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I thought i was dealing with the greatest threat, ourselves, and how divided we have become...

Yes. A bad cold or the seasonal flu can be deadly when you're in you're 90's. But we don't run around in hysterics, shutting down society for them. And no one ever, breathlessly and terrified, called a cold or flu "deadly" before either. Stop the hysterics, lady.

Comparison of Covid to smallpox is ridonkulous. Smallpox had a 30% mortality rate, for children under age 1 it was 40-50%. Covid has an infinitesimally larger IFR than the seasonal flu. I beg to differ on who the "drama queens" and extremists are these days.

The small minority of unvaccinated are a convenient scapegoat for the government right now. People with zero critical thinking skills who blindly follow these leaders down paths of hatred where others are branded "the enemy" and segregated out for special punishment, resemble the citizenry of 1930-40's Germany. I am seeing more and more articles in the MSM that are addressing some of the other aspects to these nuanced problems. I think it's because the narrative for world leaders is falling apart and more and more people are seeing it. Except those who choose not to and continue to live in hate and with penchants for punishing their fellow citizens. FUREY: Here's what's really going on in Ontario hospitals | Toronto Sun I was wondering how long it would be before nurses started speaking up about what's really going on. Glad to see MSM finally picking up on what some of us have been aware of for almost a year now.

there never was a crisis with covid and as the situation improves more restrictions are being imposed not less you're just wrong they are going to keep going with no regards to the actual situation

No they’re all too similar to constitute real choice. All support restrictions and carbon taxes. All are oppressive. There’s no centre or right in Canadian politics. O’Toole would fit right in as a US Democrat.

Thanks. ? so far.

Thanks QOC. I can't believe that this isn't a bigger issue for Canadians. He pretends to be the epitome of tolerance but his ignorance and bigotry is over the top.

The seasonal flu, which we have not been able to eradicate and has nearly the same IFR as covid, is endemic. There will never be a perfect time to drop restrictions. If you look hard enough, there will always be some reason that can be used to justify continued restrictions. Nothing is perfect. Life is not perfect. Life is meant to be lived and this is not living.

comparing the reactions to two very different situations isn't relevant it would only be relevant if the situations were similar

I agree that your future outlook is more realistic rather than my sarcastic reply. However, I believe the people responsible, politicians, medical advisors, doctors and health officers, will operate in their best interest. Meaning the actions taken will be of self interest. If there is a hint of professional misconduct or failure to provide an adequate solution in a timely manner, a "fall guy" will be required. Thus saving the majority of people responsible positions, social status and private wealth. I would argue the more restrictions mandated, the safer the people responsible are, at least legally and socially, for now.

there is a damn good reason kindergarteners don't run the government even Klingons would run a better government go home, you're drunk

If that's true, you should be doubly ashamed for calling Canada a totalitarian state.

You've no clue what living under a totalitarian state is. You just look stupid when you say stuff like this.

In BC per capita people with four or more co-morbidities vastly out number those who don't in hospitals whether vaccinated or unvaccinated vaccination is not the issue co-morbidities are

You made the accusation, I was just responding to it. Now get stuffed. Besides, I am not as polite as Hardner. Haven't you noticed?

We are definitely not the same person and you have no effing idea what constitutes a totalitarian state. We have a multi party system where we can change a government at any time, a constitution and supreme court to oversee it and override any government that violates it.

I'm a big believer in energies. The highest vibration always wins. Stay positive, awake & aware and on course and we can all be victorious over the power and money grubbers.

Yup. The ultimate Swamp Creature has been floated as the replacement for old Joe. Could we be witnessing round 2? Could Hillary-Billary beat Trump?

They were as well in both France & Russia...young and full of great big ideas for fixing society. The thing that they never seem to plan-on is that there is ALWAYS a Stalin waiting to use their pretty ideas against them. No exceptions. It's just the law of the jungle in a moment of chaos...Stalin just does what Stalin does...you're weak...he and his thugs are strong. Meet the new boss.

Nope. If the Dems try that, they'll lose again.

Careful. People who don't know you might not recognize the sarcasm in your post and they'll vastly overrate your intelligence.

The CAQ, which is the party that reigns with an iron fist on Quebec with draconian, baseless laws to 'fight COVID', is beginning to lose voters. A first since 2 years. All the gains are made by parties who are anti measures or anti curfew, while the Liberal Party of Quebec which is as vicious as the CAQ stalls. The curfew, the draconian measures simply are not supported anymore by any age group except the older folks who don't care about the youth, such as the Baby Boomers. https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2022/01/13/sondage-recul-important-des-appuis-de-la-caq

How can you miss the point so completely? Anyway, as my first post in this thread stated, I'm against fines for unvaccinated. I'm also against hysterical statements comparing this Covid situation with Nazi Germany.

Hispanics also understands that Trump was right when he said that MS-13 are animals. They also know that he didn't call all Hispanics animals. Leftists are the most disgusting shit-slingers on the planet.

That's right, and that's not the same as saying that "Hispanics are murderers", so you lied, right before you called Trump a shit-slinger. FYI doctors, engineers, lawyers and people with successful businesses don't swim across the Rio Grande with their children. Those are Mexico's 'best'. Well, their soccer players probably are.

Thanks. I think on the fundamentals we agree. The consequences now of inaction are too big for Canada to ignore. The passage of time has made Canada’s position clear.

I call it was blind but now they see red pilled and based

No it doesn't. Variola vaccines aren't administered generally, without thought on a one size fits all basis. They have side effects that are probably among the worst among vaccines, and are not administered for people under the age of 18 due to its dangerosity to the young.

Politicians screwed us when they whittled away the health care system from what was once the envy of the free world, to the sad (but not much talked about!) joke that it has become. One can google it if one does not remember, didn't care at the time, or's come from away. For example- https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/canadian-health-care-performs-poorly-compared-to-other-countries-worldwide This is the result of failures in decision making over the years, clawing back health care services all the while demanding more funding , and the price of administration went sky high. This is the price for giving hospital administrator positions to rich people's kids, and letting them fuck it up. What is frustrating is that we are now being held accountable for government mismanagement. And that the enfranchised public buys into it. Hook, line and stinker...

No that’s not at all what would happen, and this is the heart of the matter. Let’s suppose we went full bore mandatory vaccination punishable by death, the furthest possible extent of consequence. Now you have to enforce it. Well guess what, there will be very exceptional people who choose to die instead. There will be some who go into hiding like Anne Frank and others who provide fraudulent proof of vaccination. There will also be imperfect enforcement as some people get missed accidentally by the vaccination police. In other words, it probably won’t get you past 99 or 98%. Maybe you reduced ICU admissions by 15% Now, we know that most of the people in the ICU have co-morbidities or are immune-compromised. We know that fully vaccinated people end up there accounting for around three quarters of admissions. We know that vaccination doesn’t cure or eliminate Covid, it just adds resistance to its worst symptoms for most people. The bottom line is that ICU’s will continue to contain people with Covid. Boost ICU capacity and you don’t have to bring in radical mandates and restrictions. But there’s another important consideration here. We have a mostly vaccinated population who are being asked to stick with the ongoing vaccination boost program and most are complying. Yet restrictions and lockdowns are taking place just as they did before vaccines. We have to ask ourselves why we are following the program if there’s no apparent improvement in our social policy. Why are we doing all this if it doesn’t fundamentally improve our situation? I’m for getting vaccinated, but only if restrictions are lifted. You can’t require obedience to a mandate and offer nothing in return. I’d far rather accept the risk of living without restrictions. Government messaging must stop stoking fear and instead encourage people to live with the risk and take the necessary precautions on an individual basis, as people deem fit for them. Right now there are jurisdictions without vaccine mandates, passports, mandatory masking, or other restrictions where people are living free, normal lives. They have focused on treating seriously ill people with the best available treatments and their death rates are similar to ours. The only difference is that they are free and we aren’t. We have to decide to drop this neurotic madness of endless restrictions that don’t eliminate Covid, and shift to personal responsibility and treatment, or else we won’t exit the pandemic, which is really endemic. Better for Omicron to get around to most people and build herd immunity than drag this out waiting for some new variant to shut us down further. End all restrictions, take personal responsibility to protect yourself in accordance with your needs, and treat seriously ill people with the best available treatments, whether they are sick from Covid or anything else. We must decide to brave these risks as a society and return to a much more normal, healthy life or stew in this pandemic mess forever. It’s really a policy choice at this point. Freedom has value and I won’t even get into the subject of fitness and mental health. Our staff shortages are mostly the result of screening out Covid positive people who are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms and their close contacts. End the testing obsession and screening, allow parents to return to work as their kids return to on-site education, and watch staffing shortages abate. Adding more mandates just makes it harder for employers to keep people. Sick people stay home, just as we did pre-pandemic. Hospitals focus entirely on treating serious illness, as they did pre-pandemic. Governments drop restrictions. Focus on acquiring the best treatments and boosting ICU capacity, and encourage vaccination as long as the science supports it.

The European Union, not quite the basement-dwelling anti-vaxer portrayed by CBC, warns about loss in effectiveness of the immune system of those who get boosters for COVID-19 vaccines. --- European Union regulators warned that frequent Covid-19 booster shots could adversely affect the immune response and may not be feasible. Repeat booster doses every four months could eventually weaken the immune response and tire out people, according to the European Medicines Agency. Instead, countries should leave more time between booster programs and tie them to the onset of the cold season in each hemisphere, following the blueprint set out by influenza vaccination strategies, the agency said. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says

That’s the problem with the US, the SCOTUS has become just another political appointment and it is for life.

The fact remains that Sotomayor barfed up blatant stupidity at a level which is extremely alarming for anyone, let alone one of the key decision makers for an entire country. The OP stands undiminished and your drivel is exposed. Now you've abandoned your untenable position and started hurling sandbox insults, as is your wont. This debate has arrived at it's usual outcome. ❤️

It takes exactly one minute to verify how far off any relation to the reality this is: "but about 3 out of every 10 people with the disease died" (CDC) "Same", right. This is the essence of propaganda versus an honest discussion: it is not interested in facts, logic, meaningful arguments. Only to drive its position on everybody, anybody at any cost.

Speaking of history, the same sort of debates happened during smallpox outbreaks when vaccines were mandated. There was no Germany to draw parallels to - a sad state of affairs for the anti-vax brigade - but nonetheless, once the crisis had passed, vaccination status became irrelevant. In Germany under Hitler there was no crisis and one's Jewish roots never became irrelevant. These attempted parallels to Germany are pure hysteria.

Can I fax the untaxinated though ? ?

Oh the irony. You suggesting someone's mind is closed then want to end the discussion because you don't like facts and hearing dissent. How patronising of you. It's typical godbotherer jargon as if prayers have ever done anything. If you believe all the fairy tales in your silly bible, you are the one with self induced darkness or you are blind. If you did pray, how do you know your prayers are answered? Do you get an email or text? Now do you see how ridiculous you theory is? It's all religious bollocks. I suggest you do exclude yourself from any discussion about you imaginary ghost friend. You keep your toys and play with them at home. There's no room in earth for religious clap trap.

because the health care system sucks not the unvaccinated

There’s a segment of society that enjoys sticking it to people. They can’t fathom why people wouldn’t think as they do, but they also refuse others the right to hold a different viewpoint. Right now these are the people who are enjoying restrictions and mandates the most, especially when the penalties are high. Sadistic control freaks.

Oh the tyranny.

First off, I can only assume that Aristides and Hardner are the same person because they think uniformly. The point you or you both don’t seem to appreciate is that our social organization today has little to do with Liberal versus Conservative or commie or whatever cozy label makes you comfortable. You are living under totalitarian conditions that our current Canadian leaders are too weak to overturn. Kenny tried and couldn’t do it. You need a unified, strong organization that values freedom and will work tirelessly to achieve it. I was never a Republican and don’t agree with some of their policies. I’m not even sure these ideas aren’t in the Democratic Party. I just know that a handful of US states are living much as they did pre-pandemic without excessive fear or inordinate risk. We are not. Canadians need to start seriously challenging our policies.

Oh bullshit. You have no clue what constitutes a totalitarian state.

There's a new breed of engaged citizen who equates democracy with consumerism. If they don't get what they came to Costco to purchase they stomp their feet and cry like the three-year old at the birthday party. Politics is compromise and rational discussion... not grandstanding with claims that a slate of centrist liberal parties are authoritarian. We need such people to excuse themselves from the discussion and stop voting.

Name me one multi party communist country. Just because public opinion doesn't support the party or policy of our particular choice doesn't make it a communist state.

Indeed, could not be said better. And so it seems that Covid is a near-perfect distraction from the causes and state of the system due to these problems. So perfect in fact that it's difficult to not think that if it did not come about naturally, it could be created only for that one reason. But OK no evidence of that, I concede. And that of course, goes a long, long way to explaining the rationale for the vaccine drama spectacle that been playing for close to a year now. The moment drums and fanfares go silent, the questions will begin popping up again, and again and again. Not at all difficult to predict that, and guess why?

Yes, Jesus could very well have existed, why not? The reality of this whole story is a completely different matter. Each of us perceives only that information that passes our own filter. And if someone's filter does a great job of describing miracles, well, I can only rejoice. I lack the good old childlike spontaneity that would allow me to believe in everything that the Old Testament offers. Honestly, I enjoy listening to the stories and sermons of firstchurchlove.com parishioners on this topic. More precisely, I like people who believe in it. I really love listening to people who are so passionate about something that they can charge others with this power. And I don’t have to share their opinion, it’s just nice to look at a person who talks about something that is not close to you, and at the same time, he can still be pleasant.

I see you didn't read the article. If you did, you clearly do not comprehend what it is saying. I get it - you love restrictions, you think they're great, you think we should have more of them and forever. Be careful what you wish for.

OK and who else is here that can be held responsible punished for chronic under resourcing and sub par performance of the system that CEOs ministers officers never notice because why would they, what would it change for them? One example right off the airwaves: in October 2020 then President of the US Trump tested positive for Covid and was treated with monoclonal antibody therapy. Since then (well over a year ago) the therapy became a standard preventative treatment in several states. Scroll forward to December 2021 (14 months after first treatments were provided) and a hundred or so patients were treated in a program in Nova Scotia to the great media fanfare of Great Canadian Pioneers. Where it's been a standard treatment for months already, saving lives without daily media drama. This is the kind of system that we have and we made it such intentionally or thoughtlessly that bordering on obscene compensations and entitlements of its managers (from $30,000 monthly, and above - some "front line heroes" would be struggling to make that in a year) have little to no relation to its quality and performance. So what kind of surprises are we expecting here? When and how it could end?

We’re not imprisoning the population indefinitely to satisfy your sadistic hypochondria. End all restrictions immediately. Get the totalitarians out of office.