GostHacked Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 It proves you listen to Hamas rather than more sensible voices out there. You for one, have not been able to refute my claim. Actions speak louder than words. And Israel does little talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 You for one, have not been able to refute my claim. Actions speak louder than words. And Israel does little talking. Fer goodness sake, you thought there were Israeli settlers and soldiers inside Gaza until I informed you otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Large groups of passengers surrounded soldiers and beat them with metal poles and chairs, and threw one soldier over the side of the ship. Some passengers grabbed pistols from the IDF soldiers and opened fire. As a result of the attacks, seven IDF soldiers were injured, and nine of the passengers were killed. Yes listening only to one side always leads one to an objective informed opinion. Just look where it got us so far. On a different note, imagine a US vessel were to be boarded by obviously hostile foreign military in the international waters, what an idyll of peaceful democracy it would be. Edited May 31, 2010 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Fer goodness sake, you thought there were Israeli settlers and soldiers inside Gaza until I informed you otherwise. Yes, and I corrected myself and agreed with you on that fact, but you still feel the need to keep bringing it up, because you keep using it like ammo against me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Actually it's totally relevant - the ships were cleared by customs and proceeded to Gaza. There were media and EU MPs present the entire trip, Of course, snugglers have never ever loaded contreban on a ship after it has left port. Ever. At this point we don't know exactly what happened, let's not assume we know who got aggressive first at this point, all we have are conflicting reports from reporters and IDF officials. We know exactly who got aggressive first. Running a blockade is an agressive act. Hilarity follows... ?Face it, the IDF is not a trustworthy source. Niether are you but given a choice between Pallywood and the IDF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Running a blockade is an agressive act. Assuming it's legal of course. Hilarity follows... Sometimes it's in the lead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Sez you. No, says international law. Israel is specific what you can send to Gaza. So specific in fact, that when you look at a list of banned items that were revealed in a court challenge recently, it becomes clear this is about punishing Gazans in general, and not Hamas. The only supplies that get through consistently via humanitarian aid agencies are staple grains and basic medicine (ie - bandages) - but even those have been refused if the supplier is commercial. Some of the banned items that have been stopped no matter if the supplier is humanitarian or commercial: Toilet Paper, Soap, Canned Tuna, Potatoes, Olives, Rubbish Bins, Sesame Seeds, Fruit, diapers, etc The blockade isn't about punishing Hamas - it's about punishing all Gazans. That might hold water if Hamas wasn't at war with Israel. Except Hamas isn't at war with Israel. But that's beside the point - either Israel is lying when it claims it's withdrawn from Gaza - or it's breaking international law by conducting military operations in/around territorial waters that aren't their own to enforce their own policy of collective punishment of civilians. The Sri Lankan Army did the same for those trying to help the Tamil Tigers. So you thought it would be a good idea to compare Israel to a rampant human rights abuser? You do realize that the Sri Lankan Army murders civilians, such as newspaper editors that criticize it's operations, right? Not exactly a great outfit for the IDF to aspire to. Edited May 31, 2010 by JB Globe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naomiglover Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Niether are you but given a choice between Pallywood and the IDF... Goldstone Human Rights Watch Amnesty International B'Tselem Those are not Pallywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Assuming it's legal of course. Legal or illegal there is no passive way to run a blockade... The passive way would have been either to dock in Israel or Egypt, as they were invited to do. They didn't.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Goldstone Human Rights Watch Amnesty International B'Tselem Those are not Pallywood. I was thinking of you specifically...but they are actors in the Pallywoood stable, just like you Dub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naomiglover Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Some of the banned items that have been stopped no matter if the supplier is humanitarian or commercial: Toilet Paper, Soap, Canned Tuna, Potatoes, Olives, Rubbish Bins, Sesame Seeds, Fruit, diapers, etc The blockade isn't about punishing Hamas - it's about punishing all Gazans. How do you know Hamas will not seize the diapers and create a rocket out of them? Israel needs to defend itself from those who spit sesame seeds out of a straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naomiglover Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I was thinking of you specifically...but they are actors in the Pallywoood stable, just like you Dub. You are morally and ethically corrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 No, says international law. So specific in fact, that when you look at a list of banned items that were revealed in a court challenge recently, it becomes clear this is about punishing Gazans in general, and not Hamas. Funny, that ain't what your link says.... List of commercial goods allowed for import into Gaza by IsraelApril 2010 Banned...allowed....Damned Zionists!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 You are morally and ethically corrupt. And you are a poo poo head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&eurl=http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk&feature=player_profilepage#! Video taken by IDF naval boat shows the passengers of the Mavi Marmara, one of the ships in the 'Free Gaza' Flotilla, violently attacking IDF soldiers who were trying to board the ship after having sent repeated requests for the boat to change course. Large groups of passengers surrounded soldiers and beat them with metal poles and chairs, and threw one soldier over the side of the ship. Some passengers grabbed pistols from the IDF soldiers and opened fire. As a result of the attacks, seven IDF soldiers were injured, and nine of the passengers were killed. The 'Free Gaza' Flotilla had publicly insisted on their non-violent intentions, however their violent attack on the IDF soldiers was clearly premeditated. They had knives, metal rods, firebombs and other items ready to use. While it looks like there was some violence, I think you have to be an absolute fool to take the IDF's word on all of the facts of the incident, considering that misinformation is an actual policy of their media-relations wing. ie - the whole denial that the IDF was using white phosphorous during the Gaza war, then admitting it only once video surfaced of them blatantly using it. Even if the IDF is right about the actions of the crew once the troops boarded, that would only justify their response to those actions - it would not justify the act of stopping the ship in the first place, if in-fact Israel is not occupying Gaza, as it claims - it has no right to stop ships that do not go through their territorial waters and have been confirmed to not be smuggling anything illegal. This was a lose-lose situation for Israel, precisely because their policy of punishing Gazan civilians is illegal and immoral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) ....In that sense, it was MLK's fault that civil rights protestors had dogs and water canons used on them. After all, if he didn't organize the march, none of that would have happened. Never mind that the state forced people to march because it was violating their human rights . . . Glad you brought that up....now what else can the Palestinian protesters learn from American civil rights "marches"? Edited May 31, 2010 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Legal or illegal there is no passive way to run a blockade... The passive way would have been either to dock in Israel or Egypt, as they were invited to do. They didn't.... Since when did an invitation become a legally binding requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Alright let's play that game. There was this guy named Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini. In 1948 he led the call to war with the new state of Israel rather than taking his part of the Ottoman pie..... Off-topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) It proves you listen to Hamas rather than more sensible voices out there. You're making personal attacks rather than debating. If you're going to behave like this, don't act all shocked when people call you a troll. Edited May 31, 2010 by JB Globe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Since when did an invitation become a legally binding requirement? That's a non sequitor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I think you have to be an absolute fool to take the IDF's word on all of the facts of the incident I feel the same way about your claim of banned goods.... List of commercial goods allowed for import into Gaza by IsraelApril 2010 Source: Confidential information from international groups (The list refers to goods brought in by commercial importers. Humanitarian organisations, including UN agencies, also bring goods into Gaza. They have consistently been allowed to bring in staple foods and medicines, while other items are approved or rejected on a case-by-case basis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Of course, snugglers have never ever loaded contreban on a ship after it has left port. Ever. With media and elected members of parliament on board and sailing non-stop? I'm not aware of any such incident - are you? We know exactly who got aggressive first. Running a blockade is an agressive act. Hilarity follows... Illegal blockade . . . You forgot to mention that it's illegal. Niether are you but given a choice between Pallywood and the IDF... I shouldn't have to explain this one to you, but apparently I do. I am not a source - I am simply an individual quoting from sources, which include so far: - Al-Jazeera English, which had a reporter on board the lead ship - The largest daily paper in Israel - The Toronto Star - BBC - Reuters - The Telegraph If you have an issue with the facts I've presented so far - let's have a go shall we? Tell me which ones are wrong and we'll debate them. Otherwise, stop being a hack and using personal attacks - it makes your argument look weak, and puts you close to troll-territory. And I don't respond to trolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 That's a non sequitor... So is Israel I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Another point of view... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Funny, that ain't what your link says.... That's exactly what the link says. These items were banned until the date listed. Meaning that, for example - shoes were banned until this past March, yes, shoes. And dangerous items such as coriander are still banned. Israel is responding to the damning criticism of this blockade by letting in a few more items at a time. It would probably make more sense to just end the blockade entirely, but that of course doesn't play well to the religious fundamentalists and neo-cons that support Bibi's government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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