Black Dog Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 The major reservation about Hitchcock is his age. He is 63. That is kind of ancient in the NHL today. I'm not sure about McLellan. He has not won a lot of games that matter as a head coach in the league. Babcock is the Gold Standard Coach, globally . As a head coach he has won a Stanley Cup, World Championship, 2 Olympic Golds, a CIS championship and a W#orld Junior. Nobody else has done that. Surefire Hall of Fame stuff. I like McLellan a lot and I don't think you can judge a coach for not winning the big prize anymore than you can judge individual players. Maybe even less so. Babcock is obviously the sexy pick, but he did have a few Hall of Famers to work with in his heyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I don't think you can judge a coach for not winning the big prize anymore than you can judge individual players. Maybe even less so. What exactly in McLellans record makes you like him a lot? He led San Jose to some OK results in the regular season, but his playoff record in the NHL is very poor. Outside that, he has one one trophy as head coach- the Calder Cup If players and coached do not succeed in games where they keep score, on what basis do you judge them? Participation medals? Good intentions? Babcock is obviously the sexy pick, but he did have a few Hall of Famers to work with in his heyday. Yep, but he has also had teams of pluggers, including this year when his team was mainly from the AHL. I assess Babcock as a great coach because he has won at every level he has coached for his whole career. He did not always have Hall of Fame players.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) What exactly in McLellans record makes you like him a lot? He led San Jose to some OK results in the regular season, but his playoff record in the NHL is very poor. Outside that, he has one one trophy as head coach- the Calder Cup His regular season winning percentage is actually better than Babcock's. And he didn't have a perennial Norris trophy winner on the blueline for most of his tenure like Babcock did. If players and coached do not succeed in games where they keep score, on what basis do you judge them? Participation medals? Good intentions? I'm not sure what point you are arguing with, but it's not any one I made. I was saying that you can't necessarily judge individuals based on team success, especially in the post season. Think of how many great players, from Marcel Dionne to Jarome Iginla have never won Cups; does that make them bad players? And those are people with far more influence on what happens on the ice than coaches. Yep, but he has also had teams of pluggers, including this year when his team was mainly from the AHL. And look what happened there. I assess Babcock as a great coach because he has won at every level he has coached for his whole career. He did not always have Hall of Fame players.. He's won one Cup and had one SCF appearance with a stacked Detroit team and an SCF appearance with a pretty solid Ducks squad; he has as many pro championships as McLellan. In the last six years he's had three first round and three second round exits. It's not all sunshine and unicorns. Point is, they'd both be solid choices. Edited April 30, 2015 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I guess that is why they gave Babcock the Olynpics head coaching job the last two years. Hitchcock was an assistant both times, and no sign of McLellan. His regular season winning percentage is actually better than Babcock's. Yes, because McLellan has better players and a better team, yet did worse in the playoffs than Babcock. And look what happened there. Thanks for helping me out: Detroit made the playoffs despite having an old team riddled with injuries and using many young and untried players to get to playoffs and come within a whisker of beating Tampa. There isn't one GM in the league who would trade Detroits roster for San Jose, yet babcock has had more success. Babcock is the Gold Standard for coaches, Maclellan is one rung down. I'd put Quenneville nearly on par with Babcock, and Hitch a rung down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Not Leafs but hockey topic: Apparently, Montreal's Brandon Prust was castigated by an official during the last game. http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/montreal-canadiens-brandon-prust-has-made-himself-a-marked-man-by-embarrassing-an-official-former-nhl-ref-kerry-fraser I had no idea that referees shared that kind of banter during a game. I thought their job was to call penalties- period! Edited May 4, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I guess that is why they gave Babcock the Olynpics head coaching job the last two years. Hitchcock was an assistant both times, and no sign of McLellan. Ironically, only one of those guys named is currently coaching a team that's in action. Yes, because McLellan has better players and a better team, yet did worse in the playoffs than Babcock. Maybe McLellan's team is better because he's a better coach? As for worse in the playoffs, look at the records in the last six years again... Thanks for helping me out: Detroit made the playoffs despite having an old team riddled with injuries and using many young and untried players to get to playoffs and come within a whisker of beating Tampa. And in the end, they're still out. There isn't one GM in the league who would trade Detroits roster for San Jose, yet babcock has had more success. By success, you mean one more early playoff exit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Ironically, only one of those guys named is currently coaching a team that's in action. Yep. Mclellan has had zero success in the NHL playoffs, his buddy Renney is giving him two gifts in Prague. One is the chance to coach a winer, the other is to give him a bit of time and space to wait for job offers. Maybe McLellan's team is better because he's a better coach? As for worse in the playoffs, look at the records in the last six years again... I know some award Toronto or Vancouver the annual NHL choke award, but San Jose is the winner for several years now. And in the end, they're still out. Feel free to ignore the magic of them getting there at all with so very many injuries and a team of geezers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairieboy43 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 What do you want to talk about. The team is terrible. Has been terrible since Mike Palmateer was in net. End of Story. They should have the best teams in the league. However it seems disaster happens every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Yep. Mclellan has had zero success in the NHL playoffs, his buddy Renney is giving him two gifts in Prague. One is the chance to coach a winer, the other is to give him a bit of time and space to wait for job offers. San Jose won 6 playoff rounds under McLellan. Over the same period Babcock won 7 with 3 of those in McLellan's first year. I know some award Toronto or Vancouver the annual NHL choke award, but San Jose is the winner for several years now. It's the playoffs. S**t happens. Feel free to ignore the magic of them getting there at all with so very many injuries and a team of geezers. The Wings were middle-of-the pack in terms of injuries, though obviously some were important players. But every team has to deal with that. Age-wise, they are on par with Chicago, Pittsburgh and the Rangers. Excuses excuses. Anyway, it's a moot point: it sounds like McLellan is the Oilers' man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 It's the playoffs. S**t happens. McLellan got fired for a reason. A quite specific reason. Babcock coaches ther Olympic team, also for a specific reason. But I doub thet the Oilers structure-old or new- could manage the very strong personal;ity of Babcock. He will want a lot of control, both in Edmonton and AHL Bakersfield. It's a reason that Detroit is so very successful, the NHL and AHL teams play his system so players moving up are interchangeable parts, or at least know exactly what is expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 McLellan got fired for a reason. A quite specific reason. Oh yeah, what was that? Babcock coaches ther Olympic team, also for a specific reason. Yeah, what's that? But I doub thet the Oilers structure-old or new- could manage the very strong personal;ity of Babcock. He will want a lot of control, both in Edmonton and AHL Bakersfield. It's a reason that Detroit is so very successful, the NHL and AHL teams play his system so players moving up are interchangeable parts, or at least know exactly what is expected. Getting those excuses all tuned up, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 McLellan is a good coach. I would be fine with him as the Leafs coach. Or Babcock if it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Oh yeah, what was that? team loaded with good players, no playoff results. Yeah, what's that? best coach in the league Getting those excuses all tuned up, eh? excuses? No, just explaining why Babcock probably won't end up in Edmonton unless he is promised the things I noted on the hockey operations side. And of course a lot of money and term. He will get all those things, but likely not in Edmonton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 team loaded with good players, no playoff results. Already pointed out why this is faulty logic, but you just keep repeating yourself. None so blind as will not see. best coach in the league By what measure? Not results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I dunno, it does seem like the Sharks have underachieved for years, not sure how much of that is McLellan's fault but he must bear some responsibility I would think. Still, it sounds like it's almost a done deal. Hall and Eberle seem to like playing for him at the World Championships, from what I read. To me, the best thing about Todd McLellan is that he's not Dallas Eakins. I think that's an excellent quality to bring to the table, and pretty much a prerequisite to be a successful NHL coach. I was hoping that now that Dallas is out of hockey, he could come back to the forum so that I could continue explaining magnets for him. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 It's sounding like the Leaves have landed Babcock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Leafs get Babcock!!!! Woot! Woot! Woot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/mike-babcock-hired-as-maple-leafs-head-coach-1.3080792Long-term strategy for Leafs watchers: calculate how much money he will still collect after he's fired in two years. From Motown to Hogtown goes Mike Babcock. The much sought-after NHL head coach has left the Detroit Red Wings to join the Toronto Maple Leafs, the latter team announced Wednesday. Babcock reportedly received an 8-year deal worth about $50 million US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/mike-babcock-hired-as-maple-leafs-head-coach-1.3080792 Long-term strategy for Leafs watchers: calculate how much money he will still collect after he's fired in two years. He won't be fired in 2 years because there's no expectation to win right away. Their building through the draft and through young players. The pressure to win won't start until 2017 at the earliest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 How many more years will they be paying Carlisle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 How many more years will they be paying Carlisle? I think just 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) It's really crazy that they're paying almost 3 times more than nearest highest paid coach in the NHL. He'll make more than a huge majority of the players. MLSE can afford it. Edited May 21, 2015 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 The pressure to win won't start until 2017 at the earliest. That is pretty funny. The pressure to win will start May 21, 2015. Reports say that the contract is heavily front loaded and has an out clause for Babcock. Oh my. Shanny what have you done? It's really crazy that they're paying almost 3 times more than nearest highest paid coach in the NHL. McLellan got $3 million per year for five years in Edmonton. Quenneville is reportedly making $2.75 in Chicago. Every coach in the league will eventually get a fat raise because of Babcock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Every coach in the league will eventually get a fat raise because of Babcock. They should just hire the replacement coach now so that he's ready to go when Babs gets fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 That is pretty funny. The pressure to win will start May 21, 2015. Reports say that the contract is heavily front loaded and has an out clause for Babcock. Oh my. Shanny what have you done? McLellan got $3 million per year for five years in Edmonton. Quenneville is reportedly making $2.75 in Chicago. Every coach in the league will eventually get a fat raise because of Babcock. It won't be pressure from ownership or management. Especially if anyone watched the press conference today. They're going to stick to the plan, which isn't a one or two year thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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