waldo Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Geez...you guys are still getting hosed on gas prices ? Today it is $0.78 per litre in my neck of the U.S. woods, and the oil/dilbit comes from Canada. Must be those pesky taxes, eh ? they're called social programs... your claimed country should give them a try... attempt to improve the U.S. dead last health care system... attempt to turn-around that U.S. obesity epidemic, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 they're called social programs... your claimed country should give them a try... attempt to improve the U.S. dead last health care system... attempt to turn-around that U.S. obesity epidemic, etc.Let it go. He pays a shit ton more prop tax than we do, altho home prices are so depressed there I guess the low dollar amount makes up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 That's OK...as described above...it takes a lot of capital from the U.S. and other nations for Canada to even get to "our oil". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Let it go. my bad! It's too easy/inviting to fuel the beast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 The higher the price of gas, the smaller the cars get in North America, think the two are working together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 The higher the price of gas, the smaller the cars get in North America, think the two are working together? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Here's another take on the subject http://www.examiner.com/article/as-secret-saudi-deal-increases-harm-to-russian-currency-china-intervenes WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 You base that on what? based on the fact that franchise retailers cannot afford to sell fuel for less than they pay for the fuel, not for more than a very short time. They cannot buy fuel anywhere except from their brand, and cannot sell for more than the standard markup because nobody will buy from them, so effectively their retail price is locked down too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 A least gas prices are going down. Diesel prices haven't. gasoline is a consumer product, and is very volatile in pricing. NOTHING in the tanks or distribution system is going to be replaced in minutes, so the price is moving based upon some pre-emptive moves by the distribution chain. For gasoline, it is all about market share - without getting so aggressive so as to pi$$ off your competitor and start a price war. That decision is seldom, if EVER made at the station level, because for either an independent or franchise, the margins are so slim that they just don't have the kind of room to play. Can't give you the RUG prices (don't know, don't care), but for diesel, you can buy it by the shipload for about $0.72 Cdn a litre, a few cents more for ULSD, so let's say $0.75. BUT: that litre is in a tank in Rotterdam (or eslewhere). Crude oil (WTI) is about $0.50 Cdn a litre. So, getting it to the refinery, refining it, and getting it into a major distribution hub happens for about $0.25/litre. I can tell you that there is virtually NO profit from merchant refining in North American market - only really works if you are processing your own feedstock. From what I have seen, Canadian refiners will sell for about the same price as Platt's in Rotterdam, so let's assume it is in tanks in Edmonton at that price. The total fuel taxes in SK (where I live) are around $0.38/litre, so we are now at $1.13, and the wholesaler has to buy it, transport it to market and then the retailer has to make his money all on about $0.07 (against current $1.20 price). This is why I am telling you that there just isn't a lot to play with at the end of the downstream chain when it comes to supply/demand. Upstream, the price of crude oil is in the hands of the banks, not oil companies. Even though most of the oil produced is NOT traded on commodities exchanges, the prices are imposed upon the industry by financial institutions, not some industry controlled marketing pool. This is due to OUR deference to Casino Capitalism as the economy of the world today, rather than the actual business of doing business on Main Street (where even Big Oil once played). Imagine how a small, independent US oil producer who has to pick up the crumbs under the table of the majors and has a genuine cost of production of around $70 a bbl (normal for mature fields in secondary recovery) when "his" VP strokes a deal with Saudi that will slash the value of a barrel to $80 or less (which means well under $70 at the wellhead)???? BTW: at the height of demand for crude in general, the lack of transportation in the West meant that all of the new production was discounted about 50% at the wellhead. That published WCS price is NOT what the producers all got. I guess what I am trying to say is that the oil business is very, very complex. Pricing is dependent upon all kinds of factors that have very little to do with market economics. For example: 15 years ago, WTI was $10US, and RUG in US sold for $1. at 10:1 ratio. Today, when crude oil was $100, Yankee doodle dandies were wallowing down the Beltway in their SUVs at over $4 a gallon, a 25:1 ratio. Imagine Joe consumer if he was grossing 40% his paycheque today vs. 1999? Sorry to barge in here with nothing but some cold hard facts, but when someone brought this thread to my attention, thought it might be interesting to join a Canadian political site (haven't found many and US ones are just about the Uniparty inhouse bickering) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 The higher the price of gas, the smaller the cars get in North America, think the two are working together? Absolutely, here or anywhere else in the world. Europeans drive intelligent vehicles because fuel is double what it is in Canada. When the last price collapse of crude oil put gasoline down to a buck, Yanks went hog wild buying SUVs and pickups (also some driven by tax break for big pig commercial vehicles that forced most corporate buyers who would have sent someone down the road in a small car to put them in a Suburban or one ton truck.) This is the main problem for sustainability when oil prices and fuel prices fall. We start (or make that CONTINUE) doing really stupid things. Low oil prices make alternatives either non-viable, or dependent upon tax concessions or subsidies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 just a "one-off" example... or, uhhh... Oil companies collude to keep gas price low What's going on? In short, managed distribution. Instead of letting market forces shape the demand for gasoline, the oil industry -- for reasons unclear -- has decided to run the gasoline market the way the old Soviet Union ran shoe production. Forget supply and demand and market forces. The oil company bureaucrats have taken charge of determining who gets what fuel and when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scared.In.Canada Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 The station near my house has been around $1.12/L for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Prices not seen since 2010. Shows people don't know anything about predicting these prices. In the summer people were saying we would see record prices for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 What do you want the government to do? Engage in price fixing or price controls for gas? I don't see the need for the government to do anything. I wouldnt have a huge issue with the government running an alternative like petrocanada used to be. The oil gas equivalent of BC Hydro for example. They would have some advantages as far as pricing because they wouldnt have to pay royalties, and they could operate as non-profits, or use any profit they made to offset other taxes. There are a number of countries with such schemes and pretty much all of them have much lower domestic fuel prices than we do. Im not sure that the privatization of vast wealth in natural resources in exchange for paultry royalties is in our best interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'm not sure that the privatization of vast wealth in natural resources in exchange for paultry royalties is in our best interests.Apparently producing income gaps and stinking wealthy corporations is what's best for us, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) In a month, the price of oil per barrel has gone from about 85 to about 75 bucks. The price of gas per litre has gone done 2 cents after jumping around for a couple of weeks, with a low of 1.09, and is right now 119.09 in Abbotsford, or 129.09 in Vancouver BC. The gas corps are taking profits, plain and simple. I am a conservative, but if JT promised to legislate price controls on gas, I'd vote for him. Canadians have a very dim view of any business that they feel is ripping them off. Even a company like Target, which is certainly not ripping off Canadians, is suffering the pain of being viewed as not providing value. Yet the gas stations are allowed to rip us off, week after week. It's puzzling. Edited November 15, 2014 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Then you're not much of a Conservative. The margin on gasoline, at any level, is so small it's vietually non existant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 You're not doing the math. The cost for them doesn't jump around at all. The cost of oil has gone down about 13% in a month, and they have increased their margins greatly. If your favorite retailer started doing this to you, no doubt you'd be able to see the wrongness of it, at least I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Figures only real Conservatives can make sense of this. Is it safe to assume that when the price of oil goes back up 12 percent that gas will go up by 50? Makes sense to me judging by the logic I've seen offered in defence of being gouged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I've got no idea, but it seems like whatever it does, Canadians will ignore it and whine about America or the weather instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Nobody is getting gouged. Prices are incredibly low right now. I paid 99.9¢ at Costco a few days ago. Even with the slight jump lately, most stations around here are charging $1.06. It was a buck and a half a few years ago. Gas prices today are a huge value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I am puzzled at why you think since the price is good in Winterpeg, therefore it's automatically good across Canada. Did you not see above where I said it's around 1.29/ litre in Vancouver BC? How is that a good price when you pay .99? Help me here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I am puzzled at why you think since the price is good in Winterpeg, therefore it's automatically good across Canada. Did you not see above where I said it's around 1.29/ litre in Vancouver BC? How is that a good price when you pay .99? Help me here. It still used to be a lot more. You're getting a very good deal. Not many things in life fight inflation as hard as gas prices do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'm getting a good deal when you pay .29 less? Ah, never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Ah, that's because BC and Vancouver especially have far more aggressive tax regimes for fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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