Boges Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) I knew the Pope wouldn't be from North America because I remember one of the Popes that came to visit said afterward, that North American Catholics are "smorgasbord" Catholics, they pick and chose what they want from their religion. I think it had to do with birth control. The Birth control doctrine is some of the most asinine stuff I've ever heard. Even if you're married, you can't have sex for pleasure unless you're willing to have a kid. Edited March 14, 2013 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 The Birth control doctrine is some of the most asinine stuff I've ever heard. Even if you're married, you can't have sex for pleasure unless you're willing to have a kid. Not true at all. /facepalm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyAC Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 You are mixing up the Catholics with the Muslims.Unfortunately, I'm not. Marrying the victim to her rapist is pure Bible. What a 'good' book! There's a reason those that read the Bible lose faith in faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Unfortunately, I'm not. Marrying the victim to her rapist is pure Bible. What a 'good' book! There's a reason those that read the Bible lose faith in faith. I've never heard of that before, or ever seen it practiced in reality. I think Argus is right. You're thinking of Muslims. And if the girl doesn't marry said rapist, they stone her, er kill her in honor. Edited March 14, 2013 by Shady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) It's in the bible. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 New International Version (NIV) 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. Edited March 14, 2013 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 It's in the bible. Where is it in Vatican II? Those are the teachings that Catholics follow. Not what you're citing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Also, it's the New Testament that applies to Catholics, not the Old Testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Also, it's the New Testament that applies to Catholics, not the Old Testament. You know not of what you speak. "The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.". http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/how-important-is-the-old-testament-for-catholics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Seriously though, he should acknowledge the abuse, pay compensation where necessary, work with law enforcement to see that all those who carried out the abuse, and those who covered it up, are dealt with accordingly, and take steps to reform the church to ensure it doesn't happen again. Allowing Priests to marry and the ordination of women would be a couple of good first steps. There is not enough money in the world to pay compensation for the harm Catholic priests incurred - anymore than asking Stalinists to pay for his harm. In a similar sense, there is not enough money in the world for the State (and its bureaucrats) to perform the tasks of religious people and family. Make no mistake. In the West, institutions such as religion and family are collapsing. We are now individuals who co-operate at best through the State (Stalin?) or through the "Internet" (Google?). God knows what the future portends. ---- I reckon that at most in life, we can pray that compensation will create an incentive for moral behaviour in the future. Edited March 14, 2013 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 You know not of what you speak. "The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.". http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/how-important-is-the-old-testament-for-catholics I'll ask again. Where is it in Vatican II? I bet you've never even heard of Vatican II before I mentioned in this thread. I bet you have no idea what is.Seriously, if you Johnny come lately atheists wanna chime in on topics of religion, at the very least do a bit of homework. You can't rely on what you read in your far-left blogs and pamphlets, and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I don't think you're going to find a Pope that'll ease church's views on Same-sex marriage. I'd imagine if one did, there'd be an insurrection. You've got an organization that doesn't support birth control. They believe sex has to have the probability of child-birth, a same-sex relationship would never have that possibility. I have a suspicion that you're wrong. The Catholic Church went through a reformation, and created a Jesuit order. The Christian ideal is "western": they turn the other cheek. (I don't say this flippantly. I mean that Christ intended to accept others into the fold. And as they say, many Catholic priests are gay anyway.) Gawd. I've mismatched metaphors/similes. The Jesuit order was a response to the Protestant reformation. I think that modern Catholics realize that they face a greater threat with Muslims. ---- I have a suspicion that gay rights, rather than women's rights, will define the Roman Catholic Church in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 . It's nice they went away from picking a stuffy European. Maybe he's just a stuffy South American. Sounds like it. Another very socially conservative Pope out of touch with most of his followers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) I'll ask again. Where is it in Vatican II? I bet you've never even heard of Vatican II before I mentioned in this thread. I bet you have no idea what is. Seriously, if you Johnny come lately atheists wanna chime in on topics of religion, at the very least do a bit of homework. You can't rely on what you read in your far-left blogs and pamphlets, and such. Lol. You rebuke me after claiming "it's a Muslim thing"? You were quite wrong. Marrying your rapist is in the bible. There was some mumbo jumbo about the old testament being Manifest in the new, blah, blah.... The church does not claim the old testament has gone away. Nice try. Edited March 14, 2013 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Sounds like it. Another very socially conservative Pope out of touch with most of his followers. In North America and Europe perhaps. The Hispanic world is the fastest growing Catholic community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Lol. You rebuke me after claiming "it's a Muslim thing"? You were quite wrong. Marrying your rapist is in the bible. There was some mumbo jumbo about the old testament being Manifest in the new, blah, blah.... The church does not claim the old testament has gone away. Nice try. I'll ask again. Where is what you're saying in Vatican II. That's the doctrine that the Catholic Church follows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Are you trying to say that the second Vatican council threw out the old testament? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Are you trying to say that the second Vatican council threw out the old testament? The New Testament largely threw out the Old Testament. There are some on this site that would say Nuhuhh! But Christian's believe that Jesus formed a new covenant with God's people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Are you trying to say that the second Vatican council threw out the old testament? No, I'm simply stating the doctrine the Catholic Church actually follows. Apparently that seems to be hard for some people to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 The New Testament largely threw out the Old Testament. There are some on this site that would say Nuhuhh! But Christian's believe that Jesus formed a new covenant with God's people. The Church doesn't see it that way. Jesus even orders his followers to follow the laws of the Old Testament in Matthew 5:17-18. The OT is still a source of "truth" for the RCC and all Christian sects, but they have the freedom not to take scripture literally. All Christian denominations cherry pick their beliefs from both the old and new testament. As societal morality progresses Religion adapts its values and positions on scripture accordingly. Since, the RCC states that the church is responsible for interpreting scripture and that its followers must adhere to church teachings as well as the Bible, they have councils to sort out their positions on various issues. Vatican II that Shady referred to was the most recent council in which the church redefines the responsibilities of clergy and grapples with their stance on various issues, like contraception for instance. Anyway in response to your statement: So what do you suggest he does? Have the people that did what they did to children executed?I simply pointed out that if we are to look to the Bible for answers to your question then execution is warranted. Unless of course the rape victims are virgin females, then they should be forced to marry their rapist. In reality the men responsible should face trials following the laws of the countries in which they reside and guys like Joseph Ratzinger should stand trial for covering up the crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Top Ten Rejected Pope Names Thursday, March 14, 2013 10. Kim Jong Pope 9. Pope Pius Galifianakis 8. Pope John MMMLXXXVII (Pope John The Three Thousand Eighty-Seventh) 7. Pope Sixteenth the Eleventh 6. Pope Milton Tingling 5. Pope W. Bush 4. Pope John Paul Van Damme 3. Pope Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino 2. Sponge Pope Big Hat 1. Francis Ford Poppola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Unfortunately, I'm not. Marrying the victim to her rapist is pure Bible. What a 'good' book! There's a reason those that read the Bible lose faith in faith. There are a lot of odd things in most of the world's holy books given most date back many, many centuries and cultures and values were quite different then. The only people who still seem to cling to the cultural beliefs and punishments of their holy book today are the Muslims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) It's in the bible. Depending on how it is interpreted. http://www.gotquestions.org/Deuteronomy-22-28-29-marry-rapist.html http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm Edited March 14, 2013 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I disagree. If he was just a Catholic, okay, but as the head of that organization he now does own the sins of others.Unless he was among those who did actual cover-ups, why woud he "own the sins of others?" He can take steps though to repair the damage, and to ensure that offending priests get booted out to protect not only would-be victims, but also the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 As head of the "organization," he'll own the problems. From what's been reported in Italian newspapers, there could be more scandals that will erupt. It's alleged that that's the reason why the ex-Pope resigned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Depending on how it is interpreted. http://www.gotquestions.org/Deuteronomy-22-28-29-marry-rapist.html http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm Some versions say rape... The KJV version was changed to "seduce".... Of course it is open to interpretation.... now... Originally, these things were very literal. People were stoned to death for a myriad of things... women probably had to marry their rapists... no one suffered witches to live. When society changes for the better, it drags the church along with it and suddenly things are open to interpretation that previously weren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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