Pope Francis the First

[Boges]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/world/europe/cardinals-elect-new-pope.html?_r=0

It's nice they went away from picking a stuffy European.

So how long will it take for people to try and associate him with protecting pedophiles?

Edited March 13, 2013 by Boges

[Guest]

Maybe he's just a stuffy South American.

As to his attitude towards protecting altar boys, I guess it remains to be seen.

[The_Squid]

So how long will it take for people to try and associate him with protecting pedophiles?

The criticism is more than fair. When will people stop being apologists for this heinous cult? He is the leader of an organization that protected pedophiles for decades.... If he makes positive steps to undo the harm, that would be a good first step.

But no one should hold their breath.

[Shady]

I'm glad it wasn't another European too.

[Boges]

If he makes positive steps to undo the harm, that would be a good first step.

Like what? Pay Reparations? Was there widespread sex scandals in Argentina?

He shouldn't be forced to own the sins of others.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Boges

[Guest]

I disagree. If he was just a Catholic, okay, but as the head of that organization he now does own the sins of others.

[Mighty AC]

I doubt we'll see any progress on the sexual orientation front, but he's 77 so it shouldn't be too long until the next pope.

He strongly opposed legislation introduced in 2010 by the Argentine Government to allow same-sex marriage, calling it a "real and dire anthropological throwback". In a letter to the monasteries of Buenos Aires, he wrote: "Let's not be naive, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God."

He has also insisted that adoption by gay and lesbian people is a form of discrimination against children. This position received a rebuke from Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, who said the church's tone was reminiscent of "medieval times and the Inquisition".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Bergoglio

[Boges]

I disagree. If he was just a Catholic, okay, but as the head of that organization he now does own the sins of others.

So what do you suggest he does? Have the people that did what they did to children executed?

I'm sure he'll come out strongly against what other did involving the sex scandal, but that won't be enough for people that are already pre-disposed to hating the church.

I suppose it's not his job to make outsiders happy in the first place.

[Mighty AC]

He shouldn't be forced to own the sins of others.

The organization is still responsible, but Francis shouldn't personally own the sins of others. That would be ridiculous...you know, like original sin.

[Boges]

So what do you suggest he does? Have the people that did what they did to children executed?

I'm sure he'll come out strongly against what other did involving the sex scandal, but that won't be enough for people that are already pre-disposed to hating the church.

I suppose it's not his job to make outsiders happy in the first place.

I don't think you're going to find a Pope that'll ease church's views on Same-sex marriage. I'd imagine if one did, there'd be an insurrection.

You've got an organization that doesn't support birth control. They believe sex has to have the probability of child-birth, a same-sex relationship would never have that possibility.

[Guest]

So what do you suggest he does? Have the people that did what they did to children executed?

I'm sure he'll come out strongly against what other did involving the sex scandal, but that won't be enough for people that are already pre-disposed to hating the church.

I suppose it's not his job to make outsiders happy in the first place.

I don't think I ever considered execution. Still, keep an open mind, that's what I always say.

Seriously though, he should acknowledge the abuse, pay compensation where necessary, work with law enforcement to see that all those who carried out the abuse, and those who covered it up, are dealt with accordingly, and take steps to reform the church to ensure it doesn't happen again. Allowing Priests to marry and the ordination of women would be a couple of good first steps.

[Mighty AC]

So what do you suggest he does? Have the people that did what they did to children executed?

It depends. Where should we turn for moral guidance? If it's the Bible then maybe execution would be appropriate, unless of course the victim was female. In that case, it may be appropriate to force her to marry the rapist.

[Boges]

Allowing Priests to marry and the ordination of women would be a couple of good first steps.

I don't think that'll ever happen. If Catholics are looking for that, perhaps they aren't really all that Catholic.

Again, I'm not Catholic and I disagree with much of what they believe, but I find it amusing that all these people that really have no interest in anything religious are giving the oldest Christian church suggestions as what they "should" do.

[GostHacked]

Like what? Pay Reparations? Was there widespread sex scandals in Argentina?

He shouldn't be forced to own the sins of others.

I believe that comes with the role of being leader of the Catholic Church. Any leader has to do what they can to remedy the crimes that members of the organization have committed.

[Boges]

It depends. Where should we turn for moral guidance? If it's the Bible then maybe execution would be appropriate, unless of course the victim was female. In that case, it may be appropriate to force her to marry the rapist.

Aren't you thinking Islam there.

If you're looking at Jesus as the guide forgiveness would be in-order. But I would agree allowing people have a track record of abusing children allowed to remain in a position of power is wrong.

There's no evidence that this person supports that though.

[Guest]

I don't think that'll ever happen. If Catholics are looking for that, perhaps they aren't really all that Catholic.

Again, I'm not Catholic and I disagree with much of what they believe, but I find it amusing that all these people that really have no interest in anything religious are giving the oldest Christian church suggestions as what they "should" do.

Strangely enough, I am Roman Catholic. Baptised and confirmed, anyway. I lapsed a long time ago though, and am pretty much an atheist now.

Nevertheless, it really has nothing to do with an interest in religion. The Catholic church is responsible for child abuse, and one's attitude towards religion in general, or Catholicism in particular, should not have a bearing on what we see as the responsibility of an organisation, any organisation, to put things right. And the new CEO is responsible for that.

[Shady]

I don't think I ever considered execution. Still, keep an open mind, that's what I always say.

Seriously though, he should acknowledge the abuse, pay compensation where necessary, work with law enforcement to see that all those who carried out the abuse, and those who covered it up, are dealt with accordingly, and take steps to reform the church to ensure it doesn't happen again. Allowing Priests to marry and the ordination of women would be a couple of good first steps.

I'm not sure if that would take care of the homosexual problem within the church.

[Mighty AC]

Aren't you thinking Islam there.

Nope, having women marry their rapist is a biblical gem.

[Guest]

I'm not sure if that would take care of the homosexual problem within the church.

I didn't say who the Priests could marry...

[Sleipnir]

I doubt we'll see any progress on the sexual orientation front, but he's 77 so it shouldn't be too long until the next pope.

I'll give him 5-6 years before the next conclave.

[Shady]

I'll give him 5-6 years before the next conclave.

He's 76, so that's not all that much of a prediction.

[Argus]

The criticism is more than fair. When will people stop being apologists for this heinous cult? He is the leader of an organization that protected pedophiles for decades.... If he makes positive steps to undo the harm, that would be a good first step.

But no one should hold their breath.

No organization was any better, including police forces, teachers, governments and media. All of them ignored reports of child sex, often punishing

whoever reported them.

[Argus]

I don't think I ever considered execution. Still, keep an open mind, that's what I always say.

Seriously though, he should acknowledge the abuse, pay compensation where necessary, work with law enforcement to see that all those who carried out the abuse, and those who covered it up, are dealt with accordingly, and take steps to reform the church to ensure it doesn't happen again. Allowing Priests to marry and the ordination of women would be a couple of good first steps.

The church has been paying reparations and compensation. And it has already implemented reforms. Almost any time you hear about child sex abuse associated with them it's from the eighties or seventies or sixties or even earlier. I don't think allowing priests to marry would make a big difference, except that it might cause all those gay men who joined the priesthood because they hated themselves and their orientation to think otherwise. Almost all the child sexual abuse was between gay priests and boys, very little involving girls.

[Argus]

It depends. Where should we turn for moral guidance? If it's the Bible then maybe execution would be appropriate, unless of course the victim was female. In that case, it may be appropriate to force her to marry the rapist.

You are mixing up the Catholics with the Muslims.

[Topaz]

I knew the Pope wouldn't be from North America because I remember one of the Popes that came to visit said afterward, that North American Catholics are "smorgasbord" Catholics, they pick and chose what they want from their religion. I think it had to do with birth control.