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I rarely read your shrill posts full of one-liners meant to insult members. Please provide more recent stats to back your claim that reported hate crimes against Muslims now surpass reported hate crimes against Jews.

And not a peep re: Alexandre Bissonnette and his 'motives' lest the whole story come out. "He's a white supremacist, damn-it. Didn't you see the news???"

Yes. I also freely admit that I don't want to import people who believe human sacrifice is part of their religion, or who think the body parts of albinos will cure them of curses, or that their god requires them to always drive on the left side of the road. As soon as you go and live in Saudi Arabia.

You may want to check your "facts" on this. "Hate crimes" against muslims is nowhere near the level of "hate crimes" against Jews.

Then why your unwavering defense of it and everything related to it? I call bs in the loudest possible way.

I note you stated this and a follow up to another poster who pointed out you were wrong. You said in follow up to the other poster the latest statistics showed the above. You then did not provide the statistics. With due respect Jacee you can't because they don't exist. I actually discussed this in the anti-semitism thread. Here for readers to see for themselves: http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/jews-single-most-targeted-group-toronto-hate-crimes That said I don't like you or anyone turning hatred into a pissing contest as to who gets pissed on the most as if that justifies singling out certain hate over other hate. Hate is wrong, period. I believe the vital point the other poster was making and I have made is that when we discuss hatred, singling out one form of it as if its more important than other forms of hatred is wrong. As Jew I often see anti semites trivialize the holocaust by taking the word and applying it to other forms of massacre and hatred and saying its no different and why do Jews make a big deal about it. We teach the holocaust, that is to say we Jews with specific reference to righteous gentiles, and gentiles who died like Jehova's witnesses and &th Day Adventists and certain Christian democrats etc. We never say our pain is worse. We don't. We want to have people understand each of these events of hatred is unique and when we teach it we don't compare it to other slaughters as if they compete but as companion pieces. In the case of hate against Muslims, I think Trudeau and the Muslim MP pandered to Muslims and were dead wrong to single out Islamophobia the way they did. They lost respect from Muslims for doing that not just non Muslims. Muslims who are victims of crime have been represented and defended by B'nai B'rith precisely because it is hatred. Those Muslims did not claim to be more pained than Jews-they didn't even ask for our help but they felt good when we provided it. Hatred is hatred. No form of hatred is worse than another. I believe that was Dialamah's point about rape and it got lost in translation. I know her well enough to know she thinks all hatred is equally as bad and meant rape is rape, its a crime men of all cultures and religions engage in. We all agree on that. For this thread we are debating whether challenging specific Muslim values is hatred or legitimate criticism. Any criticism of Islam may hurt Muslims but it is a necessary part of democracy-challenging all extremist religious values. Someone tells me fundamentalist Orthodox Judaism is antiquated I don't consider that anti-Semitic. Why would I? It is. Christians often say that about the Amish or other sects, If its done with respect its part of discussion. With the exception of Taxme I don't think anyone else on this thread is being intentionally hateful with this issue although it can come across that way. Its a tough topic to discuss. So is anti-Semitism or anti-Christian discrimination or homophobia or sexism, etc.

First, I am not anti-Muslim per se. It's not about the religion. I work with some men who are Muslim every day and they are perfectly normal, they love their wife and daughter. But you are not listening to the argument, when you hear criticism such as I have outlines all you read is anti-islamic, anti-immigration". I've been clear on this before so you should know better than this. What I oppose is certain cultural attitudes that are fully accepted in countries in the ME and Africa, including but not limited to misogyny. Part of it comes from their religion. Take note of the fact the the new and old testament contain passages that are quite violent, which is the way it was everywhere when you go far enough back in time. We in the west have only recently come out of this and changed our thinking on women's rights, gay rights. Our cultural attitudes changed and I believe it's necessary to make them change to become like us, not the other way around. Second, since they are brought up in a culture where women are second rate, possessions equivalent to goats or what have you, without the right to go to school or drive, this is what they understand to be completely normal. I noted that the women in the article tried to cover it up and defend her husband. That's not uncommon even in our country when women are in abusive relationships, some women seem to go for guys who like to beat them up. They think they deserve it. They need help to change that attitude. The difference between the west and those countries is that we have laws to protect her rights, and support systems to help her. In places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi, other "backward" nations all Muslim in fact, they have no rights. You know that so stop lying and making me into the monster you want me to be, just so that you feel like you're right.

Are you misogynistic? How can you support a religious ideology which discriminates against women and welcome it into Canada?

For the first time in my history on MLW, I have had a status update comment removed. By Squid of course. Do I get a membership card or a secret decoder ring now?

Canadian officials swarm Washington D.C. far more than Russians. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-nafta-washington-us-trade-renegotiations-1.4232349

You just can't make this up. http://m.torontosun.com/2017/08/02/montreals-olympic-stadium-to-be-used-as-shelter-following-unprecedented-spike-in-asylum-seekers

Yes they do. I emailed them once asking about the membership, at that time I was told they believe it was 15 to 20% of the NDP.

Moderate Islam is akin to moderate National Socialism.

its absurd to argue that since Christian societies were violent or are violent one can draw moral equivalence with Muslm societies to argue Muslim fundamentalist terrorism and Muslim violence is no worse. Its an argument liberals like to make to condone things that are wrong-point out the people who challenge the wrong are just as evil. You and I already know and have stated repeatedly on this forum any religious extremism is dangerous and at this point in time, today, now, is fueling Muslim terrorism. Trying to white wash the word Muslim out of the fuel that inspires Muslim terrorism by arguing Christian fundamentalism is as bad as Muslim fundamentalism does not justify or white wash the word Muslim religion out of the fuel that feeds the fire.. This politically correct liberal horse crap would have you believe none of us can challenge anything let lone Muslims or Muslim extremism because we are inherently evil. Oh phack that recipe for moral impotence and passive aggressive liberal feigned tolerance. . Its a pile of crap. This is not about claiming to be better-its about challenging extremist religious a-holes who at the moment are predominantly Muslim in belief and using that belief to fuel their violence. If they are Christians or Jews or whatever I know damn well you apply the same standard -that standard for me is if someone is a Muslim extremist terrorist they need a bullet between the eyes.just as if they were a terrorist in the name of Jews or Christians. Y'all ask me the stink of terrorism is as consistent as the stink of a liberal feigned tolerance and moral righteousness when it comes to dealoing with terrorism. Either way the windows have to be opened and the fan turned on.

History and current events demonstrate quite clearly that when Christianity is allowed power within a society, it behaves much as Islam is currently behaving in the countries where it holds power. You live in a society where religious beliefs are not allowed to dictate policies or laws (mostly), where Christianity has had it's teeth pulled, so to speak, and so you think Christianity is the same everywhere. It's not. While there are no longer many countries where Christianity has political power, but the more power it has, the more women and minorities are oppressed. I'd provide you examples (although you've completely ignored the ones i've provided previously) but it's late, and I get up early for work, so g'nite.

My view of Islam is that it's a male-centric religion that the world would be better off without. Same view I have of Christianity.

He lied; his sponsor had told him several times that it was illegal to beat one's wife in Canada. Not that such details matter to right-wing, anti-Muslim and anti-Immigration types - or the media they support. Here's an insightful article about the Rafias. Consider his situation, and then consider the fact that as the economy in Alberta declined, domestic abuse increased. Here's the thing: if the man hadn't been a Muslim refugee, this would not have been a story worth publishing. Every week, at least one woman dies as a result of domestic violence; how many more do you suppose end up in hospital? Three thousand women sleep in shelters every night, and 300 more are turned away - women trying to escape from violent partners. That's an awful lot of women who are suffering from domestic violence, don't you think? But these aren't Muslim women who've been beaten by a Muslim man, so it's not news. Why waste time on the many examples of Canada's wife-beating culture when you can focus in on a single Muslim refugee that will support your anti-Muslim/anti-immigrant agenda?

Anyone can see what's going on in other western countries where a large number of refugees are being taken in with little or no training provided to help them leave their misogyny behind. The coverings are a symbol of that, which the first generation migrants are uncomfortable letting go of. Some of the women might be too scared to dare stand up for themselves.

Why is that all over Canada, girls and women are being "brainwashed" into burqas and niqabs by their family, but a young man can't be brainwashed into war by his family?

I've never been raped by a Muslim, but I have been raped by a non-Muslim. I've been groped by non-Muslims, old-stock, white Canadian males since I was 16-years-old. Every woman in my family since my grandmother has been molested in some way by a non-Muslim, white Canadian guy; some of these men touched girls as young as six. So STFU about how "Europeans" are so much more moral or better than Muslims. You aren't.

We can certainly echo the sentiment of those who do speak out, regardless of who we are. But who will speak for those who have no voice? I'm talking about oppressed people living in fear of retribution.

How can you say that after what Sweden and Germany and other European countries are dealing with - are you people seeing what's going on over there? They are planning no male festivals because of assaults against women - and it's not white european dudes doing it.

We don't record such things. The progressives insist that ethnic crime is lower than white crime, and yet fight furiously to ensure no statistics are kept based on race, religion or national origin. Much as in Sweden.

Thanks for 'speaking' for me. It's really appreciated. Again, I am no anti-semite. And I am not pissing all over ALL Jews/Isrealis. I have not got the time NOR the money to travel there to piss on each and every one of them. Fuck off.

I've never seen that as a definition.... usually it's about age.

New "England" is small and crowded.

I wasn't joking. My son is a police officer. He has done patrol, surveilance, some under cover ( not the deep stuff), bicycle squad and now he is ERT. Doesn't talk much about his job unless I ask him. After twelve years he still likes being at the sharp end and isn't ready to go for sergeant yet. I went for a ride along on a night like I described. 7PM to 7AM. I was on my son's shift but I went with another officer as you can't go with family. It was non stop till about 3AM, everything from lost kids, domestic disputes, addicts being robbed, people waving guns and knives etc. A fairly normal Friday night I was told except fortunately no one was hurt or hauled off to a hospital that we were involved in. Mediation and social working is a big part of what they do. This was pre fentanyl so it is even worse now. Around three it had quieted down. My son was cataloging evidence at the station and my officer had to get caught up and was sitting in the car transcribing his notes into his laptop. So I went home. It was an eye opener and the even handed way these guys handled themselves whoever they were dealing with, impressed me. Made me proud of the kid.

I read a research report from the UK that said Muslim women are 8X more likely to be victims of domestic violence. (I will try to find the info again, I don't have it in front of me at the moment.) If that is correct, then I think we can assume they are violent towards all women because of their beliefs about women. Yes, I know not all of them have those views, but I do believe there is a higher incidence of it amongst Muslim men and that it's because they grow up believing women are property, must be covered at all times and that their own masculinity is entwined with the behaviour of their women, daughters, sisters, etc. Thus, honour killings.

I work in the male dominated IT industry and have witnessed sexual harassment and condescending, insulting behaviour from men to women. These are perpetrated by white men mostly. Should we include these stats as hate crimes against women perpetrated by white men?

Maybe that's the score. Are you sure? Consider this: A white guys kills 6 muslims in a mosque. Score: 6-0 Now a Somalian gang kills a white guy at a mall. If the gang members are all muslim, is this still a hate crime or does it just get recorded as a murder? Does anyone report whether the killing was because the white guy wasn't muslim? Not a chance because.....Canada. Score: Still 6-0 "Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Don't get upset....it's not only you living with "progressive" cognitive dissonance on occupied land.

So are hate crimes against people because of their religion.

No I wouldn't either. It's a piece of cloth. Terrorizing people because of their religion is another matter. Six people of this community were already recently murdered because of their religion.

Oh sure. Take it literally. I think it should be an illegal action to harass and terrorize people that way because of their religion. I don't care whether it's called a hate crime. It's definitely harassment.

Are you defending that creep? http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/valerio-anti-muslim-groups-should-provoke-louder-response-from-our-leaders We've already had 6 Muslims killed in Canada by a violent terrorist. Paramilitary hate groups are demonstrating against Muslims, arming themselves and practicing ... for something. Do you think that's a good thing? I think hateful creeps like that we don't need.

I already mentioned the variables involved in why he was elected. On top of that, Trump, more than the average politician, promised things that he ended up backing away from. This is one of the reasons why he is now one of the least popular presidents in the history. Especially in the first year of his presidency, where most presidents end up having the highest favourable rating of their careers. Only people still backing Trump are the uneducated, scared white people who are too lazy and unintelligent to learn and research and instead follow what is fed to them. You may want to educate yourself on the rate of crime in Canada. Because I can't sit here and feed you information. Especially, as later posts have indicated, you end up repeating false information after being taught otherwise. Here is some information that may help you understand things a little better - maybe: http://globalnews.ca/news/2836239/violent-crime-surges-upward-in-canada-for-the-first-time-in-12-years/ LOL. Are you angry that crimes are being committed by people other than white gangs? The rest of your comments are once again, emotional diatribe. You are sinking. And your evidence is what? Your racist gut feeling? Wearing bedsheets? You're sinking. There are crappy people in all groups and sub-groups. Overall, based on more than just my personal observation, our country is improving in many aspects. According to data, our country is also improving in many areas. From lower crime rates, comparing now with more minorities to when the percentage of 'white people' was higher, to our economy, including GDP. What other information and stats do you have to show that immigrants are bad for this country? I mean, you brought up bedsheets on heads, but that's just something that hurts your feelings. Bedsheets on heads don't really hurt the economy, increase the crime rate or anything else. No. Despite what you say about how I feel about Canada, I still love Canada and look forward to it getting better. Part of that improvement is educating our young and teaching them about what they may be unfamiliar with so they don't end up being scared people who argue based on ignorance.

It's the haughty sneering manner in which you present your judgements that make you so bigoted - something most right wingers appear to be completely oblivious to. Maybe they're just trying to appear tough or something.

Those who were still anti-feminist - eg, who are incapable of seeing sexual harassment for what it is, or who think women 'deserve' to be raped if they go to a man's place - when burkas appeared, they suddenly wanted to rip them off to protect the poor women from the oppression of their MUSLIM husbands. It's disingenuous. They are not trying to protect women. It's just anti-Muslim.

Wow. That's quite the statement. Your b.s. comment about what I want or think aside, in case you didn't know, your 'mindset', based on your statement is bigoted. So you are scared that Muslims will 'change Canada' to something that you're not comfortable with. Like a stereotypical scared white guy in the bible belt, who is only capable of seeing Muslims as a caricature. The same scared white guy voted for Trump, thinking that he will save America and turn back the clock to some fantasy period. This isolated white man thinks that the shitty things that are happening are because of immigrants and 'the other people'. Because it's always easier to blame the unfamiliar. When a car company decides to take its factory to Mexico, because the CEO can make more money for the shareholders and for himself, and the white guy loses his job, that's not because of Muslims or immigrants. When jobs are lost because robots can do the job better and cheaper, it's not because of Muslims. When a greasy burger joint goes out of business and a Shwarma joint pops up, well, that's probably because of a Lebanese Muslim. Guess what. Muslims who come from many different backgrounds and cultures have already changed Canada. So have Indians, Chinese, Filipinos, Spanish, Italians, Mexicans, the Irish, etc. etc. Most of this change has been for the good. You cannot stop change. Humans who accept that change is something you cannot stop, instead of being scared of it, end up succeeding better in life. I live in something close to a utopia. I live in Vancouver, where most people, instead of having fears like you do, which limit your learning and experiences, embrace different cultures. I love having people with different backgrounds, including Muslims, who again, come from different cultures, over to our summer bbq's. They add culture and sophistication to what we already have. This is what life is all about. It's to explore and learn. To adopt a better way to do things and leave behind the negatives. Last month, I learned to make an amazing rice dish from an Iranian. God damn my rice is so damn delicious. I'm also playing chess again and have picked up backgammon because of the Iranian friend. These interactions have also reminded me that we have more in common than we think. We all want the best for our families, our neighbours and the world. It's a great feeling. I feel sorry for people who are too scared and refuse to explore someone that may look different and might do some things differently. The good news is that they will be pushed aside and forgotten through natural progression. Migration, which has been going on for as long as humans have been around is part of progression and the evolving of the human race. The scared people who don't follow this natural system will eventually be pushed aside, because most of their children will have a different experience and perspective.

Gee! I'm sorry I missed that! That would be a little hair raising. bcsapper have you asked any Muslim women whether they want you speaking for them? Just curious ... I found it soooooo amusing that in the last decade or so, the men who were so stridently anti-feminist for decades suddenly and miraculously became feminists. It's so hypocritical. Because it isn't about women's rights at all. It's just another tactic in your anti-Muslim campaigns. I really think you should stop disingenuously pretending to speak on behalf of Muslim women. It's just really tacky.

Oh I think you understand the difference.

You have enough on your hands with your continuing treatment of Blacks to bother worrying about all things Canada yet again.

Not being xenophobic is not tantamount to being anti Canada. As a matter of fact the country prides itself, and is held in high regard, for demonstrating exactly the opposite.

I don't see this happening anywhere in Canada. Breaking down western society and values, anarchy on the streets? Marxist utopia. Oh please. More hyperbole!

I assume any people known to be radical extremists would be refused entry. It's unclear what banning all people from Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen will accomplish. I'm quite sure the vast majority of people from those countries are not Islamic extremists, and many aren't even Muslim. It's just a big cheesy show.

Okay. So you're good with Muslims. Then it's Scribblet, Betsy, Argus, etc. etc. who are scared of Muslims.

You should be more worried about the crazy right wingers more than Muslim terrorists. They continue to kill a lot more Americans than Muslim terrorists.