naomiglover Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 International war laws? What do you have against international war laws? Or even what you call clumsily "international waters laws " what do you have against those too? Yes. Thank you for correcting the typo. You didn't answer me. Why are you championing international water laws while continuously justifying violations of other international laws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why didn't Canada accept the jewish refugees in boats, like the ones on S.S. St. Louis? All this sounds like hand washing of the problem. "Well, they're not helping either, so why should we?" Meanwhile poor people can just starve, because of a bunch of thugs who ruined it for them in their own country, and a bunch of callous people who couldn't care less, everywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) I have waited to make a comment on this until I could have some reasonable degree of confidence in what happened. The comments I read early on from both sides seemed rather unlikely. While I still do not have the whole story by any means, the videos I've seen, both taken by demonstrators and by the Israeli military, as well as from a reutors source aboard one of the IDF ships seems to be pretty clear on one thing: the activists did NOT resist peacefully as they had claimed they would do. Not on this one ship. The videos show IDF personnel being mobbed by people wielding iron bars and clubs the moment they landed on the ship. I don't know if the activists simply thought that with hundreds and hundreds of them on board they could overwhelm the small number of IDF people, but if so they failed to realize that bringing clubs to a gun fight is a recipe for disaster. For those who say that there should have been some other way of dealing with people who were armed with simple clubs and pipes (presuming we discount what the Israelis said about them having firearms) you should be cognizant of the fact that someone attacking a cop in Toronto with an iron bar would be shot just as quickly. And given the way the IDF people were mobbed as soon as they touched down I find it difficult to discount the Israeli claim that guns were taken off at least two of their people and used. No sympathy for the ones who died from what I've seen thus far. It looks very much like the IDF was entirely justified in defending themselves. Examine the video on the CBC page below. CBC news Edited May 31, 2010 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lictor616 Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Ya think? Killing 34 and wounding 171 crewmembers on the USS Liberty over 40 years ago worked out just fine. "International law" is an oxymoron. I'm surprised that you knew about the infamous USS liberty attack. The americans did nothing then, what do you think they'll do now? ... absolutely nothing of course... just keep wasting more funds on the gangster state of israel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm surprised that you knew about the infamous USS liberty attack. The americans did nothing then, what do you think they'll do now? ... absolutely nothing of course... just keep wasting more funds on the gangster state of israel What's the better option in the region? Be specific.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCMan Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I don’t think you should argue anymore. As I said earlier all you do is rant. I would be surprised if you got a high school diploma. You have no knowledge of any historical events or facts, you don’t know anything about international relations, and know nothing about international laws. Nevertheless, I will quiz you if you want to prove yourself. What is the legality of Israel’s blockade of Gaza? Would you mind repharsing this in a coherent fashion....? I agree of course "Blockade has to be respected but violation of international waters never" We should not respect violation of international waters. Good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm surprised that you knew about the infamous USS liberty attack. ...and I'm surprised that you missed this opportunity for yet more Jew baiting. The americans did nothing then, what do you think they'll do now? ... absolutely nothing of course... just keep wasting more funds on the gangster state of israel The Americans will do what they want...you only get to watch from the peanut gallery. Wanna change the status quo?...go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm surprised that you knew about the infamous USS liberty attack. The americans did nothing then, what do you think they'll do now? ... absolutely nothing of course... just keep wasting more funds on the gangster state of israel Still waiting for the better option in the region? Please be specific.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 I cannot wait for you to start shouting "kill the damned Jews" - is that next? Oh for fuck sakes...NO, that's what got us here in the fricken first place. Christ on a stick...some people sure are dumb as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 The powerful Western nations--who have objectively behaved far worse than Hamas, including in its oft-repeated material support for terrorists (some of whom were also objectively worse than Hamas)--recruited Nazis after the Second World War. But our Nazi coalitions were...different...somehow....oh yeah! that magical, talismanic phrase: "The Cold War"! All is forgiven. Given our support--both material and ideological--for terrorism far worse than anyhting in the most ambitious dreams of the most fanatical Hamas members; and given that this is open, public knowledge, meaning we have zero excuse not to know about it...I'm afraid I don't take all this sanctimonious moral denunciation of Hamas seriously. No sober, thinking, moral person should. It's embarassing. Thanks for being on watch when and where it really counts. The fog sure gets thick in these parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 The Israelis have a blockade to prevent materials that can be used by Hamas for warmaking purposes from entering Gaza. The IDF did its duty in enforcing the blockade. There are plenty of legal ways for aid to enter Gaza, any of which could have been used by these "activists" if their goal really was to provide the Palestinians with aid. The reality is they were simply there to provoke an incident and try to make Israel look bad, which of course is easy to do due to the rampant media bias against Israel. The people on that ship were aspiring "martyrs" and set out to do precisely what they did. Of the 6 ships in the Flotilla, 5 agreed to a peaceful inspection and no violence occurred. On the 6th ship, the people aboard it decided to attack the Israeli soldiers, who then responded properly and defended themselves. Those "civilians" knew exactly what would happen when they decided to attack IDF personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Well, the ship was of Turkish registry, boarded by armed troops in international waters resulting in the deaths of Turkish nationals. Turks are pissed. The next Turkish vessel headed for Gaza will be under Turkish naval escort. I cannot see what Isreal has gained by any of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 ... I cannot see what Isreal has gained by any of this. Blockade inspection of six vessels....just like the mission required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Well, the ship was of Turkish registry, boarded by armed troops in international waters resulting in the deaths of Turkish nationals. Turks are pissed. The next Turkish vessel headed for Gaza will be under Turkish naval escort. I cannot see what Isreal has gained by any of this. Turkey wouldn't dare to try to escort a terrorist convoy into Israeli waters. Israel gained nothing besides the continued enforcement of its blockade, which prevents potential war materials from reaching Hamas. Oh and if there's any doubt what kind of people were on these ships, read this article about the lone Canadian in the convoy: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/canadian-activist-missing-after-ship-raided-by-israel/article1586701/ This "activist" practiced "serving as a human shield" in preparation for going on this convoy. How much clearer could it be what's really going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Blockade inspection of six vessels....just like the mission required. Yes. All is as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Turkey wouldn't dare to try to escort a terrorist convoy into Israeli waters. Israel gained nothing besides the continued enforcement of its blockade, which prevents potential war materials from reaching Hamas. Oh and if there's any doubt what kind of people were on these ships, read this article about the lone Canadian in the convoy: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/canadian-activist-missing-after-ship-raided-by-israel/article1586701/ This "activist" practiced "serving as a human shield" in preparation for going on this convoy. How much clearer could it be what's really going on here. Human shields??? Right out of the Hamas playbook!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Turkey wouldn't dare... Oh, I wouldn't be selling the turks that short. They're like Americans; Thier injured pride is actionable. They'll dare - they have to. This "activist" practiced "serving as a human shield" in preparation for going on this convoy. How much clearer could it be what's really going on here. Wow. How very militant of him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Oh, I wouldn't be selling the turks that short. They're like Americans; Thier injured pride is actionable. They'll dare - they have to. Sure...Canada is much more mature about these things...only goes to war at sea over fish (Great Turbot War with Spain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Turkey wouldn't dare to try to escort a terrorist convoy into Israeli waters. Turkey is no slouch militarily....and now that Greece is out of the picture, they have little to worry about to keep them occupied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Turkey is no slouch militarily....and now that Greece is out of the picture, they have little to worry about to keep them occupied. No they are not... And although they are secular,they are still an Islamic country at heart. I'm not so sure this could'nt turn into a much larger regional conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 No they are not... And although they are secular,they are still an Islamic country at heart. I'm not so sure this could'nt turn into a much larger regional conflict. military capability Turkey is rated ahead of Israel.... and what many don't here arealize is Turkey is a member of NATO..and part of a NATO treaty that says an attack on one member is considered an attack on all members...TURKEY respected that treaty and went to Afghanistan after the USA was attacked in 911...most of the dead in this piracy raid were Turks on a Turkish ship...if Turkey follows up it's threat to escort another aid convoy to Gaza with it's Navy what does Israel do? what does NATO do? what does the USA do?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Turkey is no slouch militarily....and now that Greece is out of the picture, they have little to worry about to keep them occupied. they'll actually have Greek support on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lictor616 Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 (edited) The Americans will do what they want...you only get to watch from the peanut gallery. Wanna change the status quo?...go for it. let me refine that statement. The Israelis will do what they want... Americans only get to watch from the peanut gallery. (and pay for their servitude) can they change the status quo? If we are to judge by your comments: then they will grovel like mangy and famished curs at the feet of their true masters (who aren't american wink, wink). Edited June 1, 2010 by lictor616 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 (edited) Sorry but you guys are way off the mark. Unlike some of its neighbours, Turkey has no interest in conflict with Israel, none whatsoever. Turkey has a few main concerns right now: keeping stability and control of the country (especially the Kurdistan region), and cleaning itself up to improve their argument for EU membership which they have been desperately seeking for years now. Sending off military forces to fight Israel would open up their eastern flanks to rebellion and separation by the Kurds. That would also destabilize Iraq by reviving Iraqi Kurdistan's dreams of independence and unification with Turkish Kurdistan, which would bring the US down hard on the situation. In addition, being involved in a war (anywhere) would destroy their chances of joining the EU. And all this is not to mention that if such a conflict ever happened that Israel would be quickly and decisively victorious. And even if none of this was the case... Turkey would gain what exactly? Nothing whatsoever. They aren't after land in Israel unlike the Arab powers that repeatedly attempted to invade it. A conflict in the region is certainly possible... there is Iran, there is Syria, there is Hamas and Hezbollah. But Turkey? They are gonna sit things out and worry about themselves. They are sane that way unlike much of the Muslim world. Edited June 1, 2010 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Sure...Canada is much more mature about these things...only goes to war at sea over fish (Great Turbot War with Spain). and only if we're sure they wont shoot back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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