ironstone Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 Living standards in China have improved quite a bit from what I see online. But we must not lose sight of the fact that they cannot choose who leads them, nor are they allowed to criticize the current regime. They even use de-banking as one weapon against those that dare to dissent. That sounds familiar... Quote Beware the Brookfield industrial complex...
ExFlyer Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 13 hours ago, User said: Like them? This was a discussion about simple facts, my like for them or not has nothing to do with anything. You still have not figured out what per capita means. Per capita means absolutely nothing in this discussion. It is you that seems to want to break down something that does not need to be broken down. You can stop trying to force your nonsense upon me Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
I am Groot Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 19 hours ago, ExFlyer said: China is the worlds 2nd biggest economy...hardly 3rd world. Where the people live is of no concern....are our farmers living in the middle of nowhere in the prairies in the same category? Or the ones living in NWT or Nunavut or Northern BC or Yukon? Would you rather live in rural China or rural Alberta? From what I know, the life for the average Chinese, whether urban or rural, is vastly inferior to that of the average Canadian, not just in terms of human rights, but in terms of lifestyle, comforts, housing, free time, etc. 1 Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
I am Groot Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 (edited) One of the big reasons for China's success is the idea of net zero, which the West enthusiastically embraced without a single government ever explaining the cost to its citizens. Hands up, those of you who knew Trudeau had spent $200 billion on net zero to no effect before Carney said so? The West has spent trillions to make its energy more expensive, while putting hefty taxes on industries that pumped out CO2. This has helped drive manufacturing and industry away from them and over to China and others like China, where electricity is fed by cheap and plentiful coal power, and there are no carbon taxes. China has thrived and Western economies have stagnated since the obsession with global warming took hold. Yes, outsourcing to cheaper manufacturing in China started its rise, but net zero added rocket fuel to that. Edited January 18 by I am Groot 2 Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
ExFlyer Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 50 minutes ago, I am Groot said: Would you rather live in rural China or rural Alberta? From what I know, the life for the average Chinese, whether urban or rural, is vastly inferior to that of the average Canadian, not just in terms of human rights, but in terms of lifestyle, comforts, housing, free time, etc. Nope , just saying we, Canadians need China for buying our resources as well as making things for us so we can buy them cheap LOL If you don't like it...go ahead and boycott China and everything you need and buy that is made in China... 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
User Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 3 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Per capita means absolutely nothing in this discussion. It is you that seems to want to break down something that does not need to be broken down. You can stop trying to force your nonsense upon me In a discussion about how great China is or isn’t compared to Canada in regards to people, per capita means everything. You keep trying to make an ignorant point about their economy as a whole, but when they have over a billion people, it’s not that great for each of them. 1 Quote
User Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: Yes, outsourcing to cheaper manufacturing in China started its rise, but net zero added rocket fuel to that. This is why it’s a joke to listen the same folks who cry the most about climate change bragging about how wonderful China is while also ignorantly bragging about how great it is they cut emissions in their country. They really think they are saving the planet by simply shifting the CO2 output to China. 1 1 Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-speed_railway_lines Hi speed rail lines per capita, for reference USA is dead last, I feel Canada would be also. 1 Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 2 hours ago, I am Groot said: One of the big reasons for China's success is the idea of net zero, which the West enthusiastically embraced without a single government ever explaining the cost to its citizens. The biggest reason by far is due to shifting much of the West's manufacturing to China which you people enthusiastically embraced. Back in the day you were mocked and cancelled as an anti-capitalist commie for questioning this wisdom and especially what it would cost us. So now you're all suddenly woke to this? Recall in Canada we were told to give up drawing water, hewing wood and if course manufacturing and make the switch to a high-tech information-age service economy instead. Canada just needed to roll up it's sleeves, sharpen its pencils and innovate it's way to the promised land. And how's that working out? Well don't look now but suddenly we're being told we should be shipping natural resources out as fast as we can draw and hew them. And now we're told that's what we always should have been doing. But but but net-zero.😭 This twaddle about net-zero being to blame fits like a bikini on an elephant. LMAO! 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
User Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-speed_railway_lines Hi speed rail lines per capita, for reference USA is dead last, I feel Canada would be also. They also have a pretty large freight rail system dedicated to coal! I mean, not that such things bother you, Mr. Climate Change is real, check out my profile... 1 Quote
herbie Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 sez Mr Obfuscate by changing the subject. Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout. As was mentioning highspeed rail is irrelavent comparing 1.5 billion people spread out to 40 million in pretty much in a 5000km straight line/ Barely makes sense in the one proposed corridor. We're comparing a country that lifted itself from peasantry to middle class in one generation to one already there. Doubling the population and still talking about secondary processing and innovation after four generations. Not like Siberia next door was constantly draining skills, investment and buying up control of everything. Different challenges. And constantly feeding the bullshit that Canada isn't and can't deliver services is absurd when it is pushed by those who wish to reduce those very services. 1 Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 2 hours ago, User said: They also have a pretty large freight rail system dedicated to coal! I mean, not that such things bother you, Mr. Climate Change is real, check out my profile... Oh it bothers me all right. There are conflicting messages there at best. 1 Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
blackbird Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 quote Highly efficient China's healthcare system is highly efficient, with the country achieving a remarkable level of healthcare efficiency. In 2022, China was the only country to reach zero inefficiency, meaning it maximized its healthcare spending to deliver the best possible health outcomes based on its level of investment. This efficiency is a result of several factors, including high vaccination rates, widespread use of prenatal care, low government corruption, and a larger share of health spending coming from public sources rather than private. The system's efficiency is a testament to China's commitment to improving health outcomes while controlling costs, offering an example for other countries seeking to enhance their health systems. Forbes unquote How is it possible? Canada is a relatively rich country, yet China can provide a far more efficient health care system for its people. Quote
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 16 minutes ago, blackbird said: How is it possible? Canada is a relatively rich country, yet China can provide a far more efficient health care system for its people. It isn't. Can you give us the actual link to Forbes you are using because the only thing I get back when I use your quote in Google is The China Daily. Which is essentially the propaganda mouthpiece for their Communist Party. 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 34 minutes ago, blackbird said: unquote How is it possible? They lie, of course. 1 Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Oh it bothers me all right. There are conflicting messages there at best. Well, certainly not enough to hear you complain about that... I mean, what was your point in bringing up their high-speed rail per capita? What were you hoping to achieve with that? What message? 1 Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, User said: 1. Well, certainly not enough to hear you complain about that... 2. I mean, what was your point in bringing up their high-speed rail per capita? What were you hoping to achieve with that? What message? 1. Well... search would have to work on this site for either of us to make statements about what I have said about China with regards to their environmental program. I don't even remember myself. 2. I was being a bit flippant, I concur. They do deliver some things though. Their middle class grew while ours was destroyed for one that. It's possible to have both opinions in your mind that China does things for its citizens, and China is a repressive government model that no civilized nation should pursue. Why not say so ? 1 Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 2. I was being a bit flippant, I concur. They do deliver some things though. Their middle class grew while ours was destroyed for one that. Yet, the Middle Class in Canada is not "destroyed" and is still better off by a majority of metrics regarding quality of life and standards of living. Well, others on this forum repeatedly and ignorantly sing China's praises on here... and not that I can say you do that, but you seemed to jump in with your comments here and still are, as you make outlandish generalizations about the middle class being destroyed. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 17 minutes ago, User said: 1. Yet, the Middle Class in Canada is not "destroyed" and is still better off by a majority of metrics regarding quality of life and standards of living. 2. Well, others on this forum repeatedly and ignorantly sing China's praises on here... and not that I can say you do that, but you seemed to jump in with your comments here and still are, as you make outlandish generalizations about the middle class being destroyed. 1. True 2. What can I say... I am the mushy middle... or more of a school boy with a pea-shooter than a grandstander... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. True 2. What can I say... I am the mushy middle... or more of a school boy with a pea-shooter than a grandstander... There is no "mushy middle" when you say things like the middle class is destroyed and China's is better. Quote
blackbird Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 1 hour ago, User said: It isn't. Can you give us the actual link to Forbes you are using because the only thing I get back when I use your quote in Google is The China Daily. Which is essentially the propaganda mouthpiece for their Communist Party. I'm out right now, but will look for a link later today. Don't think I can copy and paste with this phone. It is possible for a country to have a better health care system than Canada's and still have a lower standard of living. Some European countries have better health care than Canada. Canada's is become a disaster by many reports. Are you an American or Canadian? Quote
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 7 minutes ago, blackbird said: I'm out right now, but will look for a link later today. Don't think I can copy and paste with this phone. It is possible for a country to have a better health care system than Canada's and still have a lower standard of living. Some European countries have better health care than Canada. Canada's is become a disaster by many reports. Are you an American or Canadian? Sure, it is possible... but you started this thread on more than just health care. I am American and I am well aware of issues in Canada as I have been there on business many times and worked directly with Canadians extensively for years. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 39 minutes ago, User said: There is no "mushy middle" when you say things like the middle class is destroyed and China's is better. Well, I retracted my sloppy use of 'destroyed'... not destroyed but declined. I should be more careful... I don't think their MC is better, but their governments have done more for their MC than we have over 20 years, wouldn't you agree ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
blackbird Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, User said: Sure, it is possible... but you started this thread on more than just health care. I am American and I am well aware of issues in Canada as I have been there on business many times and worked directly with Canadians extensively for years. I quoted a man that worked in China several years and quoted his first hand experience in a number of services. What little experience he had with health care was very good. He got to see a specialist the next day. You probably have much faster service in the U.S. but you need good insurance and / or pay lots of cash. We can't easily compare Canadian or China's health care with U.S. because yours is probably good if you have good insurance or lots of money. Canada's system is public, more like China's which is public. But Canada's is poorly run or doesn't have the money in it. 1 Quote
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, blackbird said: I quoted a man that worked in China several years and quoted his first hand experience in a number of services. What little experience he had with health care was very good. He got to see a specialist the next day. You probably have much faster service in the U.S. but you need good insurance and / or pay lots of cash. We can't easily compare Canadian or China's health care with U.S. because yours is probably good if you have good insurance or lots of money. Canada's system is public, more like China's which is public. But Canada's is poorly run or doesn't have the money in it. Anecdotal evidence is just that... and just like your quote that appears to be from some Chinese propaganda outfit, you did not provide a link so we could even evaluate it on our own. His experiences, even if true for himself, do not provide any kind of picture for the overal system and how it impacts the average Chinese person. 1 Quote
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