Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario

[Mighty AC]

A study has shown that the Ontario government would increase revenues from the sale of liquor if they partially privatized the LCBO. I wouldn't expect prices to drop, but an increase in both revenues and convenience is fine with me.

[guyser]

I would like to read that.

[Mighty AC]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/19938-protest-against-the-lcbo-liquor-control-board-of-ontario/page-10#entry926702

Edited December 5, 2013 by Mighty AC

[overthere]

You didn't, but that's okay, wouldn't expect any in depth on an issue that doesn't exist anyhow.

$1.2 Billion in profit. 'nuff said.

Still don't pay any less than we do......

All those savings and not a drop to you. Maybe you should have a wee chat w the ALCB . I will play bloated prices (same as you) and allow the govt to reap the benefit for the rest of the province.

1.5 billion ?

Paythetic.

The AB govt nets $729 million in profit with one third the population, and has none of the immense unfunded pension liability for LCBO that is not part of your piddly $1.2 billion. And far less risk too....

Lots of drops to me, $729 million and nothing to fear on the other side of the ledger.

But I guess Ontario feels safer having civil servants operate tills and forklifts. Welcome to the 19th century.

[Boges]

The big lies the LCBO perpetuates are that their prices are set for social responsibility and the workforce has to be very well paid union staff to keep alcohol out of minors.

Both arguments don't hold up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny.

If the LCBO was about "social responsibility" they wouldn't aggressively market with advertising and publications.

As for the staff. I'm sure an independent businessperson would be far more diligent in keeping to the law if they stood to lose their licence to sell alcohol. I don't see a unionized person having that same fear. The LCBO certainly wouldn't be closed and I'm certain their union would grieve any punishment.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Boges

[guyser]

The big lies the LCBO perpetuates are that their prices are set for social responsibility and the workforce has to be very well paid union staff to keep alcohol out of minors.

Both arguments don't hold up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny.

If the LCBO was about "social responsibility" they wouldn't aggressively market with advertising and publications.

As for the staff. I'm sure an independent businessperson would be far more diligent in keeping to the law if they stood to lose their licence to sell alcohol. I don't see a unionized person having that same fear. The LCBO certainly wouldn't be closed and I'm certain their union would grieve any punishment.

While I can agree with you the reason they set...social responsibility is kind of hogwash, the ID'ing thing is pretty ingrained in them and the Beer Store employees.

They card all the time and have a good record on it.

[overthere]

"The big lies the LCBO perpetuates are that their prices are set for social responsibility and the workforce has to be very well paid union staff to keep alcohol out of minors."

You cannot expect anything at all from the management of any Crown agency or department in terms of fiscal responsibility.

Every manager in the bloated hierarchy must have people reporting to them and budget to 'manage' to maintain their tenured positions and plump salaries. They have to find other reasons to pretend civil serviants are required to sell an everyday commodity. There are no compellig reasons, so they come up with weak crap like 'social responsibility. The only ones with both the ability and motive to privatize are the politicians. They won't do it because they fear the political power of civil service unions, who go utterly apeshit when they hear of any move to eliminate a single job, the reasons don't matter to them.

You are right about privatized businesses - liquor stores and bars- being very careful about checking for minors. They have everything to lose.

[guyser]

You are right about privatized businesses - liquor stores and bars- being very careful about checking for minors. They have everything to lose.

As do LCBO frontline workers and The Beer Store employees.

No different.

[Boges]

As do LCBO frontline workers and The Beer Store employees.No different.

No they don't. First of all, an LCBO is never going to get its license yanked. You wouldn't close down, perhaps, the only place to get alcohol in an entire neighbourhood. Now if there was competition. . .

2nd, unions will protect a worker no matter what.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Boges

[guyser]

(problem w quoting-it doesn't work)

Neither would a private business , verified by the number of bars that have been convicted of serving minors. Only repeated and deplorable records would any establishment come under the gun.

A study suggest , in this order of best to worst (with all being somewhat lousy) is The Beer Store, LCBO and last...?....Convenience stores for checking ID.

[Boges]

(problem w quoting-it doesn't work)

Neither would a private business , verified by the number of bars that have been convicted of serving minors. Only repeated and deplorable records would any establishment come under the gun.

A study suggest , in this order of best to worst (with all being somewhat lousy) is The Beer Store, LCBO and last...?....Convenience stores for checking ID.

Cite said study.

Convenience stores already sell controlled substances: tobacco. So they currently have IDing policies.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Boges

[eyeball]

So it seems it's always sinful to use recreation substances but not to sell them. Unless of course you're a unionized public employee.

I'm assuming sin taxes, amongst other things, are to send society a message about morality and inappropriateness Maybe we should institute sin taxes on unionized labour.

[Boges]

Maybe we should institute sin taxes on unionized labour.

Now we're talking!

[Mighty AC]

I'm fine with sin taxes on detrimental substances. However, like Boges mentioned, Ontario is taxing the sale of alcohol to 'limit use' while simultaneously spending a fortune on advertising to increase sales. It's a ridiculous position to be in and there is no good reason for it when partial privatization would benefit both consumers and government coffers.

[eyeball]

Is Ontario like BC, using tax dollars to install highway signage directing motorists to the location of wineries?

Limit usage.... lol.

[guyser]

Eyeball, those highway signs are paid by those that are advertising it.

[guyser]

Boges....Sorry cannot paste anything here, wont allow. However it is cited in the Wiki on LCBO, section 7.2

[Boges]

Not the LCBO but even worse. The Ontario Beer Store which have a government sanctioned monopoly owned by the world's largest beer companies.

An now they're spouting absolute crap to the media.

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/02/10/beer-store-study-ontario-prices/

TORONTO • Proponents of free-market beer sales in Ontario see soggy reasoning in a new research paper from The Beer Store claiming prices would spike if the province allows convenience stores to sell alcohol.

Amid rising criticism from government critics and consumers that The Beer Store’s virtual monopoly on sales in the province should come to an end, the retailer asserted Monday that allowing C-stores to sell beer would hike the price of a case of 24 by an average of $10.

Corner stores or privately owned outlets are allowed to sell beer in Quebec, Alberta, British Columbia and Newfoundland and Labrador. On Monday, The Beer Store president Ted Moroz laid out the case for why he thinks the status quo should continue at the beer seller, which is owned jointly by foreign-controlled Molson, Labatt and Sleeman.

Citing a Beer Store-commissioned position paper from Alberta economist Greg Flanagan, he argued full and partial privatization of retail alcohol sales in Alberta and B.C., respectively, has led to higher overall prices because selling the products at an increased number of outlets resulted in less productive retail stores.

Shocking!!! A guy that has NO COMPETITION!!! is trying to maintain that Monopoly by telling bold face lies. And the media lets him!

It's funny that this guy is saying this when The Beer Stores only really market the big boys. If you want a craft beer you have to ask them to bring it out for you. So how would allowing corners stores to sell craft brewers make the price skyrocket?

Why do Ontarian's allow us to be treated in such a manor by our government. 2 of the 3 provincial parties are happy with the Status quo. It's an embarrassment that Ontario operates like this.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Boges

[Black Dog]

The Beer Store is a bigger embarrassment than the LCBO.

[guyser]

The cost to distribute to all the C stores will cost more money than the current distribution.

Now the problem is can the C stores have sales and or will the govt drop the taxes to offset the higher distribution costs?

[Black Dog]

The cost to distribute to all the C stores will cost more money than the current distribution.

Now the problem is can the C stores have sales and or will the govt drop the taxes to offset the higher distribution costs?

Why would they?

If prices go up as a result, that's an unfortunate but necessary trade off for better access and an end to the cartel that runs the Beer Store.

[Boges]

I'm sure a Beer Store wouldn't demand the mark up the Beer Store requires to maintain a staff of Unionized people to roll cases of beer on a conveyor belt.

I'm also sure craft brewers would happily delivery to C-stores to get actual shelf space instead of a logo on a wall.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Boges

[guyser]

Why would they?

If prices go up as a result, that's an unfortunate but necessary trade off for better access and an end to the cartel that runs the Beer Store.

I suppose they wont, but the increased price then is something accurate about this thread? The last few posts said the Beer Store was lying about the cost (I dont think $10 is even close, maybe a buck or two) from the report they commissioned.

Personally, I see no problems with the BStore, availablity is great , store hrs are fine, locations plentiful , but I dont like who owns it .

[Black Dog]

I'm sure a Beer Store wouldn't demand the mark up the Beer Store requires to maintain a staff of Unionized people to roll cases of beer on a conveyor belt.

I'm also sure craft brewers would happily delivery to C-stores to get actual shelf space instead of a logo on a wall.

It's one of the great ironies that the organization that was started to protect Ontario brewers from foreign forces is now run by foreign forces who are using their government-granted powers to limit Ontario brewers' access to the marketplace.

[Black Dog]

I suppose they wont, but the increased price then is something accurate about this thread? The last few posts said the Beer Store was lying about the cost (I dont think $10 is even close, maybe a buck or two) from the report they commissioned.

I dunno how accurate. $10 seems steep, but who knows? Actually, who cares? Prices aren't the point. Competition and accessibility are.

Personally, I see no problems with the BStore, availablity is great , store hrs are fine, locations plentiful , but I dont like who owns it .

Shitty hours, shitty selection for anything but mass market swill and a shitty retail experience overall. Only time I shop there is when it's my turn to supply the cold ones after hockey.