M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 If you have an issue with the facts I've presented so far - let's have a go shall we? Tell me which ones are wrong and we'll debate them. I did. Why did you ignore them? Why did they not recognise their own white flag? They are either Darwin award candidates or they did it to intentionally provoke a violent reaction. Of course, snugglers have never ever loaded contreban on a ship after it has left port. Ever. I'm not aware of any such incident - are you? Surely you jest...? Or are you playing dumb? Dallas seized 450 pounds of the drugs when theythwarted an attempt by smugglers to drop five bales of cocaine from an airplane to a small-smuggling vessel March 21 in the Caribbean Sea. http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/posted/586/CoastlineDraftDrugOffloadBrzuska.164882.pdf Loading prohitbited goods on a cargo ship after it has cleared port is one of the oldest methods known...they were doing it in the 1500s...which means by now even the Palestinians know about it...and it completely aquashes your red herring about being precleared elsewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Glad you brought that up....now what else can the Palestinian protesters learn from American civil rights "marches"? Well, in the West Bank town of Budrus they learned that non-violent protests can succeed in getting you what you want and had the route of the security fence changed so that Israel wouldn't confiscate their olive grove, and as a result the PA has thrown their support behind such movements for the first time. The growing appeal of non-violence is the reason why Ghandi's grandson was in the WB a few days ago, and why MLK III is set to arrive later this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I feel the same way about your claim of banned goods.... That list was from an Israeli court document obtained by the BBC. Either admit the list was legit or never use the BBC as a source of anything again. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Last I checked, Hamas and Israel are enemies. WTF does one expect if you try and run a blockade to bring aid to Israel's sworn foe? Milk and cookies? They were apparently supposed to put in at an Israeli port if they wanted a favorable reaction from the IDF. Dollars to donuts, the people who put thisd convoy together knew exactly what they wanted...and got it. Precisely... Perhaps it's time for the Hamas headquarters to get another "wake up call"... And while we are at it,buzz Bashir Al-Assad's palace on the Mediteranean and show him the underside of the fighter jets wings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 That list was from an Israeli court document obtained by the BBC. Either admit the list was legit or never use the BBC as a source of anything again. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you? I know I would not claim a list of goods allowed was a list of goods banned.... I wouldn't want to be considered a propagandist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I did. Why did you ignore them? Why did they not recognise their own white flag? Because I still don't know what happened, and neither do you, except to say that standard procedure was not followed by the Israeli Navy. And I refuse to make up my mind about what happened until I ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. All I said is that the reporter's accounts conflict with the IDF, and I juxtaposed with that the fact that the IDF should not be considered a trustworthy source considering specific incidents in the past where they've blatantly lied about military operations (ie - white phosphorous) Surely you jest...? Or are you playing dumb? http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/posted/586/CoastlineDraftDrugOffloadBrzuska.164882.pdf Apparently you're playing dumb. I asked you to provide an example of a ship containing media and elected members of parliament that was cleared by customs at it's point of origin and sailing non-stop to it's destination that was later found to contain illegal cargo. You failed. The part about the media & MP's was key - because they're watchdogs that would have witnessed the boat stopping and then being boarded by people from another boat who were carrying new cargo inside, but according to the reports that were coming off the ship, this didn't happen. Face it - this boat was clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 The confusion here is that JB Globe put up a list of allowed items mistakenly saying it was a list of banned items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Well, in the West Bank town of Budrus they learned that non-violent protests can succeed in getting you what you want and had the route of the security fence changed so that Israel wouldn't confiscate their olive grove, and as a result the PA has thrown their support behind such movements for the first time. Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Folks...we have a winner! The growing appeal of non-violence is the reason why Ghandi's grandson was in the WB a few days ago, and why MLK III is set to arrive later this week. Great...amybe they can work on that Katyusha rocket thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I know I would not claim a list of goods allowed was a list of goods banned.... Those goods were banned goods, however. Meaning that for about two and a half years, potatoes were considered such a security threat that they were banned in Gaza until this past December. What does banning potatoes have to do with hurting Hamas? Nothing. It has everything to do with punishing civilians, which is illegal. But of course, we don't want to talk about that, because you really don't have anything to legitimize this policy of Israel's. Instead you'll spend your time trying to discredit my sources. Your realize that the ends don't justify the means in this case? If the policy is illegal and immoral, it doesn't matter what kind of PR campaign you run - people eventually side with justice and compassion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Instead you'll spend your time trying to discredit my sources. You will have to show me where I tried to discredit your source...I'm pretty sure I was spending time discrediting your use of the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 The confusion here is that JB Globe put up a list of allowed items mistakenly saying it was a list of banned items. Again, they were banned items. ie - potatoes were banned until December 2009. My point is why would you ban foods like potatoes if not to punish civilians? This is a blockade against ordinary Gazans, not against Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Off-topic. There is no such thing as 'off topic' re: history. Face it, the Palestinian cause, of which Hamas and Hezbollah are the current standard-bearers, is part of the Palestinian Arab legacy which started out with the good ol' Grand Mufti Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini...a Nazi SS-Obergruppenfuhrer and one of the chief figures in the Holocaust. His nephew headed the PLO...you might recall him...Yasser Arafat. Why you folks like to write his portion of human history out is understandable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUEx1cKUlg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Great...amybe they can work on that Katyusha rocket thing. Hamas is a different animal, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Because I still don't know what happened, and neither do you, except to say that standard procedure was not followed by the Israeli Navy. And I refuse to make up my mind about what happened until I ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. Youre first two posts indicate that the above is false. All I said is that the reporter's accounts conflict with the IDF, and I juxtaposed with that the fact that the IDF should not be considered a trustworthy source considering specific incidents in the past where they've blatantly lied about military operations (ie - white phosphorous) Like this one.... Apparently you're playing dumb. I asked you to provide an example of a ship containing media and elected members of parliament that was cleared by customs at it's point of origin and sailing non-stop to it's destination that was later found to contain illegal cargo. You failed. Oh another if they didn't see it it couldn't have happened? If a bear shits in the wooods. and you can't smell it, does it still attract flies? The part about the media & MP's was key - because they're watchdogs that would have witnessed the boat stopping and then being boarded by people from another boat who were carrying new cargo inside, but according to the reports that were coming off the ship, this didn't happen. Face it - this boat was clean. Clean or not clean...there is a blockade...sort of like saying, I'm going for a stroll in a mine field....I should be okay cause I have flowers.... Who suggested a boat had to stop? Who suggested that the VIPs were on the bridge 24/7? Lets face it, you don't know what you are talking about but it ain't stopping you one bit. Edited May 31, 2010 by M.Dancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hamas is a different animal, unfortunately. OK, but Israel is not managing a zoo. They are defending a nation against "different animals". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 No food, medicine, shelter for you Gazans! This is what the apologists like Dancer, Dogonporch and American Woman are supporting. Why are you not shouting at the Arabs in Egypt who refuse to open their borders? Is it because you are the apologist and refuse to see that even Arabs do not want Hamas in their midst. Arabs are also causing Gazans harm. But of course you would not want that to be mentioned would you? I cannot wait for you to start shouting "kill the damned Jews" - is that next? Sigh - you Canuckleheads are such bigotted and one sided pussies - but you will of course deny that. Israel has promised all aide will get to Gaza after inspection - there will be such a media blitz that they cannot do anything less. Relax and take a midol - sounds like you need one. Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCMan Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Ok dancer, I promised you we will be dancing soon. That’s the excuse you find for the killing of unarmed activists? It seems that you are ignorant of the facts and what really happened, have you actually read a single article about this issue? it seems you have been so brainwashed by your high school music club that you lost your sense of judgement. I haven’t seen you provide one valid argument in this thread against facts. It’s clear that the IDF prepared for several weeks for this mission to send a threatening message to the world. “We can do whatever we want”. Your thought process is like this: International always applies if it benefits dancing and they are shit if they don’t (Blockade has to be respected but violation of international waters never). You gota fix your arguments I will wait for more information before making further comments. ..........Loading prohitbited goods on a cargo ship after it has cleared port is one of the oldest methods known...they were doing it in the 1500s...which means by now even the Palestinians know about it...and it completely aquashes your red herring about being precleared elsewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCMan Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Borg, you are referring to anyone against Israel is anti-Semitic. We know they had a bad history but that is no excuse for making other people’s lives more miserable. How would anyone feel if they lived in a prison where they are not allowed to feed themselves and their resources are only limited to what the guards decide. Try this: You are not allowed to eat at Mcdonalds for the next 2 years, doing that will because you pain. I promise you will lose Wight but you are not allowed to have 1 cup of milk per day that is with one tea spoon of sugar. You can’t have anyone trying to rescue you, report back in 2 years. Why are you not shouting at the Arabs in Egypt who refuse to open their borders? Is it because you are the apologist and refuse to see that even Arabs do not want Hamas in their midst. Arabs are also causing Gazans harm. But of course you would not want that to be mentioned would you? I cannot wait for you to start shouting "kill the damned Jews" - is that next? Sigh - you Canuckleheads are such bigotted and one sided pussies - but you will of course deny that. Israel has promised all aide will get to Gaza after inspection - there will be such a media blitz that they cannot do anything less. Relax and take a midol - sounds like you need one. Borg Edited May 31, 2010 by BCMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why are you not shouting at the Arabs in Egypt who refuse to open their borders? Is it because you are the apologist and refuse to see that even Arabs do not want Hamas in their midst. Arabs are also causing Gazans harm. But of course you would not want that to be mentioned would you? I cannot wait for you to start shouting "kill the damned Jews" - is that next? Sigh - you Canuckleheads are such bigotted and one sided pussies - but you will of course deny that. As if anyone--anyone in the world--is more dainty and delicate than the servile, reactionary Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Goldstone Human Rights Watch Amnesty International B'Tselem Those are not Pallywood. And as if the IDF is incapable of propaganda and deception. You're arguing with fanatics, naomiglover. Edited May 31, 2010 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 And as if the IDF is incapable of propaganda and deception. You're arguing with fanatics, naomiglover. Are you denying Pallywood exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Are you denying Pallywood exists? I'm denying that Palestinian propaganda is produced with the careful, expert methods of deception in which the wealthy democracies reign supreme. After all, contemporary political propaganda as we understand the term was invented by the British and Americans. In other words, no, I am not denying the existence of any propaganda. Are you? Edited May 31, 2010 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm denying that Palestinian propaganda is produced with the careful, expert methods of deception in which the wealthy democracies reign supreme. After all, contemporary political propaganda as we understand the term was invented by the British and Americans. In other words, no, I am not denying the existence of any propaganda. Are you? So you do deny it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) So you do deny it... Hey, little drooler, you quoted me saying that I don't deny it. Read. Edited May 31, 2010 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hey, little drooler, you quoted me saying that I don't deny it. Literacy issues? I hear Hamas sells flowers door to door to raise money for sick kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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