BeaverFever Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 (edited) On 2/25/2025 at 3:49 PM, Dougie93 said: except Eastern Canadians still love driving too much all these public transit scams are white elephants because in actual fact, we prefer driving everywhere never mind high speed rail if the government actually followed what the people want there would be a toll highway between Toronto & Montreal with no speed limit ; Canadian Autobahn it would be a cash cow rather than just another leftist boondoggle You can’t drink booze, enjoy a hot meal, watch a movie and take a nap while driving…or at least you shouldn’t. I know lots of people who take the current via on the Toronto-Ottawa route. It will work as long as it’s still cheaper than flying and more convenient than having to be at the airport 90 minutes before departure and going through security If they try to make it like 407ETR or the initial UP express where you have to pay with your life savings and you left nut it will be a right wing boondoggle. Otherwise probably will be ok. But it’s still not going to happen. Edited March 3 by BeaverFever Quote
herbie Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 Why build rail when we can sell them 100,000 cars to get there, Can't even pee in a bottle and toss it our the window on a train. And it will take the power of 62,000 extra Suns to run a train that far too! Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 (edited) Okay back to the business of governing, do you think this will actually get built or will this be another end of term blue sky project surely to be ditched by the next government? This could really be Canada’s time. Let’s actually build this thing. Imagine Toronto to Montreal in 3 hours. Suddenly Quebec is in your living room on weekends. Love it. I would literally learn French properly and go back and forth regularly. This is the real infrastructure Canada needs, uniting the two Canadas for good. Now that’s sovereignty. Edited March 3 by Zeitgeist Quote
500channelsurfer Posted March 3 Author Report Posted March 3 8 hours ago, herbie said: Why build rail when we can sell them 100,000 cars to get there The purpose of this project is not to replace existing car trips, or to add more cars to already congested highways. This project is for improving efficiency along this route. First, there are many who regularly fly this corridor. It will help alleviate airport congestion. It is also for those that would like to travel more often for business or leisure, which will improve and help tie the economies along its route. It is also for those who, with an aging population, will soon prefer train to driving due to becoming elderly. 6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: do you think this will actually get built Only if the costs and politics are gotten right. 6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: This is the real infrastructure Canada needs, uniting the two Canadas for good. Now that’s sovereignty. No, part of getting the politics right is to also invest in similar projects in Western Canada. I am sure, just as examples, a high speed Calgary-Edmonton rail link would get used, or a Downtown-Vancouver - to - Downtown Victoria improved BC Ferry service would. And the rail link should indeed of course go well past Toronto, if not to Windsor then at least to Hamilton for sure. Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 15 hours ago, 500channelsurfer said: Yes, many people will still drive between these cities. But many people also fly between them. A high speed rail system should be able to provide the same transit at less cost and an equal or less amount of time, taking into consideration waiting times at airports and transport times to and from airports. Being optimistic, the cost of this project implies the new rail system would have its own dedicated track, so the Via delays due to track sharing should also be eliminated. it's $4 billion CAD just to "study" high speed rail there is no actual contract here to build high speed rail this is just another Liberal Party of Canada handout to entrenched interests as a bridge to nowhere Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 14 hours ago, BeaverFever said: But it’s still not going to happen. the Liberals say we are in an existential crisis the collapse of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization while facing literal "invasion" by the United States perhaps not the best time to be blowing $4 billion CAD to "study" high speed rail Canada could after all purchase a nuclear fast attack submarine from BAE Systems for that price Quote
herbie Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 7 hours ago, 500channelsurfer said: The purpose of this project is not to replace existing car trips, or to add more cars to already congested highways. This project is for improving efficiency along this route. My last post was obviously sarcasm. Even if consideration for high speed was not involved as dedicated transit track along this corridor should have been done 40 years ago. Opposing it today is sheer blockhead-edness. Dougie's partly right in his comment. We tend on every damn project to spend an entire decade 'studying' projects until that alone gobbles up the original budget, so IF anything proceeds it's an order of magnitude more. The damn Port Mann bridge alone cost more than the province's entire budget was in the 1970s. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 (edited) 9 hours ago, 500channelsurfer said: The purpose of this project is not to replace existing car trips, or to add more cars to already congested highways. This project is for improving efficiency along this route. First, there are many who regularly fly this corridor. It will help alleviate airport congestion. It is also for those that would like to travel more often for business or leisure, which will improve and help tie the economies along its route. It is also for those who, with an aging population, will soon prefer train to driving due to becoming elderly. Only if the costs and politics are gotten right. No, part of getting the politics right is to also invest in similar projects in Western Canada. I am sure, just as examples, a high speed Calgary-Edmonton rail link would get used, or a Downtown-Vancouver - to - Downtown Victoria improved BC Ferry service would. And the rail link should indeed of course go well past Toronto, if not to Windsor then at least to Hamilton for sure. The problem with HSR in the West is that since it wouldn’t be interprovincial it’s not very federal, and the time it would take on HSR to travel between Vancouver and Calgary, on an interprovincial train, would be long enough to keep most travellers using planes. I do think Calgary to Edmonton is a no brainer, and I’m sure it could get some federal funding Repeated studies have shown that the Quebec-Windsor corridor is the most financially viable one for HSR, especially Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. Quebec City is an obvious tourist destination. Extending to Kitchener-Waterloo has a clear business case. Hamilton does too, but that would be a separate spur that could eventually connect to Niagara and Buffalo. It’s relatively cheap to extend from K-W through London to Windsor because the land is flat and the existing corridors are straight, making high speeds possible without expensive diversions. Edited March 3 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 18 hours ago, BeaverFever said: If they try to make it like 407ETR WTF I love the 407ETR; going 149 Km/h in the slow lanes, while the OPP is passing me on the left, the closest thing Canada has to an Autobahn, happy to pay the premium therein Quote
BeaverFever Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 5 hours ago, Dougie93 said: the Liberals say we are in an existential crisis the collapse of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization while facing literal "invasion" by the United States perhaps not the best time to be blowing $4 billion CAD to "study" high speed rail Canada could after all purchase a nuclear fast attack submarine from BAE Systems for that price Like I said probably a tripwire policy but your criticism speaks to the timing of the proposal rather than the quality of it. Quote
BeaverFever Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: WTF I love the 407ETR; going 149 Km/h in the slow lanes, while the OPP is passing me on the left, the closest thing Canada has to an Autobahn, happy to pay the premium therein Yeah it’s fun to drive but the price is outrageous. Pre-pandemic I would use it maybe once or twice a week, monthly bill was regularly $200-$300. Then I was among the fortunate few who qualified for an “unlimited rush hour driving” promo for $60/month. So I took it for the 4 days a week that I commuted to the office. Monthly bills would show tolls of around $800 were accumulated and then credited off, alongside the monthly $60 fee. And that is with a transponder. Fortunately since the start of covid I work from home 100% of the time. Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 Just now, BeaverFever said: Like I said probably a tripwire policy but your criticism speaks to the timing of the proposal rather than the quality of it. if I thought the Laurentian Elite were capable of delivering high speed rail, for Chinese prices that's 16 billion for the whole thing built from Windsor to Quebec, I might advocate for it, but since I understand the limitations of governance in Canada, I know that is a pipe dream moreover, in the face of the American Fenians at the gates, threatening to overthrow the British Crown in North America, I would of course rather expend those funds downrange to BAE Systems at Barrow-in-Furness, to purchase four Astute type Ship Submersible Nuclear Fast Attack Submarines; the ultimate arm of decision SSN-880 HMCS Algonquin SSN-881 HMCS Athabaskan SSN-882 HMCS Annapolis SSN-883 HMCS Assiniboine he who rules the waves rules the world Quote
Army Guy Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 6 hours ago, herbie said: My last post was obviously sarcasm. Even if consideration for high speed was not involved as dedicated transit track along this corridor should have been done 40 years ago. Opposing it today is sheer blockhead-edness. Dougie's partly right in his comment. We tend on every damn project to spend an entire decade 'studying' projects until that alone gobbles up the original budget, so IF anything proceeds it's an order of magnitude more. The damn Port Mann bridge alone cost more than the province's entire budget was in the 1970s. If you take a look at other high speed rail projects in the US , europe the final bill is going to exceed more than 120 bil for this short bit of track...in todays dollars zip into the future and this along with everything the government spends on will cost double that...for 120 bil we could fix health care....and a few more issues....its not a matter of blockheadedness it is a matter of priorities. riding the rails with your hair on fire is not one of them at least not today... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: If you take a look at other high speed rail projects in the US , europe the final bill is going to exceed more than 120 bil for this short bit of track...in todays dollars zip into the future and this along with everything the government spends on will cost double that...for 120 bil we could fix health care....and a few more issues....its not a matter of blockheadedness it is a matter of priorities. riding the rails with your hair on fire is not one of them at least not today... We can walk and chew gum. 1% GST = $6 billion in revenue* 2% increase in GST = 20 years to pay off the cost of high speed rail? Who can say no? We already had 7% GST for many years. * https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/case-higher-gst Edited March 4 by TreeBeard Quote
August1991 Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 On 2/25/2025 at 10:56 PM, TreeBeard said: Canada is the only G7 country not to have high-speed rail. It’s about time. Clueless. === Canada, unlike France, has two official federal languages. We Canadiians are like America: Quebec is sovereign. Quote
ExFlyer Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 On 3/2/2025 at 10:17 PM, BeaverFever said: You can’t drink booze, enjoy a hot meal, watch a movie and take a nap while driving…or at least you shouldn’t. I know lots of people who take the current via on the Toronto-Ottawa route. It will work as long as it’s still cheaper than flying and more convenient than having to be at the airport 90 minutes before departure and going through security If they try to make it like 407ETR or the initial UP express where you have to pay with your life savings and you left nut it will be a right wing boondoggle. Otherwise probably will be ok. But it’s still not going to happen. You surely don't believe you can make it from Toronto to Montreal (or further) faster than driving or flying with the route they picked and the number of stops they will make? LOL I used to take the VIA train from Ottawa to Montreal quite regularly but stopped. We went back to driving. The cost of the train and all the delays did not make it economically or logistically feasible any more. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
PIK Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Trudeau did this to get the Cons to go against it. And this is the last chance for the libs to transfer billions to SCN Lavalin before they fall. But yet people will fall for it. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Army Guy Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 On 3/3/2025 at 9:53 PM, TreeBeard said: We can walk and chew gum. 1% GST = $6 billion in revenue* 2% increase in GST = 20 years to pay off the cost of high speed rail? Who can say no? We already had 7% GST for many years. * https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/case-higher-gst If your liberal math is correct explain to me why so many federal departments are under funded....apparently we as a nation can not walk and chew gum.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: If your liberal math is correct explain to me why so many federal departments are under funded....apparently we as a nation can not walk and chew gum.... It was math from a rightwing think-tank. Quote
ExFlyer Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 On 3/3/2025 at 12:42 AM, Zeitgeist said: Okay back to the business of governing, do you think this will actually get built or will this be another end of term blue sky project surely to be ditched by the next government? This could really be Canada’s time. Let’s actually build this thing. Imagine Toronto to Montreal in 3 hours. Suddenly Quebec is in your living room on weekends. Love it. I would literally learn French properly and go back and forth regularly. This is the real infrastructure Canada needs, uniting the two Canadas for good. Now that’s sovereignty. No, it will never be built. Are you serious??? This has or is little or nothing for Canada. It is for GTA to MTL or Quebec city. There is a lot more and far more important things needed in Canada than a commuter train between TO and MTL. Now this is all BS and will never be built. 1 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Army Guy Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 15 hours ago, TreeBeard said: It was math from a rightwing think-tank. Doesn't matter where it came from, you guys on the left think that we can continue to print money on a whim for any project, it pretty much grows on trees on the west lawn....and yet so much of the federal government is smoking and in most cases on fire due to lack of funding how does the left explain that....we don't need some high speed rail, when our healthcare system is a smoking hole, here in NB we have had 6 people die in waiting rooms waiting to see a doctor.... This is why Canadians want a change in government because of this type of spending... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted March 7 Report Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: This is why Canadians want a change in government because of this type of spending... why are the polls back in the Lib’s favour? Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 14 hours ago, ExFlyer said: No, it will never be built. Are you serious??? This has or is little or nothing for Canada. It is for GTA to MTL or Quebec city. There is a lot more and far more important things needed in Canada than a commuter train between TO and MTL. Now this is all BS and will never be built. Then you don’t appreciate how Canada was formed. The success of Canada was always about the union of the Canadas, English and French. The ideal was always a completely mixed bicultural Canada. There’s a special relationship between Quebec and Ontario. It was all New France going back to the Jesuit missionaries at Ste. Marie Among the Hurons. The bullet train unties and strengthen the connections between the most populous, oldest major settlements in Canada. It’s actually culturally significant. Alberta can do one, as well, maybe eventually to Vancouver. In a proper economic union with the U.S., we could connect to Buffalo and Detroit. It doesn’t make sense to do a bullet train across the country. Planes are more efficient at those distances. Quote
ExFlyer Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Then you don’t appreciate how Canada was formed. The success of Canada was always about the union of the Canadas, English and French. The ideal was always a completely mixed bicultural Canada. There’s a special relationship between Quebec and Ontario. It was all New France going back to the Jesuit missionaries at Ste. Marie Among the Hurons. The bullet train unties and strengthen the connections between the most populous, oldest major settlements in Canada. It’s actually culturally significant. Alberta can do one, as well, maybe eventually to Vancouver. In a proper economic union with the U.S., we could connect to Buffalo and Detroit. It doesn’t make sense to do a bullet train across the country. Planes are more efficient at those distances. The topic is a gazzilion dollar train between Toronto and Quebec city. I am saying there is a lot more to this country than Toronto and 2 Quebec cities but it is always GTA to MTL. The rest of the country does not matter LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: The topic is a gazzilion dollar train between Toronto and Quebec city. I am saying there is a lot more to this country than Toronto and 2 Quebec cities but it is always GTA to MTL. The rest of the country does not matter LOL The rest of the country matters very much, but don’t forget that the Quebec-Windsor corridor is one of the most significant economic zones in the West after the Boston-Washington corridor. We have to consolidate the strength of our wealth-generating areas by connecting them. In fact, it’s part of our nation-building because it enhances the movement of people, goods and services, just like removing interprovincial trade barriers. Otherwise we continue to orient ourselves south, economically, culturally, and perhaps eventually politically, but Canada would be overpowered by Washington in any political union. Think of it this way: Let’s become as unified and strong as we can as a country before we seriously consider further economic union and integration with the U.S. Further connecting Canada West and East, Ontario and Quebec, creates a significant economic and political bulwark against foreign influence. The Maritimes are similarly bicultural. The West can benefit from this large market to the east through new east-flowing pipelines. It can also draw talent from the well-educated and highly skilled workforces of central Canada. I would also suggest greater union between Alberta and BC through more resource and transport infrastructure, as well as removing trade barriers, to further unify these regions which can be very different politically. Greater union neutralizes the left and right-wing political extremes. Otherwise Alberta remains oriented towards and dependent on Texas while BC continues down the path of orientation towards Seattle and Cascadia. The West should be thinking about exporting resources towards Pacific Rim countries as well as eastern markets in Canada and domestic refining, including for export purposes to markets in Europe. All of this east-west oriented trade puts the country on more solid footing and makes us less dependent on the U.S. It gives us far more bargaining chips in trade negotiations. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
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