum pricing is set for Alcohol and Tobacco. And the LCBO sets the price of all products sold, and they're a government agency. 

An important factor in how this scheme will work is the estimated price per gram. It's seen that if it's more than $10/gram the black market will still have a huge advantage. 

 

[Rue]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎06 at 8:48 PM, Omni said:

As I've already opined, I suspect that the new legislation will allow you to grow your own weed similarly to how you can produce your own wine/beer for example. If I wish to go buy it, I would prefer a regulated Big Pot Corp. than a street vendor. 

Up to 4 plants per home.

[Rue]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎06 at 11:32 PM, eyeball said:

I was smoking tobacco at age 13 and I have emphesema.

If that's true I feel bad for you. My grandfather died from it. That's no joke man. That said people forget smoking marijhuana has risks to the respiratory system a lot of people think it doesn't negatively impact on the lungs like tobacco. It does..

When pot was legalized in Oregon what they did not anticipate was the sudden demand for pot through edible products. A  lot of people can't inhale and therefore smoke dope so they go for edibles. They have worked on a vapor spray ready to go. They are working on an ointment. They haven't found a way to put it in tablets. If edibles suddenly rise in popularity as they did in Oregon new food an health and safety regulations will have to keep up with it. Dehydrated products where possible are  the safest but let's see how they market edibles.

All that said here is what worries me:

1-this idea of placing a higher tax on higher thc potency to me sounds contradictory and I am not sure if it would work;

2-the cost of retraining police officers to measure and test people for THC intoxication while driving a vehicle is going to be there and hasn't been

accurately figured out;

3-car premiums may go up for everyone as technically anew risk factor that increases the likelihood of car accidents comes into play which triggers a premium

increase.

In regards to THC potency, someone growing natural weed is not a problem. The problem is the highly potent green house stuff spliced over the years. It has intense amounts of THC and the same factor that increases the THC intensity decreases the chemical that in milder pot produces the sedative effect. Highly potent THC dope causes nervous anxiety, can trigger violence, increase obsessive compulsive disorders, increase negative side effects associated with schizophrenia, schizophreniform,  bipolar disorder, depression and you will see an increase in diseases if the lungs and certain kinds of cancer.

That said ideally if the tax from it went back into crime prevention and health care to offset negative impact on society that would be ideal-but you can't guarantee that.

The Oregon model so far is the one to watch to predict what happens in Canada.

Holland is not accurate because Holland has legalized all drugs but it has methadone clinics, safe injection sites, things in Canada we still don't agree with.

Holland  has bars for it. Holland's model is too liberal the Liberals said.

When I was young I  preferred hash not ganja. I actually preferred the mild sedative buzz of mushrooms from BC to grass.

The stuff today is strong and its side effects are different but what remains constant is the inflammation, burning, tarring of the breathing passages.

I would like to see people eating it or taking it in nasal spray form which is the safest.

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Rue

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

If that's true I feel bad for you. My grandfather died from it. That's no joke man. That said people forget smoking marijhuana has risks to the respiratory system and you are vivid example of that.

It's just a mild case and I quit tobacco 30 years ago.  Switching to tobacco brownies just wasn't on. 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

It's just a mild case and I quit tobacco 30 years ago.  Switching to tobacco brownies just wasn't on. 

Can't make Pot Brownies, that'll be seen as marketing to children. 

[Rue]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's just a mild case and I quit tobacco 30 years ago.  Switching to tobacco brownies just wasn't on. 

Still tough on you. Lol no brownies. Thank God you quit smoking. My grandfather chain smoked cigars. Died at 69. Know some guys with it related to breathing in bad stuff at work. Don't wish it on you or anyone even a mild version. Ok let's get back to insulting one another. We are gonna confuse people!

[Rue]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

Can't make Pot Brownies, that'll be seen as marketing to children. 

An interesting question and maybe not so. From what I read, and its still early so you may have a point  but you can't advertise the product and edibles as far as I can tell won't be illegal. The way its packaged will be the key. So it won't be able to be marketed to kids although you k now how creative advertisers are so let's see, Correct me if I am wrong but the edibles are pretty popular now are they not? I don' eat the stuff so I don' know but in Oregon  and Colorado edibles sell as much as the smoking product if I am not mistaken.

[eyeball]

32 minutes ago, Rue said:

Up to 4 plants per home.

Well at four plants per household and with growers now learning how to train plants to produce as much as a pound of buds per plant...there will always be a surplus.

I suppose the state will take the view that four plants includes seedlings, clones and flowering plants to limit household production.  I wonder if we'll see the suppliers of lights and equipment selling starter plants or if that will be outlawed. They're already selling seeds so.

I'm betting the government will feel compelled to amend its position on growing.  What about the issue of growers and the stigmatization of property that comes with growing?

I'm also wondering how long it will be until there is a movement to grant pardons to all the people who have criminal records from the past.  I suppose the state and it's sycophants will take the view that the principle of maintaining their records for having been scofflaws is too important to overlook. The law is the law is the law after all.

[Smallc]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Minimum pricing is set for Alcohol and Tobacco. And the LCBO sets the price of all products sold, and they're a government agency. 

An important factor in how this scheme will work is the estimated price per gram. It's seen that if it's more than $10/gram the black market will still have a huge advantage. 

 

First - that makes it a provincial issue.

 

second, $12.50 isn't going to drive  people to the black market. 

[Boges]

23 minutes ago, Smallc said:

First - that makes it a provincial issue.

And it's the province I live in. I can't separate the two things. I'm seeing this issue through the Nanny state Ontario is. 

 

Quote

second, $12.50 isn't going to drive  people to the black market. 

Says you. . . 

http://globalnews.ca/news/3124478/marijuana-pot-legalization-taxes/
 

Quote

 

An analysis from the Parliamentary Budget Officer, detailed in a report released last month, determined the pre-tax price tag on legal recreational pot will hover around $7.50 per gram. The same amount of the illegal stuff now sells on the black market for about $8.80.

The small disparity — $1.30 a gram — between the two prices means there is little room to apply any taxes before the price of legal marijuana exceeds that of the black market product. And if the price of legal marijuana exceeds that of the illegal stuff, the PBO warned, consumers likely won’t see any motivation for patronizing the legal market.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Boges

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

What about the issue of growers and the stigmatization of property that comes with growing?

The problem is not stigmatization, it is dealing with the reality of a grow-op. There is a big difference between someone with a plant or two near the window, and an operation that has bootleg hydro and hundreds of plants under massive grow lights and misters or other automated watering system. The high humidity and heat completely destroy a house, leaving mold and mildew and an unsafe living environment. Additionally there is residue from the large quantities of pesticides, fungicides, and fertilizers used. It is the difference between the old lady with some potted plants in her kitchen, and a greenhouse.

Edited December 14, 2016 by ?Impact

[Smallc]

21 minutes ago, Boges said:

And it's the province I live in. I can't separate the two things. I'm seeing this issue through the Nanny state Ontario is. 

This was a federal report.

22 minutes ago, Boges said:

Says you. . . 

Says common sense.  If it's $20, that's a different story.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Smallc said:

This was a federal report.

They'll be changing the criminal code, but it'll be up to the province to come up with the distribution method. 

Quote

Says common sense.  If it's $20, that's a different story.

So the report I cited is wrong? I'm not an expert on how weed is consumed, so I can't comment on what's a fair price.

But if you can get the stuff from a guy you already know for $8 and the government is offering it for $12 and I have to go to government dispensary to get it, I'd probably go with the guy I already know.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Boges

[Smallc]

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

They'll be changing the criminal code, but it'll be up to the province to come up with the distribution method. 

Right - so pricing should be market based.

[Boges]

46 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Right - so pricing should be market based.

So it has to be lower than street pricing because layers of taxation need to be added. 

[Smallc]

We'll see what he market decides.

[Rue]

56 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Right - so pricing should be market based.

It looks like they are going the way of tobacco in every way but the added tax on higher potency which suggests market based.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

So it has to be lower than street pricing because layers of taxation need to be added. 

Well if its more expensive then what is on the streets because of the tax yah you'll have the same bootlegging as with cigarettes from reservations, etc. I am not sure they have thought that through yet. I mean the point you bring up about having it be low enough not to make it worth still buying off market, is very real. Doesn't sound like they have dealt with that yet in all their talking. They are looking at tobacco pricing and trying to recreate that-but the problem is you know how even with tobacco once it gets to a certain price, tobacco addicts go bootleg big time. I think if I were an aboriginal I'd be adding loco weed to my tobacco sales. Why not? You seen what they've done with cigs?  Can't blame them for taking advantage of the loopholes with weed either down the road.

[Canadianjim]

On 2013-06-10 at 7:38 PM, BubberMiley said:

And have to pay ridiculous sin taxes like the alcohol and tobacco consuming suckers? No thanks!

You are right. Better to give your money to drug cartels than the government.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Canadianjim

[eyeball]

Basically the government is a cartel except it's a just a lot less efficient.

[BubberMiley]

41 minutes ago, Canadianjim said:

You are right. Better to give your money to drug cartels than the government.

Marijuana can be easily sourced from local mom and pop operations.

[Canadianjim]

44 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Marijuana can be easily sourced from local mom and pop operations.

but its not.

[BubberMiley]

5 minutes ago, Canadianjim said:

but its not.

It is.

[cybercoma]

On 12/14/2016 at 5:45 PM, Boges said:

If the price of legal marijuana exceeds that of the illegal stuff, the PBO warned, consumers likely won’t see any motivation for patronizing the legal market.

This just isn't true at all. The price can exceed the illegal market, but the question is by how much? I suspect it can exceed it by some small amount and people would still go the legal route because 1) it's legal and 2) it's convenient.

Edited December 17, 2016 by cybercoma
"b" followed by ")" should not be a damn emoticon.