Cons to Debate Things Normal Canadians like

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You would prefer a white Euro-centric workforce in government and business?

I prefer the best person for the job.  Especially airline pilots.

4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Diversity is generally better compared to mono-culture.

Ahhh.  You believe all cultures are good.  Which is basically saying "diversity" is synonymous with "good".

I don't.

I think some cultures are not good. 

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Is "diversity" synonymous with "good"?

No, but unless you think the Chinese model where mono-ethnic, mono-cultured and religiously suppressed allegiance to the Party is the best model, you probably have to acknowledge that a certain level of diversity is pretty good. 

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

a certain level of diversity is pretty good. 

Of course.

I just don't believe as Mark Carney does that "Muslim values are the same as Canadian values."

57 Muslim-ruled countries tell me otherwise.  The Palestinians being 80% in favour of Hamas, tells me otherwise.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

 

Is "diversity" synonymous with "good"?

No, I don't even agree with the slogan. 

But there is structural value in having some different perspectives. 

One thing that Canadians are not great at is being entrepreneurial. We are very compliant, and defer to authority more than other cultures.

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

 

I just don't believe as Mark Carney does that "Muslim values are the same as Canadian values."

 

Sure but what's he going to say on the topic? 

I would agree with him more if he had said Muslim Canadians are Canadians like the rest of us. 

Canada has a melting pot, whether we want to admit it or not.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I do believe that there are evil people in the world, however it's pretty difficult for true evil to perpetuate in an open system such as labour frameworks.  Do you think that they THINK they have the country's interests at heart ?  That is, they're misguided.

I don't think that they'd be lying and promoting rioting and racial hatred all the time if they thought that they had America's best interests ay heart. 

Quote

13. I'm so far removed from such a place that I can't even say "it must be nice".  I wouldn't trust work... with anything.  I get my paycheck, I keep going in.  My boss at my last company left and openly recruited her favourites to the new place, me included.  Nobody batted an eye.

Yeah, that's not ideal. I could almost work anywhere as long as I get along with the people around me and the money is good enough. I don't think there's a job anywhere that's "fun" or "captivating" for 160 hrs a month, its always the people that make it bearable. 

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Having been in the position of hiring people...I have not seen any applications for jobs that ask for your colour or gender in my tenure.  Maybe in the past but certainly no tin the past 20 or so years.

Applications I have dealt with do not even ask age or race. Many resumes do not even have names, as applicants are given a number.

Right after i retired i applied for a civilian job within the military, right on my application was all my info plus how I identified, and what pronouns i preferred, also what race and religion was i....what sex i was....So much more than you were asked...

Go to the DND recruiting site or Civil service web site and look for military jobs, it states right in black and white who they are targeting....and what preferences they are looking for. So DEI is alive and well...The last search for the CDS included 5 women...no men were included, why because it time the liberals broke some glass ceilings...I could give you lots of those stories, where women, or other than whites were promoted in the fast track stream not because of qualifications, or standings on the promotion board...but they jumped the que, because that was what the fad was at the time. 

Nobody questioned it because DEI had infected the entire system, Military culture was questioned, and giving important positions to those that were discriminated against, or held back, where now given better treatment to show Canadians we are working on our self's...Don't get me wrong I've gone to war with Female Infanteers, and for the most part they rocked the shit out their jobs...not all but most of those i had contact with...Saying that their was also plenty of males that did not get the same treatment and a lot where much better soldiers and officers...SO DEI is alive and well in the military and the civilian component...

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Having been in the position of hiring people...

You have never been in the position of hiring people. You are a teenager living in your mother's basement. One of these days you're going to have to start to learn to be honest

[TreeBeard]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

Especially airline pilots.

You think they are hiring pilots that are not qualified?  Who did this?

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1. I don't think that they'd be lying and promoting rioting and racial hatred all the time if they thought that they had America's best interests ay heart. 

2. Yeah, that's not ideal. I could almost work anywhere as long as I get along with the people around me and the money is good enough.

3. I don't think there's a job anywhere that's "fun" or "captivating" for 160 hrs a month, its always the people that make it bearable. 

1. So you feel that there is a cabal (organized group or unorganized let's say) who actively wish to do harm to their country's interests by weakening its institutions by elevating unqualified people ?  Are they perhaps ASSISTED by people who think it's an actual good idea ?  Or does anyone who supports DEI programs at any level KNOW it's a bad idea and just want to hurt their nation ?  I'm trying to follow your logic here, to see how such a scheme could possibly be executed for decades without strong evidence coming out.
2. Yes, I get along great with everyone and the money is good.  The way I see it, there are social "norms" that are just followed, but sometimes these get eroded... mostly by money.  Trust and Loyalty is one of these.  Although "trust" is just in the capacity of staying in a job and not jumping, even when it's in ones own interests.
    My sister once told me that she felt "company loyalty" was in decline.  Her husband, my brother-in-law, had been in the same company for maybe 20 years, whereas I had skipped jobs every 1-2 years - which was normal.
3. I completely and utterly disagree.  My favourite jobs were in analysis (can you tell ?) and strategy.    May I ask what field you are in ?

An old girlfriend was a physics genius, and she got a job with a large defense company I believe it was.  They didn't have room for them, so they had to house them in part of a manufacturing facility.  She said the plant employees were visibly hostile to her, a young woman, and her cohorts who seemingly just sat in a room and chatted around some whiteboard squiggles all day while they worked with their bodies, to the point of fatigue.  And of course she made several times their salary.

I'm reminded of Peter Fonda's speech in Easy Rider... wherein he talks about the townies hating the hippies because they reflected true freedom, versus buying and selling yourself on the market constantly.  Which is what we all do.  Unless we're retired of course...

[Barquentine]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't think there's a job anywhere that's "fun" or "captivating" for 160 hrs a month

Sad for you. I've had jobs I thoroughly enjoyed, despite not liking all the people around me. And in some jobs, it was actually some of the people not the work that made the job not 'fun".

[Barquentine]

16 hours ago, Goddess said:

I think some cultures are not good.

What is a culture? Are you talking about nationalities, ethnicities, or groups that hold common beliefs?

MAGA is a 'culture' that is not good. White supremacy is a culture that is not good. Any culture that thinks it's culture is the only good one is not good.

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You have never been in the position of hiring people. You are a teenager living in your mother's basement. One of these days you're going to have to start to learn to be honest

Get over your idi0cy LOSER.

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Right after i retired i applied for a civilian job within the military, right on my application was all my info plus how I identified, and what pronouns i preferred, also what race and religion was i....what sex i was....So much more than you were asked...

Go to the DND recruiting site or Civil service web site and look for military jobs, it states right in black and white who they are targeting....and what preferences they are looking for. So DEI is alive and well...The last search for the CDS included 5 women...no men were included, why because it time the liberals broke some glass ceilings...I could give you lots of those stories, where women, or other than whites were promoted in the fast track stream not because of qualifications, or standings on the promotion board...but they jumped the que, because that was what the fad was at the time. 

Nobody questioned it because DEI had infected the entire system, Military culture was questioned, and giving important positions to those that were discriminated against, or held back, where now given better treatment to show Canadians we are working on our self's...Don't get me wrong I've gone to war with Female Infanteers, and for the most part they rocked the shit out their jobs...not all but most of those i had contact with...Saying that their was also plenty of males that did not get the same treatment and a lot where much better soldiers and officers...SO DEI is alive and well in the military and the civilian component...

"In Canada,

it is generally not allowed for job applications to ask for personal information regarding race, gender, or other protected characteristics. 

Such questions are prohibited because they can directly or indirectly lead to discrimination in the hiring process, violating human rights laws like the Canadian Human Rights Act and provincial human rights code"

"Prohibited Topics

Employers should not ask about the following in job applications or interviews: 

• Race, Colour, Ancestry, or Ethnic Origin: Questions about your ethnic background, where you are from, or the origin of your name.
• Sex, Gender Identity, or Gender Expression: Questions asking if you are male/female, your gender identity, or your pronouns.
• Marital or Family Status: Whether you are married, divorced, or have children (including questions about future family plans).
• Age: Asking for your age or date of birth.
• Religion/Creed: What religion you practice or if you observe certain holidays."

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Barquentine said:

  Any culture that thinks it's culture is the only good one is not good.

Then every culture is not good 🤔

A culture has extremely complex and subjective attributes.  Binary morality only works towards making people smug.

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Then every culture is not good 🤔

A culture has extremely complex and subjective attributes.  Binary morality only works towards making people smug.

I'm being kind of flippant, but surely you can see there's a bit of chauvinism in every single culture right?

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. So you feel that there is a cabal (organized group or unorganized let's say) who actively wish to do harm to their country's interests by weakening its institutions by elevating unqualified people ?  Are they perhaps ASSISTED by people who think it's an actual good idea ?  Or does anyone who supports DEI programs at any level KNOW it's a bad idea and just want to hurt their nation ?  I'm trying to follow your logic here, to see how such a scheme could possibly be executed for decades without strong evidence coming out.

Yeah. It's kind of obvious if you actually look around.

• Why did the Dems and their MSM accomplices pretend that M Brown was the 'Gentle Giant' for 3 months after the videos of him violently robbing that store came out? None of that rioting needed to happen. 
• why did they pretend that G Floyd was the new 'Gentle Giant' when they knew about his violent past, and K Ellison had the bodycam footage under his thumb? None of that rioting needed to happen
• What divides the country more than manufactured race riots? "You can always get one half of the poor people to kill the other half". 
• there are people who benefit from DEI, and they're the angriest, loudest, emptiest vessels in the room. They keep the hate going non-stop
• why did our gov't in Canada pretend that there was a genocide against 215 kids in Kamloops when they knew that never happened?
• why did our gov't insinuate that the the MMIW were all killed by white men, while that's the least likely scenario? 
• why does our gov't constantly pretend that white men commit most of the terrorist attacks? It's absurd. You can only name 2 off the top of your head, and there were several islamic terrorist attacks here: they're only 1% of our population...
• why does our gov't like to pretend that conservatives commit the most acts of political violence? They don't even commit 1% of political violence. BLM easily did 10,000x the destruction of Jan 6thers. J6 was a few hours, with a few hundred people, and all they did was smash a few windows and bust 1 or 2 doors. BLM rioted for hours and hours, several days a week, in multiple cities, for years. Plus there's Antifa. And now there are the ICE riots. Leftists are rioting an awful lot, destructively, and this time it's to protect pedophiles. 
• Why did the CBC try so hard to characterize the Freedom Convoy as destructive and violent, but never said that they were "in support of youths who are being forced to vaccinate"? They constantly put a positive spin on BLM riots, described the BLM protests and riots, describing them as "protesting anti-black violence"? After the Freedom Convoy left, months after they started, there wasn't a broken window or a McDonald's box laying on the ground. Leftists kill people and burn down buildings at their riots, that's an undeniable fact.

out of time for now. there's way more...

 

[Michael Hardner]

52 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Yeah. It's kind of obvious if you actually look around.

• Why did the Dems and their MSM accomplices pretend that M Brown was the 'Gentle Giant' for 3 months after the videos of him violently robbing that store came out? None of that rioting needed to happen. 
• why did they pretend that G Floyd was the new 'Gentle Giant' when they knew about his violent past, and K Ellison had the bodycam footage under his thumb? None of that rioting needed to happen
• What divides the country more than manufactured race riots? "You can always get one half of the poor people to kill the other half". 
• there are people who benefit from DEI, and they're the angriest, loudest, emptiest vessels in the room. They keep the hate going non-stop
• why did our gov't in Canada pretend that there was a genocide against 215 kids in Kamloops when they knew that never happened?
• why did our gov't insinuate that the the MMIW were all killed by white men, while that's the least likely scenario? 
• why does our gov't constantly pretend that white men commit most of the terrorist attacks? It's absurd. You can only name 2 off the top of your head, and there were several islamic terrorist attacks here: they're only 1% of our population...
• why does our gov't like to pretend that conservatives commit the most acts of political violence? They don't even commit 1% of political violence. BLM easily did 10,000x the destruction of Jan 6thers. J6 was a few hours, with a few hundred people, and all they did was smash a few windows and bust 1 or 2 doors. BLM rioted for hours and hours, several days a week, in multiple cities, for years. Plus there's Antifa. And now there are the ICE riots. Leftists are rioting an awful lot, destructively, and this time it's to protect pedophiles. 
• Why did the CBC try so hard to characterize the Freedom Convoy as destructive and violent, but never said that they were "in support of youths who are being forced to vaccinate"? They constantly put a positive spin on BLM riots, described the BLM protests and riots, describing them as "protesting anti-black violence"? After the Freedom Convoy left, months after they started, there wasn't a broken window or a McDonald's box laying on the ground. Leftists kill people and burn down buildings at their riots, that's an undeniable fact.

out of time for now. there's way more...

 

You made nine points, or maybe better to say you talked about nine issues: two were police killings of black men, two were about indigenous relations in Canada, one about race riots, one is a characterization of the beneficiary of DEI... Not sure if you were just talking about non-white people here or maybe women and LGBTQ, one about the freedom convoy, a couple about terrorism. 

I really thought you were talking about DEI, not just general issues around relationships between races etc. 

Not only that, most of your examples are very recent. Dei, or affirmative action as I used to know it, has been around since I was a little kid... 60 years 65 years. 

I'm still unsure about how this program could be brought in as an organized conspiracy by people who want to bring down the nation. 

I feel like you're muddying the waters and just talking about everything. 

Maybe explain from the beginning how it started.... In the Kennedy administration... And then how it grew, how it changed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusion

 

 

 

Edited January 17 by Michael Hardner

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You made nine points, or maybe better to say you talked about nine issues: two were police killings of black men, two were about indigenous relations in Canada, one about race riots, one is a characterization of the beneficiary of DEI... Not sure if you were just talking about non-white people here or maybe women and LGBTQ, one about the freedom convoy, a couple about terrorism. 

You asked me if there was some sort of cabal, so I talked about a few the times the MSM and Dems/Libs were outrageously wrong, and erred on the side of division and hatred. 

And speaking of cabals, what's the whole point of TNI if not to control narratives and "burn books" on Twitter and FB? Be honest: they weren't wrong about covid and the laptop, they were lying. Either that or I'm smarter than Health Canada, the CDC and NiH combined. 

Quote

I feel like you're muddying the waters and just talking about everything

I feel like it's 100% certain that you are gaslighting now, because you're gaslighting. 

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You asked me if there was some sort of cabal, so I talked about a few the times the MSM and Dems/Libs were outrageously wrong, and erred on the side of division and hatred. 

 

Yes I'm asking about how DEI has been reinforced and introduced in government, and business over 60 years. 

I'm still asking that question. 

You don't think that these people implementing and maintaining it think it's a good idea, right? 

So how does it persist?

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

 

I feel like it's 100% certain that you are gaslighting now

How is it gaslighting if I'm asking you about your very words? 

If you want to take something back, or say you don't know why or you don't feel 100% clear on how something happened then just say so. 

It's not like I'm laying a trap for you, you've got some ideas. I'm just trying to figure out what they are.

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes I'm asking about how DEI has been reinforced and introduced in government, and business over 60 years. 

It's worse than ever now. 

60 years ago, change was necessary.

Now it is not.

Quote

How is it gaslighting if I'm asking you about your very words? 

What words?

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

"In Canada,

it is generally not allowed for job applications to ask for personal information regarding race, gender, or other protected characteristics. 

Such questions are prohibited because they can directly or indirectly lead to discrimination in the hiring process, violating human rights laws like the Canadian Human Rights Act and provincial human rights code"

"Prohibited Topics

Employers should not ask about the following in job applications or interviews: 

• Race, Colour, Ancestry, or Ethnic Origin: Questions about your ethnic background, where you are from, or the origin of your name.
• Sex, Gender Identity, or Gender Expression: Questions asking if you are male/female, your gender identity, or your pronouns.
• Marital or Family Status: Whether you are married, divorced, or have children (including questions about future family plans).
• Age: Asking for your age or date of birth.
• Religion/Creed: What religion you practice or if you observe certain holidays."

What does generally not allow mean...is it or is it not....I applied for a civilian job within CFB Gagetown and those questions were asked...And it was not the only time this information was requested to provide....

The fact that they do request this info is telling, they in fact tell you in the job description who they are looking for...or who will be given preferential treatment.. And most Resumes that are actioned are vetted by computer, one needs to fill out those questions in order to make it past the screening...or your resume does not get vetted...

Internally i was required to fill out lots of admin paper work where they requested Age, gender, what were my pronouns i prefer to use...religion, etc...If I'm correct i think my yearly civilian job performance sheet it also requested this basic info...welcome to the 2020's baby...

I'm pretty sure i was asked those same questions on my security clearance sheet. looks like the government is not adhering to their own rules. On this form it asks for date of birth, your gender, and others....

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/tbs-sct/documents/forms/330-61-ssacf-en.pdf

Here is a job random description for a civilian employee job with DND. 

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/opportunities/government/self-declaring-government-canada-jobs.html

Below was taken from an random job I highlighted who the target audience was  in red....I guess you can highlight your race through self declare....maybe your laws are not for the government...

https://emploisfp-psjobs.cfp-psc.gc.ca/psrs-srfp/applicant/page1800?poster=2386296

Equity, diversity and inclusion

The Public Service of Canada is committed to building a skilled and diverse workforce that reflects the population it serves. We promote employment equity and encourage you to self-declare if you belong to one of the designated employment equity groups when you apply.

Learn more about diversity and inclusion in the public service.

Selection may be limited to members of the following employment equity groups: Indigenous (Aboriginal) peoples, persons with disabilities, visible minorities, and women.

Learn more about employment equity.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

 

1. 60 years ago, change was necessary.

 

1. That's interesting. Effectively, DEI WAS started with good intentions then....

 

Ok.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That's interesting. Effectively, DEI WAS started with good intentions then....

Change was necessary.

No one said that they had DEI. 

It's kind of obvious that there is a cabal if you actually look around.

• Why did the Dems and their MSM accomplices pretend that M Brown was the 'Gentle Giant' for 3 months after the videos of him violently robbing that store came out? None of that rioting needed to happen. 
• why did they pretend that G Floyd was the new 'Gentle Giant' when they knew about his violent past, and K Ellison had the bodycam footage under his thumb? None of that rioting needed to happen
• What divides the country more than manufactured race riots? "You can always get one half of the poor people to kill the other half". 
• there are people who benefit from DEI, and they're the angriest, loudest, emptiest vessels in the room. They keep the hate going non-stop
• why did our gov't in Canada pretend that there was a genocide against 215 kids in Kamloops when they knew that never happened?
• why did our gov't insinuate that the the MMIW were all killed by white men, while that's the least likely scenario? 
• why does our gov't constantly pretend that white men commit most of the terrorist attacks? It's absurd. You can only name 2 off the top of your head, and there were several islamic terrorist attacks here: they're only 1% of our population...
• why does our gov't like to pretend that conservatives commit the most acts of political violence? They don't even commit 1% of political violence. BLM easily did 10,000x the destruction of Jan 6thers. J6 was a few hours, with a few hundred people, and all they did was smash a few windows and bust 1 or 2 doors. BLM rioted for hours and hours, several days a week, in multiple cities, for years. Plus there's Antifa. And now there are the ICE riots. Leftists are rioting an awful lot, destructively, and this time it's to protect pedophiles. 
• Why did the CBC try so hard to characterize the Freedom Convoy as destructive and violent, but never said that they were "in support of youths who are being forced to vaccinate"? They constantly put a positive spin on BLM riots, described the BLM protests and riots, describing them as "protesting anti-black violence"? After the Freedom Convoy left, months after they started, there wasn't a broken window or a McDonald's box laying on the ground. Leftists kill people and burn down buildings at their riots, that's an undeniable fact.

No one's that dumb, or that unlucky, or that unlucky and that dumb.

When was the last time that you felt like the Dems/Libs were really on the right side of history? 

The Libs have been re-elected 3 times now. What was their last real win? When did they score a W for Canada?

When did it even seem like they were really trying to score a W for Canada? 

Was forcing kids to vaccinate really ever supposed to be good for us? Really?

Edited January 18 by WestCanMan

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That's interesting. Effectively, DEI WAS started with good intentions then....

 

Ok.

The path to hell is frequently paved with liberal good intentions

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

What does generally not allow mean...is it or is it not....I applied for a civilian job within CFB Gagetown and those questions were asked...And it was not the only time this information was requested to provide....

The fact that they do request this info is telling, they in fact tell you in the job description who they are looking for...or who will be given preferential treatment.. And most Resumes that are actioned are vetted by computer, one needs to fill out those questions in order to make it past the screening...or your resume does not get vetted...

Internally i was required to fill out lots of admin paper work where they requested Age, gender, what were my pronouns i prefer to use...religion, etc...If I'm correct i think my yearly civilian job performance sheet it also requested this basic info...welcome to the 2020's baby...

I'm pretty sure i was asked those same questions on my security clearance sheet. looks like the government is not adhering to their own rules. On this form it asks for date of birth, your gender, and others....

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/tbs-sct/documents/forms/330-61-ssacf-en.pdf

Here is a job random description for a civilian employee job with DND. 

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/opportunities/government/self-declaring-government-canada-jobs.html

Below was taken from an random job I highlighted who the target audience was  in red....I guess you can highlight your race through self declare....maybe your laws are not for the government...

https://emploisfp-psjobs.cfp-psc.gc.ca/psrs-srfp/applicant/page1800?poster=2386296

Equity, diversity and inclusion

The Public Service of Canada is committed to building a skilled and diverse workforce that reflects the population it serves. We promote employment equity and encourage you to self-declare if you belong to one of the designated employment equity groups when you apply.

Learn more about diversity and inclusion in the public service.

Selection may be limited to members of the following employment equity groups: Indigenous (Aboriginal) peoples, persons with disabilities, visible minorities, and women.

Learn more about employment equity.

yeah...OK