Grok's paper on why global climate change is likely natural

[User]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

None. You emit CO2 shipping it to China.

You completely missed the point. 

You want to brag about Ontario power, but what is gained in emission reductions if you ship coal off to be burned in China instead?

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Coal plants closing in Ontario, under a Liberal government as I recall.

Nope. Sorry.  Did you have any other lies you wanted to try out? 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, User said:

You completely missed the point. 

You want to brag about Ontario power, but what is gained in emission reductions if you ship coal off to be burned in China instead?

Nothing at all. We should be held every bit as liable as China for having dug it out of the ground in the first place.

CdnFox likes assigning credit, bragging that is, for Canada's emissions falling during Stephen Harper's government because of Stephen Harper's policies not Ontario's.

In any case credit should go to Harper for engineering the financial collapse and great recession - the real reason for the biggest drop in our emissions. Now we know the most effective measure is to collapse the economy.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

CdnFox likes assigning credit, bragging that is, for Canada's emissions falling during Stephen Harper's government because of Stephen Harper's policies not Ontario's.

 

You mean I like to point out the facts. As I pointed out to you earlier yours are wrong. You posted a series of statements from the cbc and i posted the actual facts which pointed out what you and they said was untrue.  You claimed they didn't go down till the recession and it was the recession that did it!! Yeah that's it! Never went down till then!!

Then after i proved you were full of crap you're suddenly like "oh ,... er... oh yeah they DID go down before that. but.. umm ... it was.... umm.... ONTARIO!!! Yeah!

But the entire amount of ontario coal plants shut down don't account for even a small percent of the reduction.  And those shutdowns took forever stretching into 2017 in the end, yet emissions shot up almost immediately under trudeau. 

Sorry kid.  The conservatives did more to reduce GHG than the liberals before OR after.  And that's not ontario in the slighest

 

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You claimed they didn't go down till the recession and it was the recession that did it!! Yeah that's it! Never went down till then!!

No I simply said when they went down it was partly due to Ontario shutting down coal plants.

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The conservatives did more to reduce GHG than the liberals before OR after.

Only by causing the banking collapse and great recession.

I mean sure have it your way, Stephen Harper was singlehandedly the greatest climate change activist the world has ever seen.

[gatomontes99]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

It really depends on the relative scrubbing technologies of the power plants.

Probably the shipping CO2 is a small fraction of that released by burning the coal and if the Chinese have some really advanced carbon capture in their plants, the emissions COULD be reduced.

Lmao...wow...the schilling for communists is just unashamed.

[User]

3 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Lmao...wow...the schilling for communists is just unashamed.

I mean, all we have to do is promise that in 20 years we will make some reductions and I guess they will love us too!

 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

No I simply said when they went down it was partly due to Ontario shutting down coal plants.

I'm afraid you did. Your initial claim was that it went down with the recession and as evidence you posted a cbc article which claimed there was no drop UNTIL the recession. No numbers just that claim as i recall. 

I posted real numbers, and they verified that there was a DRAMATIC drop beginning in the year after harper took over and it's far far larger than the shutting down of coal plants would account for. 

And in fact they kept getting shut down even into trudeau's time, the last one in 2017, yet trudeau's numbers kept skyrocketing until covid. 

So not only are you lying about what you said, you're also dead wrong about the coal plants 

Did you have anything else you wanted to bullshit your way out of shortly after saying it?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, User said:

I mean, all we have to do is promise that in 20 years we will make some reductions and I guess they will love us too!

 

And then in 20 years just say 'we DID make reductions.  Don't look, don't look, just trust us. we did.  Worked great. Best reductions ever.  We saved your life, seriously. The world.... poof! Ball of flame. But we came along and then wow. Saved. Anyway those conservatives want to put those big hairy spiders in  your garage, you ok with that?

[eyeball]

34 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I posted real numbers, and they verified that there was a DRAMATIC drop beginning in the year after harper took over and it's far far larger than the shutting down of coal plants would account for. 

You said Harper's modest GST tax rebate for emission reducing home improvements are why there was a dramatic drop in emissions. But you posted no numbers, just your breathless awe.

And how come Poilievre isn't making political campaign hay out of this remarkable historical achievement?

Pretty odd for someone who's dying for a carbon tax election wouldn't you say?

I'm surprised you haven't attributed the end of the great recession to the  stimulus Harper's GST rebate caused. Like a butterfly's wing flap triggering a hurricane.

Edited March 28 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You said Harper's modest GST tax rebate for emission reducing home improvements are why there was a dramatic drop in emissions. But you posted no numbers, just your breathless awe.

First off i said policies LIKE that.  At no point did i suggest it was the only thing. 

Second, says the guy who posted no numbers whatso ever for ANY of his claims. Yet i DID post numbers for mine. 

But it's nice to see you're still pleasantly neurotic over the issue  

 

Quote

 

And how come Poilievre isn't making political campaign hay out of this remarkable historical achievement?

 

 

He wasn't the prime minister. .He can't claim responsibility for it. 

Quote

Pretty odd for someone who's dying for a carbon tax election wouldn't you say?

LOL no, i wouldn't and nor would anyone else who isn't a partisan liberal hack  

I get that carney tried to take credit for a financial mess the conservatives cleaned up when he had diddly to do with it but Conservatives aren't liberals, they tend to tell the truth   

Edited March 28 by CdnFox

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

First off i said policies LIKE that.  At no point did i suggest it was the only thing. 

But wait, there's more?

How many more and how many mega tonnes of CO2 were attributed to each one?

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Second, says the guy who posted no numbers whatso ever for ANY of his claims. Yet i DID post numbers for mine. 

Numbers like this you mean?

Closing coal plants in Ontario significantly reduced carbon emissions, leading to a 17% decrease in emissions. 

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

He wasn't the prime minister. .He can't claim responsibility for it. 

Yabut Ike you he can certainly bask in Harper's glow especially when explaining how a tax cut aimed at reducing CO2 actually succeeded where raising taxes failed. It's a wonder PP hasn't been pitching this miraculous turn of common sense since day one of his axe the tax shtick.

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL no, i wouldn't and nor would anyone else who isn't a partisan liberal hack

I get that carney tried to take credit for a financial mess the conservatives cleaned up when he had diddly to do with it but Conservatives aren't liberals, they tend to tell the truth

And why hasn't PP made hay with this too?

It's no wonder he's turning out to be such a loser.

Edited March 28 by eyeball

[Nationalist]

On 3/26/2025 at 7:30 PM, Michael Hardner said:

No, it's science.  They look at data, test hypothesis, correct their formulas... all of this...

And then warp the data to support their desired outcome.

[Nationalist]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nothing at all. We should be held every bit as liable as China for having dug it out of the ground in the first place.

CdnFox likes assigning credit, bragging that is, for Canada's emissions falling during Stephen Harper's government because of Stephen Harper's policies not Ontario's.

In any case credit should go to Harper for engineering the financial collapse and great recession - the real reason for the biggest drop in our emissions. Now we know the most effective measure is to collapse the economy.

The climate change religion. These insane people would destroy civilization in order to meet their goals...and with no more substantial proof but a bunch of "could"s. 

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

The climate change religion. These insane people would destroy civilization in order to meet their goals...and with no more substantial proof but a bunch of "could"s. 

I feel like, as more and more people catch on to the climate scam, they're trying to walk back some of the hysteria now.  I'm hearing and seeing more of the phrase "climate variability".

That the climate varies, is apparently, an epiphany.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I feel like, as more and more people catch on to the climate scam, they're trying to walk back some of the hysteria now.  I'm hearing and seeing more of the phrase "climate variability".

That the climate varies, is apparently, an epiphany.

These people just don't seem to be happy unless they're terrified.

[Legato]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I feel like, as more and more people catch on to the climate scam, they're trying to walk back some of the hysteria now.  I'm hearing and seeing more of the phrase "climate variability".

That the climate varies, is apparently, an epiphany.

If you want to see the climate devil's brigade in action, Google 'Corporate Knights Climate'.

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And then warp the data to support their desired outcome.

Hmmm... falsifying data is difficult to do when the original data is open and available.  Also there are a large number of data points and sources that would have to be changed.  Temperature data over time comes from a very large number of sources, over time, from many countries and teams.

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

But wait, there's more?

Obviously.  But you knew that. 

Quote

How many more and how many mega tonnes of CO2 were attributed to each one?

A lot

Quote

 

Numbers like this you mean?

Closing coal plants in Ontario significantly reduced carbon emissions, leading to a 17% decrease in emissions. 

 

LOL well numbers like that prove more about how you're a liar than about carbon reduction.  You're suggesting it's a 17 percent reduction for canada. During harper's time. Which is why you included no cite. 

But it was 17 percent GROSS reduction for ONTARIO only. Between about 2006 and 2017, not during harper's time.  AND it doesn't account for the NEW power plants they brought on which still burn fossil fuel and still emit. Those burn natural gas and such and are much MORE efficient but... that comes off the 17 percent and they also had to increase production of power becuase of the growing population. 

So.  Your number was a lie.  It is not a canadian reduction, it is not even an ontario Net reduction, and it was not during the harper years exclusively. 

Almost all provinces went down during harper.  Alberta not so much, and bc stayed about the same despite being the only one with a carbon tax, but most provinces and in fact all of canada went down during harper.  It wasn't ontario coal plants. 

 

Sooooo...    That's strike three for you on this one kiddo, every time you try to lie your way out of it you look stupid.   

 

Quote

Yabut Ike you he can certainly bask in Harper's glow especially when explaining how a tax cut aimed at reducing CO2 actually succeeded where raising taxes failed. It's a wonder PP hasn't been pitching this miraculous turn of common sense since day one of his axe the tax shtick.

I'm sure to a liberal supporter like yourself it makes perfect sense to try to steal someone else's accomplishments.  Carney is, he's trying to take credit for harper's work and people are laughing at him. 

 

Quote

And why hasn't PP made hay with this too?

uhhhh he did.  Many people including him have pointed out that he's lying about that.  You probably didn't notice because cbc doesn't print a lot of stories like that. Just one more reason to defund them. 

Quote

It's no wonder he's turning out to be such a loser.

Sure kid.   See you on election day   

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

 with no more substantial proof ...

You have a set of effects, combined with a causal link that can be reproduced in any lab.

That should remove reasonable doubt, especially since the alternate explanations have all failed.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

I'm sure to a liberal supporter like yourself it makes perfect sense to try to steal someone else's accomplishments.  Carney is, he's trying to take credit for harper's work and people are laughing at him.

WTF are you babbling about now?

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

The climate change religion. These insane people would destroy civilization in order to meet their goals...and with no more substantial proof but a bunch of "could"s. 

and just look at @eyeball trying to defend his positon with lies.  He can't stand the simple fact that we did more to reduce GHG's under harper than we ever did under the liberals and so he tries t or 3 separate lies to try to get around that instead of facing the simple truth.   Oh it was the recession! no, it  started before the recession and continued. Oh it was OIL PLANTS!  No, they didn't finish closing till long after he was gone and their reductions don't add up to the amount reduced by canada and most provinces reduced their emissions.   Ohh.. well... it must be ANYTHING but the truth!!!

People like him would literally rather watch our society burn than face simple truths. He and people like him will NEVER be able to change their minds as new information comes out, they will NEVER look at facts, they will always be prepared to die rather than give up their Holy Order of Climate Panic

I mean look at him go!   For 10 years they said you can TAX climate change away  

these are not rational people. 

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You have a set of effects, combined with a causal link that can be reproduced in any lab.

That should remove reasonable doubt, especially since the alternate explanations have all failed.

So produce the results from the lab that's done this and proved that it's all real and we can take a look at it

Once again the climate panic people are making strong claims about science without providing any science. It's become a running joke

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

WTF are you babbling about now?

I was addressing what you said.  It's hilarious that when you hear your own issues spoken back to you it sounds like babble tho    LOLOL you sound that way to the rest of us too  

[User]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You have a set of effects, combined with a causal link that can be reproduced in any lab.

That should remove reasonable doubt, especially since the alternate explanations have all failed.

Remove all doubt of what exactly?

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

and just look at @eyeball trying to defend his positon with lies. 

Little known fact: "eyeball" is the ancient Algonquin word for "retarded crap that they said on CBC." 

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You have a set of effects, combined with a causal link that can be reproduced in any lab.

That should remove reasonable doubt, especially since the alternate explanations have all failed.

Failed? So you're trying to say that only man's use of carbon is warming the planetary climate?