Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario

[Guest Kenneth]

Here's a few recipes from the "Confederate Receipt Book". Use at your own discretion...

TABLE BEER.--

To eight quarts of boiling water put a pound of treacle, a quarter of an ounce of ginger and two bay leaves, let this boil for a quarter of an hour, then cool, and work it with yeast as other beer.

ANOTHER RECEIPT.--

Eight quarts water, one quart molasses, one pint yeast, one tablespoonful cream of tartar, mixed and bottled in twenty-four hours; or, to two pounds of coarse brown sugar add two gallons of water, and nearly two ounces hops. Let the whole boil three quarters of an hour, and then work as usual It should stand a week or ten days before being drawn, and will improve daily afterward for a moderate time.

SPRUCE BEER.--

Take three gallons of water, blood warmth, three half pints of molasses, a tablespoonful of essence of spruce, and the like quantity of ginger, mix well together with a gill of yeast, let it stand over night, and bottle it in the morning. It will be in a good condition to drink in twenty-four hours.

GINGER BEER.--

One pint of molasses and two spoonfuls of ginger put into a pail, to be half filled with boiling water; when well stirred together, fill the pail with cold water, leaving room for one pint of yeast, which must not be put in until lukewarm. Place it on a warm hearth for the night, and bottle in the morning.

BLACKBERRY WINE.--

Measure your berries and bruise them; to every gallon add one quart of boiling water, let the mixture stand twenty-four hours, stirring occasionally, then strain off the liquor into a cask; to every gallon add two pounds of sugar, cork tight, and let it stand till following October, and you will have wine ready for use without any further straining or boiling, that will make lips smack as they never smacked under similar influence before.

http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/receipt/receipt.html

Edited May 10, 2013 by Kenneth

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Aren't you just a ball of fun!

Well, it's true though. If you rely on drinking alcohol to have a good time, that is the definition of alcoholic Reliance on alcohol.

There are wineries in Quebec where they do all the work but the customer must do the final bottling. It works out to about $4/bottle for the equivalent of $10 SAQ "product elaborated in Quebec" wine.

They have lots of those places in Ontario too. Fermenting is so easy. I brew my own hard cider (considered one of the easiest things to home brew). Pour juice/cider into fermentation bucket, add yeast and seal, wait 7-10 days, bottle with some sort of sugar to carbonate, wait a minimum of 3-4 weeks, drink up..

Edited May 11, 2013 by MiddleClassCentrist

[DFCaper]

What helps me not hate the LCBO too much is being able to buy duty free. Enough that I only buy the occasional specialty beer at LCBOs. The prices are just too ridiculous otherwise. I drink margaritas in the summer, and Tequila is 1/3 the price to the south.

I never understood why we need to have the government in the retail business. Should the government control distribution? Yes, but let ma and pa stores sell it. Support small business. If our current government of criminals were to allow private business to sell it for them, it would likely be a bad deal like the beer store.

[Boges]

I never understood why we need to have the government in the retail business. Should the government control distribution? Yes, but let ma and pa stores sell it. Support small business. If our current government of criminals were to allow private business to sell it for them, it would likely be a bad deal like the beer store.

That's the thing the Union ignores. Sure it provides excellent jobs for a select few, but if competition was allowed there'd be lots of wealth going around.

[silver72]

For the beer drinkers , just go fill up your garage of the beer and then if the strike goes on for a month or so, you just have to visit the garage.

[jacee]

Well, it's true though. If you rely on drinking alcohol to have a good time, that is the definition of alcoholic Reliance on alcohol.

Well I think that's a bit broad.

I think it has to do with impacting negatively on your life.

You reacted by calling Boges an alcoholic because he was upset that LCBO short Sunday hours meant he arrived at a friend's place empty handed. I just think you were extremely harsh judging him so severely.

It is often common courtesy to bring something to drink, and embarrassing to arrive empty-handed.

You were out of line jumping from there to "You're an alcoholic." Sheesh!

Enjoy your cider. And maybe let others enjoy theirs too.

I think the monopoly and hours limitation on alcohol by government/LCBO is just silly. Time for Ontario to grow up.

Edited May 13, 2013 by jacee

[guyser]

I think the monopoly and hours limitation on alcohol by government/LCBO is just silly. Time for Ontario to grow up.

We did.

Hours open extend late into the night. Great selection.

No more drab grey stores with nary a bottle to be seen (nary? how about none)

Open Sundays.

Small retailt oulets in groccery stores is working well , limited selection the only drawback, but that speaks to the small grocery store size more than anything

Edited May 13, 2013 by guyser

[Boges]

Small retailt oulets in groccery stores is working well , limited selection the only drawback, but that speaks to the small grocery store size more than anything

You mean Wine Racks? They're not exactly convenient, and the prices aren't as competitive as with the LCBO. Ironically the nearest Wine Rack to me located in a grocery store has an LCBO in the exact same plaza. Cheaper just to go to the LCBO.

A few months back the LCBO said they would open up full LCBOs in select grocery stores, so you could get beer and liqour there too. That would be OK but still likely has the same problems we see in the LCBO.

The LCBO Union has been running ads on the radio today. Talking about how they don't want Ontario to be a part-time province.

The part-time workers at the LCBO make no less than $15/hour. I doubt anyone is weeping for them.

[guyser]

You mean Wine Racks?

No think mini-LCBO's. I have one at my cottage, housed in a Foodland , basically a small portion of the stores retail floor is dedicated to it. Think of it as a kiosk of sorts. Similar to this one.... http://www.livinginayr.ca/node/152

Theyll have all the best selling beer (nothing really fancy of course) and the standard of wines, Yellowtail , Bin 65 et al,Fuzion, liquor of most any kind you will run out of on a late Sat afternoon.

Very handy as it is close by and very convenient.

The only downside for me was this one particular store would only give a credit voucher, valid for that day only , when you returned beer bottles and winde bottles. So, no taking bottles back at 5:59PM on a saturday or you lose the money. I think they have stopped after some loud bitching (including me! )

They're not exactly convenient, and the prices aren't as competitive as with the LCBO. Ironically the nearest Wine Rack to me located in a grocery store has an LCBO in the exact same plaza. Cheaper just to go to the LCBO.

These ones are LC's, same price same all but less selection. Edited May 13, 2013 by guyser

[Boges]

Those are called agency stores. The overhead on a Lickbo is so high that there are some places where they just allow a grocery store to sell liquor. Of course the union opposes such stores. Good luck getting them in a community of any decent size.

[guyser]

Those are called agency stores. The overhead on a Lickbo is so high that there are some places where they just allow a grocery store to sell liquor. Of course the union opposes such stores. Good luck getting them in a community of any decent size.

Ok, but the point still holds as valid.

It is a convenience, it is really close and saves me more than an hour should I need just beer or something easy like that.

The closest one (large store) is in Huntsville and is a flagship store, all the bells and whistles.

And thanks LCBO, they opened a flagship store at Washago. Turn off Hwy 11, 50 feet, get booze, 50 feet later I am back on the highway to Muskoka. All good by me!

[August1991]

No think mini-LCBO's. I have one at my cottage, housed in a Foodland , basically a small portion of the stores retail floor is dedicated to it. Think of it as a kiosk of sorts. Similar to this one.... http://www.livinginayr.ca/node/152

Theyll have all the best selling beer (nothing really fancy of course) and the standard of wines, Yellowtail , Bin 65 et al,Fuzion, liquor of most any kind you will run out of on a late Sat afternoon.

Guyser, you have described the "Quebec model" for selling wine and beer. Almost every local corner store has such a section. They stop sales at 11 pm. Like in Europe, large grocery chains in Quebec usually have an aisle dedicated to wine/beer. The difference with Europe is that in Quebec grocery stores, the wine/beer must be produced/bottled/elaborated in Quebec - unless they are American. Because of the US/Canada FTA, American wines are treated as Quebec wines. To buy wine packaged outside Quebec/America, one has to go to the SAQ.

In effect, in Quebec, it is easier to buy Californian wine than to buy wine produced in Ontario or BC.

-----

A bigger issue is ordering wine on the Internet within Canada. In theory, there should be no tariff involved.

Here's a link to website devoted to the issue: http://www.winelaw.ca/cms/index.php/news/1/232-canada-shipping-law-update-69-open

The only thing crazier than our laws on alcohol are our laws on milk. Go figure.

Edited May 14, 2013 by August1991

[August1991]

That's the thing the Union ignores. Sure it provides excellent jobs for a select few, but if competition was allowed there'd be lots of wealth going around.

Leftists often argue that unions create a "vanguard", and lift up from the bottom. In fact, something far more insidious occurs.

An SAQ employee makes about $25/hour - minimum wage in Quebec is about $10/hour, and that's what employees elsewhere in retail (eg Dollarama) probably earn.

By creating such a wage differential, there is understandably a long list of applicants to get a job at the SAQ. People dissipate their potential higher earnings waiting for a job at the SAQ. (This is known as rent-seeking.)

Moreover, there is the inevitable corruption as favouritism decides who gets the next job opening at the SAQ. The union stewards have power and can decide, using arbitrary rules, who is next in line. (In union-speak, this is known as "seniority" and they have many arcane, arbitrary rules to define it.)

Thread Drift Ahead

It's a gross generalization but many corner stores in Quebec (not just Montreal) are operated by foreigners. Near me in east Montreal, it's a Korean family (as often in the US). Most SAQ employees OTOH, even in west Montreal, are pure laine Quebecers - a Tremblay or a Gauthier, but an even mix of women and men.

I reckon that corruption and racism ultimately come from State control. And the best antidote to corruption or racism is to open borders. I suspect that Montreal will only solve problems of corruption in the construction industry when the city allows non-Montreal firms to bid on contracts.

Edited May 14, 2013 by August1991

[Boges]

Leftists often argue that unions create a "vanguard", and lift up from the bottom. In fact, something far more insidious occurs.

An SAQ employee makes about $25/hour - minimum wage in Quebec is about $10/hour, and that's what employees elsewhere in retail (eg Dollarama) probably earn.

By creating such a wage differential, there is understandably a long list of applicants to get a job at the SAQ. People dissipate their potential higher earnings waiting for a job at the SAQ. (This is known as rent-seeking.)

Moreover, there is the inevitable corruption as favouritism decides who gets the next job opening at the SAQ. The union stewards have power and can decide, using arbitrary rules, who is next in line. (In union-speak, this is known as "seniority" and they have many arcane, arbitrary rules to define it.)

Thread Drift Ahead

It's a gross generalization but many corner stores in Quebec (not just Montreal) are operated by foreigners. Near me in east Montreal, it's a Korean family (as often in the US). Most SAQ employees OTOH, even in west Montreal, are pure laine Quebecers - a Tremblay or a Gauthier, but an even mix of women and men.

I reckon that corruption and racism ultimately come from State control. And the best antidote to corruption or racism is to open borders. I suspect that Montreal will only solve problems of corruption in the construction industry when the city allows non-Montreal firms to bid on contracts.

In Ontario the Convenience Store Lobby wants the right to sell select Wine and Beer. The Government isn't indicating it is close to alloying it. Though a prolonged strike might change their tune. The Ontario PCs have said they'd look into it should they be elected.

There are places other than the LCBO that you can get beer and wine but they aren't anywhere nearly as convenient as a corner store.

Just as you say August, the people who own these stores are usually immigrants trying to eek out a living. Long hours and low pay, doing a job that many people born here would refuse to do. The government is making tobacco and lotteries less lucrative for them, so it's an example of a Public Sector Union and Government stifling small business owners to maintain their ridiculous monopoly.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Boges

[CliffStir]

It's a minor inconvenience... you don't need to drink to have a good time. If you do, you are an alcoholic.

It's about choice, which some on here just don't seem to get.

And it's about yet another facet of our lives that the government has no right being involved in.

They say it's for our own good, but it's really about massive profits at the tax payer's expense. Again.

Follow the money!

[CliffStir]

repeat after me ;

Unions are only interested in what's best for the people.

[guyser]

Let me fix this for you.

Unions are only interested in what's best for the people. union

[Boges]

T-2 days, who thinks they'll actually go through with it?

Canada Border Services will be swamped with people trying to smuggle boos across the border if this happens.

[DFCaper]

I still cannot believe the union will walk out. Too many people are already wondering why we still have such tight government control of alcohol. Walking out may play into Hudak's hand.

I only need to pick up one or 2 more items and I am set for the summer!!!

[Patton74]

Let me fix this for you.

Unions are only interested in what's best for the people. union

I have never seen a statement more true.

If they cannot control it they do not want it to exist. The only reason the LCBO is not privatized is pure money. This argument about public safety is just a cover for the pure money grab that the LCBO has become. Do I agree that two hour shifts are wrong. You bet. But a part time job paying what they do is a loss of money for the public coffers. We have the nerve to talk about the money that teachers,doctors and nurses make but saying a stock boy need to make 18 bucks an hour is ok. Nope sorry.

Keep grabbing your union dues because thats all you care about.Unions are just another form of a greedy corporation

[Guest Kenneth]

Are you expecting alcohol to be cheaper if you can get it at a retail outlet?

[Boges]

It's possible because the overhead won't be nearly as high. But at least it'll be more convenient.

[guyser]

There the rub boges.

Will it be? The stores I go to are open late, Sundays , and chances are they would have to close at 10 or 11, like the LCBO.

Selection? Perhaps not at this store, but maybe better 5 miles away.

Product knowledge, that has to take a hit , I just cant see it being the same. (maybe others have bad experiences w staff knowledge, I never have)

Prices wont be any different for the most part.

[August1991]

Are you expecting alcohol to be cheaper if you can get it at a retail outlet?

It's hard to say because local taxes play such a large role in determining price. In general though, prices for booze abroad are lower than in Canada.

When there is a state monopoly, invariably, over time, the management and the union of employees capture a large part of the monopoly rents. Even further in time, these rents are dissipated through waiting lists, hiring rules, corruption, mismanagement. Hydro and health care, both state monopolies in Canada, are at various stages in this process. It seems that a state monopoly can survive for about 75 years or so before the rent-seeking activities destroy the organization.

Kenneth, in simple terms, the government could raise more tax revenue if it allowed private retail to sell booze. If this seems shocking, maybe English Canadian provinces could experiment with private retail sales of beer and wine, beverages with less than, say, 15% alcoholic content.

----

It has always been a source of wonder to me that puritans, Lutherans, temperance, suffragettes (WCTU) were in many ways the grandparents of modern political correctness - one aspect of the modern Left.

[Argus]

That's the thing the Union ignores. Sure it provides excellent jobs for a select few, but if competition was allowed there'd be lots of wealth going around.

Yes, and no. The LCBO is one of the world's biggest retail outlets for liquor, and as such they get the royal treatment and reduced prices for their big purchases. Without them the distributors would have to hire a bunch of trucks and sales guys to fan out all across the province making deliveries to every little convenience store or wherever, so again you'd have higher prices. The way they do it in Ontario might be occasionally inconvenient but it's extremely efficient. Doing it your way might well lead to higher prices.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Argus