Don't oppose changing the failing health care system in Canada on the basis of ideology.

[blackbird]

We have many people who oppose changing our failing health care system.   They give several reasons for their opposition:

1.  They are scared of any kind of dual system such as Germany has.  Therefore they oppose any kind of adding some private care services claiming it is done for profit and therefore it is somehow evil.

2.   They believe the NDP and union's claims that any private care is evil and therefore should be opposed.  They would rather keep our failing system at the expense of the lives of millions of Canadians.

3.   They think the only alternative is the American system which is a lie.  We don't have to copy the American system and that is not being suggested at all.

Don't be fooled by the ideological driven people who demand to keep our failing system.

Germany has one of the best systems in the world.

You can read about the system in Germany on a number of websites.  Just Google health care system in Germany.

"The German healthcare system is one of the most comprehensive and efficient in the world. Its foundations lie in principles of solidarity and universality, ensuring that all citizens and residents have access to necessary medical services."

The German Healthcare System Explained - Structure, Costs, and Benefits

 

Edited November 6, 2025 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

To left-learning types: France is pretty socialist, or at least was when I lived there.  2-tier healthcare provides for better care for those who can't pay.

The key to making this work, though, is a mindset of solving problems, making things more efficient and cheaper.  And, yes, it's very possible to do this without lowering wages or making the system worse.

 

[herbie]

This is a pretty silly selling point when far more than a supermajority of Canadians support our system of healthcare and not a single political party dares to oppose that.
While no one at all opposes fixing the things that must be fixed it must be pointed out that poll after poll has shown almost no one is in favour of any kind of user pay system.
For someone to attempt to paint objecting to people with money moving ahead in the line or receiving 'better' service than anyone else as an 'ideologue' is even more ridiculous than painting the entire system as leftist or socialist. I would suggest you look in the mirror and spot the outlier, the oddball, the ideologue in there. You are totally free to buy shares in any American health provider if you so choose to assuage your beliefs.

Meanwhile, spare us the need to read your multiple posts on the very same subject all the time. One can clarify and alter ones position within the same thread.

Edited November 6, 2025 by herbie

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

To left-learning types: France is pretty socialist, or at least was when I lived there.  2-tier healthcare provides for better care for those who can't pay.
 

 

This reality is fiercely denied by the "ideologues".   30% of healthcare in Canada is already private pay, and without more two tier options, there will continue to be a lack of capital investment in healthcare facilities/therapies.

Example:  Canada is the only G7 nation without a major proton therapy facility for precision cancer radiation treatment.  Canadian patients are sent elsewhere, mostly to the evil American system that has 46 proton therapy clinics in 31 states.

[suds]

9 minutes ago, herbie said:

This is a pretty silly selling point when far more than a supermajority of Canadians support our system of healthcare and not a single political party dares to oppose that.
While no one at all opposes fixing the things that must be fixed it must be pointed out that poll after poll has shown almost no one is in favour of any kind of user pay system.
For someone to attempt to paint objecting to people with money moving ahead in the line or receiving 'better' service than anyone else as an 'ideologue' is even more ridiculous than painting the entire system as leftist or socialist. I would suggest you look in the mirror and spot the outlier, the oddball, the ideologue in there. You are totally free to buy shares in any American health provider if you so choose to assuage your beliefs.

Meanwhile, spare us the need to read your multiple posts on the very same subject all the time. One can clarify and alter ones position within the same thread.

I take it this 'supermajority' are the ones who are lucky enough to even have a doctor? Because I can't see a single person who doesn't have one, supporting what's going on now. Amazon would do a better job of running the friggin healthcare system. At least politics and ideology would be kept out of it.

[Legato]

23 minutes ago, herbie said:

This is a pretty silly selling point when far more than a supermajority of Canadians support our system of healthcare and not a single political party dares to oppose that.
While no one at all opposes fixing the things that must be fixed it must be pointed out that poll after poll has shown almost no one is in favour of any kind of user pay system.
For someone to attempt to paint objecting to people with money moving ahead in the line or receiving 'better' service than anyone else as an 'ideologue' is even more ridiculous than painting the entire system as leftist or socialist. I would suggest you look in the mirror and spot the outlier, the oddball, the ideologue in there. You are totally free to buy shares in any American health provider if you so choose to assuage your beliefs.

Meanwhile, spare us the need to read your multiple posts on the very same subject all the time. One can clarify and alter ones position within the same thread.

Attitudes like yours are why we can't have nice things.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

To left-learning types: France is pretty socialist, or at least was when I lived there.  2-tier healthcare provides for better care for those who can't pay.

The key to making this work, though, is a mindset of solving problems, making things more efficient and cheaper.  And, yes, it's very possible to do this without lowering wages or making the system worse.

 

I think Canadians have been brainwashed in their support of our current healthcare in the same way many Americans have been brainwashed in their support of the second amendment.  There's no budging off of either of these positions.

[Nationalist]

47 minutes ago, Shady said:

I think Canadians have been brainwashed in their support of our current healthcare in the same way many Americans have been brainwashed in their support of the second amendment.  There's no budging off of either of these positions.

I have no complaints. Except that my doctor retired and now I have to use a local clinic, as there doesn't seem to be many doctors taking new patients. 

But my cardiologist is still just down the street. That's the important one to me right now.

Our Healthcare could certainly be better. I'd start with incetivising the creation of more doctors.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

But my cardiologist is still just down the street. That's the important one to me right now.

Mines a 4 hour drive away...double, triple or more even if I'm out at sea...

No fear!

[Nationalist]

32 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Mines a 4 hour drive away...double, triple or more even if I'm out at sea...

No fear!

4 hours. But a brisk walk...

[herbie]

2 hours ago, suds said:

I take it this 'supermajority' are the ones who are lucky enough to even have a doctor?

No its is the opinion almost ALL Canadians.
Don't try to nit pick a single issue and pretend it somehow represents a negation of an overall fact. To the point you insist that having a single doctor assigned personally to you is a necessity for health care. It;s 2025 and if I get sick when my doctor's on vacation or he's booked up the clinic can't offer another and I must go without treatment.
Or the lack of an MRI in a town of 1000 and you must travel to a bigger one means you have to go without.
Or that the private clinic that provides services the main system doesn't or provides overflow services without being able to charge extra means there is none at all.
Or the bullshit that if you had a heart attack or were in a serious accident you're gonna wait behind the lady with an upset tummy.

Everyone wants to fix the system only you whining outliers want to change it. Pick another windmill to tilt at.

[SpankyMcFarland]

I’m happy to listen to suggestions on how we expand our mixed system and I think Australia might offer a useful template. Like us they’re a massive country with a tiny population. By contrast, places like the Netherlands and Switzerland are micro-states where everything is close to everything else. We have to avoid the obvious pitfalls and make sure we keep a firm hand on how the markets operate. They are useful as long as they work for us. 

There’s a hospital in Ontario achieving truly impressive productivity on hip and knee replacements. Imagine specialized sites like this across the country. 

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.7054389

I’d say most people would be open to various models on funding. We should explore alternatives to assist what we have already. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[suds]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

Everyone wants to fix the system only you whining outliers want to change it. Pick another windmill to tilt at.

We have a very complex problem here, with simply too many people and not enough doctors. We had doctor shortages long before opening the floodgates for mass immigration which only made matters worse. I don't know enough or am smart enough to have all the answers and neither are you. All I'm hearing is that it's only going to get worse. I have absolutely no faith in government fixing anything, because they're the ones who got us into this mess in the first place. But maybe you can explain to me how you go about fixing this mess without changing something?