Hey let's talk about the Leafs

[Black Dog]

Yes, I get that. But Laforge has not been fired, and he will continue- as will Nicholson now- on locking down and increasing overall revenue for the Oilers Group. It looks like they have just about forced Rexall Place into closure, Northlands has pretty much folded their tent. But there are about 270 nights not taken by the oIlers or Oil Kings at the new barn, and they want them all sold. There are also ancillary business opportunities in the Winter Graden and other enarby Katz properties that will fall to Laforge and Nicholson to maximize.

The Oilers a a hockey have been f***king awful, but as a business LaForge has done a great job. The exec who has what appears to be an undefined role is Lowe.......

Who gives a shit about Pat "fans aren't showing up because of the weather" Laforge? The point is this: Nicholson is now calling the shots for the on-ice product, which is a significant expansion of his responsibilities.

I did not say Fayne was not a legit player, but he is no better than very ordinary. His greatest failing is that he is soft/not physical(14 PIM in 74 games!) and is not a puck mover. His best bit is that he is good defensively, and deserves to be kept. But yes Virginia, he is a journeyman plugger who would be in the third pairing on a real team.

He's a shutdown D who would work on a second pairing on a real team. We know this to be true because that's how New Jersey used him.

Marincin is a fourth year pro and played only 41 games this year on the Oilers, a team gasping for anybody back there that can skate backwards. The only reason he wass back here for the last quarter of the season is that the Oilers just ran out of options because of injuries.

Bubble player and trade bait. Thems the facts.

First: he's a third year pro. 23 years old, 85 NHL games. He's got all the tools to be a solid top 4 defender, but we don't know what he is at this point and I don't trust the current management and scouting group to properly evaluate him. Trading him away at this point would be another loser move for this franchise unless the return was an established top four defender in his prime.

No they play that way because he is allowed and encouraged to carry the puck. When he does, a winger instantly drops back. When Schultz does a rare rush, the other team inevitably ends up with an odd man rush because we are completely clueless and badly coached by a series of rookie NHL people. McTavish has also failed to provide Schultz with a reliable defensive defensive of any quality. Karlsson has had mostly Methot and Wiercioch, a pair of trusty guys who look after things when he takes off.

Schultz has nobody like that, so he rarely employs what got him to the show.

The main difference is Karlsson is a talented player with excellent instincts and phenomenal skating ability that enable shim to transition from attack to defense and back in no time. Schultz is none of those things. He lacks basic positional and situational awareness, he loves to cheat for offense and doesn't give a shit about coming back to help out. He's two years older than Marincin (he'll be 25 this summer) with 200 NHL games under his belt. He is what he is. If anyone should be trade bait, it's him.

Karlsson is a first pairing, Norris-calibre player. Schultz is, at best, a bottom pairing PP specialist who is only Norris calibre in the eyes of his delusional (and hopefully soon to be unemployed) GM.

Are you expecting some 'bold moves'?

I'm expecting that the opening night roster will look very different than the one MacT outlined in his end of year presser, absolutely.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Black Dog

[overthere]

He's a shutdown D who would work on a second pairing on a real team. We know this to be true because that's how New Jersey used him.

Rubbish. New Jersey offered him nothing coming out of his RFA contract, and let him go to free agency for zero return. There is a reason for that. There is also a reason he got $3 million per year on a contract, which is just a bit above the NHL average. Considering everybody pays too much for free agents...... Fayne is barely adequate on a shitty team, no more than that.

Who gives a shit about Pat "fans aren't showing up because of the weather" Laforge?

You're the one blabbing on about how Nicholson taking over every detail of the Oilers operations. Laforge will be the last one to go, since he has done and continues to make plenty of dough for Katz. And that is job one in pro sports: revenue. And Laforge ahs been a rock star with that end. Both Nicholson and Laforge will be spending loads of time turning the new arena district into cash, it is the number one priority.

I don't trust the current management and scouting group to properly evaluate him.

Yes, I'm sure you're much more qualified. Here's an insider thought: his assignment in the offseason last year was to gain 15-20 pounds of muscle because he is another soft dman on a team full of them. he didn't. he was on MacT and Eakins shitlist in September for that. And his play was not inspiring . Trade bait. He's not the answer to any questions.

You'd trade Schultz and keep Marincin. Wow.

the one MacT outlined in his end of year presser,

His end of year stuff(pre McJesus) said he'd keep 80% of the team and his top two pairing was going to be Schultz and Klefbom. We're screwed unless that and a new goalie drop from the heavens. All he has to trade for all those immense holes are draft picks and core players. Guys like Marincin are throw ins to trades.

[Black Dog]

Rubbish. New Jersey offered him nothing coming out of his RFA contract, and let him go to free agency for zero return. There is a reason for that. There is also a reason he got $3 million per year on a contract, which is just a bit above the NHL average. Considering everybody pays too much for free agents...... Fayne is barely adequate on a shitty team, no more than that.

New Jersey didn't like Fayne's game so much they had him playing 20 minutes a night on the way to the Cup finals. They let him walk because they had a bunch of youngsters coming in that were ready. Simple as that.

You're the one blabbing on about how Nicholson taking over every detail of the Oilers operations. Laforge will be the last one to go, since he has done and continues to make plenty of dough for Katz. And that is job one in pro sports: revenue. And Laforge ahs been a rock star with that end. Both Nicholson and Laforge will be spending loads of time turning the new arena district into cash, it is the number one priority.

I was merely correcting your erroneous claim that Nicholson's main job is "going to be getting major revenue happening for the new arena." That was his main job already. Now he's tasked with making sure the team that plays in the new arena isn't a shitshow. That's the change and that's big news.

Yes, I'm sure you're much more qualified.

And you are?

Here's an insider thought: his assignment in the offseason last year was to gain 15-20 pounds of muscle because he is another soft dman on a team full of them. he didn't. he was on MacT and Eakins shitlist in September for that. And his play was not inspiring .

Insider

Yeah, I'm not going to judge a player based on how he was evaluated by the worst GM/coach combo in the entire league.

Trade bait. He's not the answer to any questions.

Nonsense. With McDavid coming in and the need to add veteran (and costly) talent to the team, you need to have value contracts somewhere in the lineup. Marincin would be one of those and has plenty of room to grow.

You'd trade Schultz and keep Marincin. Wow.

Yup. Marincin has potential to offer good value and grow into a important role. He's also taken dumps with more hockey IQ than Jultz has ever shown. Meanwhile, Schultz will be demanding a long term contract for $4-$5 million a year while providing play that barely justifies half that amount. If they can find another GM who is asleep at the wheel or who believes Schultz can become something he's shown no sign or interest in becoming, they need to jump on the chance. Added bonus: getting rid of that guy sends a message to everyone that failure and complacency will no longer be tolerated, as no player embodies the failure, complacency and entitlement prevalent on this team in the past few years more than him.

His end of year stuff(pre McJesus) said he'd keep 80% of the team and his top two pairing was going to be Schultz and Klefbom. We're screwed unless that and a new goalie drop from the heavens. All he has to trade for all those immense holes are draft picks and core players. Guys like Marincin are throw ins to trades.

Winning the lottery has rendered everything that happened before moot.

[overthere]

They let him walk because they had a bunch of youngsters coming in that were ready. Simple as that.

I agree. They let him walk for no return because they had some kids that were better than him

So I guess he isn't a 3 -4 defenceman as you claim, since the Devils hardly have asets to burn.

He was disposable on a bad team. He still is, though we are a worse team.

I was merely correcting your erroneous claim that Nicholson's main job is "going to be getting major revenue happening for the new arena." That was his main job already. Now he's tasked with making sure the team that plays in the new arena isn't a shitshow. That's the change and that's big news.

That is Job One for Nicholson: making money. Same for LaForge. It's pro sports remember, and they have a brand new source of loot. They'll put the A Team on that. You think if Katz was seriously concerned first and foremost about the hockey product when the arena is full of beer swilling customers every night? You don't get to be a billionaire with that kind of stupidity. And his actions support what I say. He has put far more time into the business of business than the business of winning. So far...

Yeah, I'm not going to judge a player based on how he was evaluated by the worst GM/coach combo in the entire league.

And your evaluation is that based on his actual play he is ready for prime time? Wow, how the fan expectations have been devalued the last few years.

Nonsense. With McDavid coming in and the need to add veteran (and costly) talent to the team,

Hasn't that been the case for several years, and an area where the Oiler pro scouts have failed d ismally? McDavid did not change that at all. What he mainly does is perhaps put one of the core group into play in a trade. Dreisatl comes to mind and Yakupov for sure.

Yup. Marincin has potential to offer good value and grow into a important role.

Agreed. In the AHL until he demonstrates he is ready. He starts by putting on some muscle so he can actually win a battle in a corner or box out anybody in an NHL uniform.

[Black Dog]

I agree. They let him walk for no return because they had some kids that were better than him

So I guess he isn't a 3 -4 defenceman as you claim, since the Devils hardly have asets to burn.

He was disposable on a bad team. He still is, though we are a worse team.

So any time a team doesn't reup an unrestricted free agent, taht means they are bad. OK.

That is Job One for Nicholson: making money. Same for LaForge. It's pro sports remember, and they have a brand new source of loot. They'll put the A Team on that. You think if Katz was seriously concerned first and foremost about the hockey product when the arena is full of beer swilling customers every night? You don't get to be a billionaire with that kind of stupidity. And his actions support what I say. He has put far more time into the business of business than the business of winning. So far...

It's funny watching you spin your wheels on this.

And your evaluation is that based on his actual play he is ready for prime time? Wow, how the fan expectations have been devalued the last few years.

I think Marincin is ready to be an NHLer. I'm not about to gift him top minutes or anything; I mean, he's no Justin Schultz. But he's got excellent tools and has already shown flashes of his potential.

Hasn't that been the case for several years, and an area where the Oiler pro scouts have failed d ismally? McDavid did not change that at all. What he mainly does is perhaps put one of the core group into play in a trade. Dreisatl comes to mind and Yakupov for sure.

So you want to put trading highly prized prospects in the hands of those who, by your own admission, have failed dismally in the past. The same group that has consistently failed to develop and retain young, affordable players?

Agreed. In the AHL until he demonstrates he is ready. He starts by putting on some muscle so he can actually win a battle in a corner or box out anybody in an NHL uniform.

Two things your golden boy Justin Schultz has never, ever done.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Peter Chiarelli is in Edmonton today to meet with the Oilers. Now that's bold.

[overthere]

So you want to put trading highly prized prospects in the hands of those who, by your own admission, have failed dismally in the past. The same group that has consistently failed to develop and retain young, affordable players?

The shortcomings on the Oilers, aside from the entire management , are on defence and in goal. We can wait for 5 more years to see how babies like all the AHL defence(including Marincin and all the other failures) pan out, or try to obtain some established players via trade or free agency. Free agents are expensive, and the good ones don't want to play in Edmonton. Nobody is going to give us anybody for a package of future second and third rounders.

The trade choices for us are core players or draft picks or both.

The choice to trade anybody is already in the hands of Oilers management, and those choices do not change no matter who is in charge. Note that in five years while waiting for players to perhaps develop, the core group will be at free agency themselves.

And that is what McJesus makes happen: an expendable young forward to get a decent defenceman. Now. Not in never never time like Marincin.

Duh.

[overthere]

Peter Chiarelli is in Edmonton today to meet with the Oilers. Now that's bold.

The question is: who invited him, who did he talk to, and why?

It might be bold, but I really doubt it was Mr Bold MacT that invited him.

[Black Dog]

The shortcomings on the Oilers, aside from the entire management , are on defence and in goal. We can wait for 5 more years to see how babies like all the AHL defence(including Marincin and all the other failures) pan out, or try to obtain some established players via trade or free agency. Free agents are expensive, and the good ones don't want to play in Edmonton. Nobody is going to give us anybody for a package of future second and third rounders.

Garth Snow got a starting goalie and two top 4 D for nothing but middling draft picks and cash money. There's a lot of teams that will be looking at cap crunches this year who will need to unload contracts for futures. Fact is most established players that get moved are moved for futures. Hockey trades like the Kane trade are noteworthy precisely because they are so very rare.

All in all, trading one of the core or any of the high-end prospects like Draisaitl are moves you make when you've exhausted all other avenues. I happen to think a change in management and the McDavid acquisition would go a long way to make Edmonton a more attractive FA destination.

The question is: who invited him, who did he talk to, and why?

It was obviously Bob Nicholson (you know: the arena salesman ).

It might be bold, but I really doubt it was Mr Bold MacT that invited him.

Well yeah, since it's quite likely PC take shis job or his boss's.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Black Dog

[overthere]

All in all, trading one of the core or any of the high-end prospects like Draisaitl are moves you make when you've exhausted all other avenues.

They aren't going to get premium players via free agency. Good players can play anywhere, and the only way to get them here is to offer way too much money.- and everybody else will give them lots of money. About the only one the Oilers have had any luck with in recent times is Pouliot. Drafting and developing players , especially goalies and defence, usually means a few years before you know if you have anything. The mood is way t0o ugly in Edmonton to wait a few years for anything.

If you want to get quality, you have to give quality and the only quality that Edmonton has is in young forwards.

And now they have another really good one.

Their top six next year will look like Hall, Eberle, RNH,McJesus, Purcell,Yakupov, Pouliot, Dreisatl. Oh wait, that is 8 , not 6.

Their defenceman are jointly named Bring In The Clowns.

MacTavish will trade on or more of those 8, and try to sweeten the deal with draft picks and perhaps a giveaway defenceman since we have several on the team and in the AHL.. Purcell and Yakupov have the least value.

[Black Dog]

They aren't going to get premium players via free agency. Good players can play anywhere, and the only way to get them here is to offer way too much money.- and everybody else will give them lots of money. About the only one the Oilers have had any luck with in recent times is Pouliot. Drafting and developing players , especially goalies and defence, usually means a few years before you know if you have anything. The mood is way t0o ugly in Edmonton to wait a few years for anything.

If you want to get quality, you have to give quality and the only quality that Edmonton has is in young forwards.

And now they have another really good one.

And plenty of high picks (an extra first and a couple of seconds in this year's deep draft) and the cap space to take on another team's bloated contract. You keep forgetting: cap space is as much an asset for teams as warm bodies. Like I said, if you go in with the mindset that you are gonna deal one of your blue chippers, you're an easy mark.

Their top six next year will look like Hall, Eberle, RNH,McJesus, Purcell,Yakupov, Pouliot, Dreisatl. Oh wait, that is 8 , not 6.

Yeah, it's called "depth." I know it's been a while, but it's an important thing for teams to have.

MacTavish will trade on or more of those 8, and try to sweeten the deal with draft picks and perhaps a giveaway defenceman since we have several on the team and in the AHL.. Purcell and Yakupov have the least value.

MacTavish won't be around to screw this up by doing what you suggest.

[Black Dog]

Chiarelli expected to be announced as new President of Hockey Ops (Lowe's old job) today. Expect Lowe to either be shunted out completely or moved to the arena side of the business. I expect Chia will want his own people in at GM so MacT probably gets bumped to some meaningless VP role. Oh and the scouting staff should probably get their resumes in order. Great times to be an Oilers fan!

Edited April 24, 2015 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Yes, I get that. But Laforge has not been fired, and he will continue- as will Nicholson now- on locking down and increasing overall revenue for the Oilers Group.

Ahem.

[overthere]

Yeah, saw that last night.

Laforge has done a great job with the business side of the team.

We'll see what happens to Lowe. I expect he'll be in an even lower profile job than now. Katz won't trust him with the money side of it, Lowe has no experience with it at all. If he does get a title on that side, it won't mean anything other than a way to save face.

MacT is a tougher one, I hope the Oilers don't go the way of the Leafs and start firing people in reverse order.

Fire everybody would be my preference, with the exception of Laforge.

Great times to be an Oilers fan!

None of it means anything until the Oilers start doing it on the ice. By winning some games. Talk is cheap.

[Black Dog]

Yeah, saw that last night.

Laforge has done a great job with the business side of the team.

Selling hockey in Edmonton is like selling water in the desert.

We'll see what happens to Lowe. I expect he'll be in an even lower profile job than now. Katz won't trust him with the money side of it, Lowe has no experience with it at all. If he does get a title on that side, it won't mean anything other than a way to save face.

Sounds like he's moving over to the OEG side, so yeah, he'll be gladhanding around the new arena.

MacT is a tougher one, I hope the Oilers don't go the way of the Leafs and start firing people in reverse order.

If MacT is retained, he'll be a lame duck.

None of it means anything until the Oilers start doing it on the ice. By winning some games. Talk is cheap.

Shaking up an ossified front office that has been in place for a decade is the polar opposite of "talk". This is hands down the most significant offseason for the Oilers since 2005-06 and we haven't even hit the draft yet.

[overthere]

Selling hockey in Edmonton is like selling water in the desert.

Laforge did far more than sell hockey. He has generated and milked every revenue stream. The Oilers bought the Trappers and sold them when they had to for a profit. The Oil Kingss have made money under his tenure. He negotiated new and very favourable terms for the old leases at Rexall and was a big part of Katz risking very little to guarantee control and big future revenue streams from the arena district .

If MacT is retained, he'll be a lame duck.

Yeah, Toronto style. They need to hire a coach soon, while they are still available. I'd guess Julien as a contender, except repor tedly his relationship with Chiarelli is not strong. Do they hire a coach then fire MacT? That only works if Chiarelli then slides directly into GM position. Why not just fire the GM now and let Chiarelli pick a coach directly. Accountability.....

Shaking up an ossified front office that has been in place for a decade is the polar opposite of "talk".

I've been listening to this bullshit for a long time.

Results.

Period.

On the ice.

I know they are not SC contenders and not even close to playoff contenders.

But the team has not improved for many years.

Talk is cheap.

[Black Dog]

Laforge did far more than sell hockey. He has generated and milked every revenue stream. The Oilers bought the Trappers and sold them when they had to for a profit. The Oil Kingss have made money under his tenure. He negotiated new and very favourable terms for the old leases at Rexall and was a big part of Katz risking very little to guarantee control and big future revenue streams from the arena district .

And now he's out.

Yeah, Toronto style. They need to hire a coach soon, while they are still available. I'd guess Julien as a contender, except repor tedly his relationship with Chiarelli is not strong. Do they hire a coach then fire MacT? That only works if Chiarelli then slides directly into GM position. Why not just fire the GM now and let Chiarelli pick a coach directly. Accountability.....

McLellan will get a look. Once the playoffs are over, they'll have even more options (eg. Babcock).

I've been listening to this bullshit for a long time.

Results.

Period.

On the ice.

I know they are not SC contenders and not even close to playoff contenders.

But the team has not improved for many years.

Talk is cheap.

Again: this isn't talk. This is actual action. Not sure how you can't tell the difference.

[Black Dog]

BTW Laforge might have been good at squeezing every last thin dime out of Oilers fans and Edmonton taxpayers, but he's the same scumbag who mused openly about moving the team, so eff that guy.

[overthere]

but he's the same scumbag who mused openly about moving the team, so eff that guy.

don't forget to curse Katz then- you know, the owner who later apologized in full page newspaper ads for that 'moving the team' business ploy.

You're delusional if you think that was Laforges idea.

Perhaps they are bringing in Ciarelli so Lowe doesn't have to fire MacT and Katz doesn't have to fire Lowe. Optics amongst friends.

[Black Dog]

don't forget to curse Katz then- you know, the owner who later apologized in full page newspaper ads for that 'moving the team' business ploy.

You're delusional if you think that was Laforges idea.

Katz is a scumbag too. Lots of pricks in that front office.

Perhaps they are bringing in Ciarelli so Lowe doesn't have to fire MacT and Katz doesn't have to fire Lowe. Optics amongst friends.

As long as they are fired or pushed elsewhere, I don't care.

[overthere]

well that is sorted, since Chiarelli took both titles from Lowe and MacTavish.

Neither got officially fired, but they don't have their old jobs any more.

[overthere]

Babcock, Hitchcock and McLellan all on the 'looking for jobs ' list.

Mmmmmmm

[guyser]

Babcock, Hitchcock and McLellan all on the 'looking for jobs ' list.

Mmmmmmm

I like em all for my team.

Hitch was one I wavered on, but his bosses didnt listen when he said they need goaltending,,,,three years in a row and they lost because of it.

So yeah, Id take him, but we'd need to get a goalie and they are in short supply.

[overthere]

The major reservation about Hitchcock is his age. He is 63.

That is kind of ancient in the NHL today.

I'm not sure about McLellan. He has not won a lot of games that matter as a head coach in the league.

Babcock is the Gold Standard Coach, globally .

As a head coach he has won a Stanley Cup, World Championship, 2 Olympic Golds, a CIS championship and a W#orld Junior. Nobody else has done that. Surefire Hall of Fame stuff.

[guyser]

Babcock is the Gold Standard Coach, globally .

As a head coach he has won a Stanley Cup, World Championship, 2 Olympic Golds, a CIS championship and a W#orld Junior. Nobody else has done that. Surefire Hall of Fame stuff.

yes he is.

And prior to shit show rewarding Edmonton, I would have thought Babcock would highly entertain a move to TO.

But not so much now. Oilers should....should...have a very bright future and I can see why one would sign up there. Now Mrs. Babcock I am not so sure.